Halti For Training?

[Simply Grand]

As long as a head collar is introduced in a way that makes it as positive an experience as possible for the dog, such as explained by skip above, it shouldn't be any more of a 'constant aversive' than a flat collar and lead.

I don't agree at all that they are for people who want to manage, not train their dog, they are a tool that can be uses to manage a dog while you train it. If introduced and used properly the dog can very quickly learn where it needs to be to avoid feeling pressure on its head from the head collar. As long as the handler is quick and consistent in stopping/applying pressure when the dog tries to move out of position and in relieving the pressure (and I tend to give a treat reward as well) when the dog is in position next to you, i find head collars very effective on strong dogs that are inclined to pull or lunge. Yes you can achieve the same thing with a dog on a flat collar as long as you are strong enough to prevent the dog ever achieving the reward of getting towards where it wants to go when it tries to pull, but a head collar allows someone with less strength to keep hold of a dog with more strength.

I don't really think it should be necessary for a whole class of dogs just learning obedience stuff to wear them, and I would be very wary of exactly how they are wanting you to use them, and chucking a head collar on a dog that has never worn one, clipping the lead on and expecting it to immediately start learning new things seems like it wouldn't be very effective...

If I was happy with everything else about the training school though, and had the time to introduce the head collar properly and use it only as a tool to show the dog what position I want it to be in so I can use other techniques to teach it what else I want it to do, I woul probably be ok with it.

BTW, I haven't found the need to use head collars on my dogs but my training with all of them started as baby puppies (plus two of them are small) so strength wasn't an issue, I've only use them working with other dogs, and certainly not with every other dog.

[skip]

So what happened Poodle wrangler?

Interested as I go to a few clubs locally due to a nervy kelpie who needs all the socialising she can get.

[YvonneM]

I have next to zero experience with the "correct" collar for training but having said that I joined my local kennel/obedience club because like Skip my 8 month old Maltese was nervy around other dogs and needed to learn that other dogs were not scary. My objective was that if nothing else was achieved except he learned to be calmer and less nervous around other dogs then I was happy. My club had no requirements except that they do not allow harnesses for classes. My boy pulled like crazy when walking on his harness so much that he was practically walking on his hind legs. Trainer suggested a Martingdale collar which made no difference at all. They then suggested a Halti - I understand that initially my boy didn't like the feel of it and he has a short snout, so probably not the most comfortable thing to wear - but what a difference it made almost immediately! He's been using it for about 6 weeks now and now regular walks are back to Martingdale collars - so I think a Halti has been a helpful tool in my case.

Not sure I like the idea of a training club saying its compulsory though - the trainers at my club were helpful in helping me look at options.

Edited for spelling

Edited November 3, 2013 by YvonneM

[Flippy Dog]

If you are around the JB area you can also consider the club in Milton, I don't know if they prefer their first time beginners to do the first twelve weeks in a halti like the club I think you are referring to in our area. I did the beginner class there but only for four weeks and they did a lot of talk about the halti and how to introduce it (much as above posts have explained). They also appeared open to individual peoples requests not to use it, for example the pug in the class and the teeny dog with such a teeny muzzle the black dog halti provided by the club was still too big :)

My boy sort of accepted it but I was looking forward to not using it, personal preference. I'd done a little obedience with clubs in the past so while I'm no expert, at least I had the basics. I kind of assumed given that the beginners in my group were mostly first time puppy owners whose pups were very boisterous and largely had no training whatsoever, that the halti was a bit more for security as the grounds are not fenced. Oh, and it also clipped onto the flat collar so not sure how other styles are attached but I just assumed all must attached to the flat collar, specially given my boy scraped his off a number of times.

Anyway, not for or against but I think the club are more flexible and hopefully you have had a good response to your request not to use it, or have already learned that Milton has a Sunday training session. Good luck.

[kelpiecuddles]

Poodle Wrangler is that the one at the showground? I used to train there and haltis were a rarity then...

[Flippy Dog]

The one at the show ground is the one I know of that require haltis for the first twelve week beginners classes.

Their website also talks about it I think.

[kelpiecuddles]

Wow, that's a change from when I trained my kelpie there. She started out in the beginners class and by 14 weeks she was working in the advanced class(took some convincing but in the end they gave her permission) Back then haltis weren't very common at all there, a few around but everyone started out on flat collars. I would have told them to stick it if I had been told she would have had to wear a halti. Seems odd to me given they do agility, etc there as well.

[Flippy Dog]

I'm glad it's only for beginners and once you pass beginners you can put it away and use flat collars if you prefer.

Mind you, my pup at the time was more focused, or maybe it was me that was more focused.

Not sure my whippet baby would accept it.

Anyway, I've heard the club in Milton is very nice so maybe that's an alternative for Poodle Wrangler :)

[Poodle wrangler]

Sorry, wasn't back sooner...

Yes, it's the one at Nowra Showground.

No classes until next year, so can't give you much of an update, sorry.

To be fair, the info I have is off the website/ Facebook, rather than a one-on-one chat to any of the trainers.

In the meantime, am taking pup to Puppy preschool at South Nowra Vet.

Is helpful for the socialising.

Rufus is a bit timid with other dogs.

Not fussed by ducks and ponies, though ... go figure?

[Agility Dogs]

I know this is an old topic, but I've been thinking about it a lot in the context of our club where we have inflexible rules on some things. (Largely imposed by our national body.)

One of the problems with a training club is that the instructors are members who give freely of their time to help others - in many (most?) cases this means they don't have the time or inclination to learn a variety of tools or methods. They are applying the method they have used on their dogs to their teaching.

This contrasts to professionals who's job it is to understand a variety of tools and deal with a variety of dogs.

I'm not saying in a perfect world that all club instructors shouldn't be able to use a variety of tools, I'm just saying that in reality they can't, but the clubs need them in order to continue operating. For this reason clubs (or at least the clubs I instruct at) tend to adopt a one size fits all approach. Doesn't work for everyone, but is manageable from the club's perspective.

A good example of this is handling in agility. Most SEQ ADAA clubs teach Greg Derrett exclusively because that's what we've all been taught. At our club there are two of us who have an understanding of other handling systems, the effort to upskill everyone to understand APHS or Susan Garrett's new system would be massive/unworkable so for the time being we stick to what we know. Greg's system is not suited to all people, but........

I have recommended people look at other venues when our methods don't suit them or their dog. It's all about what we can do with limited numbers of people and knowledge.

Maybe that's the club's motivation?

[Staff'n'Toller]

I know this is an old topic, but I've been thinking about it a lot in the context of our club where we have inflexible rules on some things. (Largely imposed by our national body.)

One of the problems with a training club is that the instructors are members who give freely of their time to help others - in many (most?) cases this means they don't have the time or inclination to learn a variety of tools or methods. They are applying the method they have used on their dogs to their teaching.

This contrasts to professionals who's job it is to understand a variety of tools and deal with a variety of dogs.

I'm not saying in a perfect world that all club instructors shouldn't be able to use a variety of tools, I'm just saying that in reality they can't, but the clubs need them in order to continue operating. For this reason clubs (or at least the clubs I instruct at) tend to adopt a one size fits all approach. Doesn't work for everyone, but is manageable from the club's perspective.

A good example of this is handling in agility. Most SEQ ADAA clubs teach Greg Derrett exclusively because that's what we've all been taught. At our club there are two of us who have an understanding of other handling systems, the effort to upskill everyone to understand APHS or Susan Garrett's new system would be massive/unworkable so for the time being we stick to what we know. Greg's system is not suited to all people, but........

I have recommended people look at other venues when our methods don't suit them or their dog. It's all about what we can do with limited numbers of people and knowledge.

Maybe that's the club's motivation?

I have heard of several clubs in Vic recently sending trainers to various seminars/conferences in lieu of paying wages.

You could also suggest having other professionals coming to do in-house information sessions, occasionally on how to introduce haltis safely and positively, for example.

[Agility Dogs]

I know this is an old topic, but I've been thinking about it a lot in the context of our club where we have inflexible rules on some things. (Largely imposed by our national body.)

One of the problems with a training club is that the instructors are members who give freely of their time to help others - in many (most?) cases this means they don't have the time or inclination to learn a variety of tools or methods. They are applying the method they have used on their dogs to their teaching.

This contrasts to professionals who's job it is to understand a variety of tools and deal with a variety of dogs.

I'm not saying in a perfect world that all club instructors shouldn't be able to use a variety of tools, I'm just saying that in reality they can't, but the clubs need them in order to continue operating. For this reason clubs (or at least the clubs I instruct at) tend to adopt a one size fits all approach. Doesn't work for everyone, but is manageable from the club's perspective.

A good example of this is handling in agility. Most SEQ ADAA clubs teach Greg Derrett exclusively because that's what we've all been taught. At our club there are two of us who have an understanding of other handling systems, the effort to upskill everyone to understand APHS or Susan Garrett's new system would be massive/unworkable so for the time being we stick to what we know. Greg's system is not suited to all people, but........

I have recommended people look at other venues when our methods don't suit them or their dog. It's all about what we can do with limited numbers of people and knowledge.

Maybe that's the club's motivation?

I have heard of several clubs in Vic recently sending trainers to various seminars/conferences in lieu of paying wages.

You could also suggest having other professionals coming to do in-house information sessions, occasionally on how to introduce haltis safely and positively, for example.

We do both those things. :) Although wages - LOL!!

Just looking at what might be the motivation.

[Kavik]

I'm probably one of the few people at my club still using GD handling lol - everyone else seems to have jumped ship!