Cleo Just Scared Me So Much!

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Thanks guys. I just fell asleep on the bed with a migraine and woke up out of it and sort of hoped it was a bad dream.

Nope. Still have a big empty crate staring at me. I wish I could hug her again, the next 12 hours until I see her again will go so slow.

[Poodle wrangler]

Oh poor you. I hope Cleo recovers soon.

On the bloat topic...I never knew bloat was a dog thing, I relate bloat to cows and sheep. What causes it in dogs?

No-one's 100% sure.

I recently lost our standard poodle to bloat.

Spoke to an older breeder from Poodle Club who said one of hers bloated on an empty stomach!

Usual recommended precautions are:

1. Don't raise food bowl (USED to be thought to prevent bloat, but a study showed the opposite)

2. Limit exercise after meals

3. Consider 2 smaller meals/ day vs. 1 larger meal.

4. Don't allow dog to guzzle food.

Take home message:

If unsure, get dog to vet asap and phone ahead to say you suspect bloat.

Is emergency. Surgery asap may be needed.

The gas itself isn't the problem.

It's how the gas and possible twisted stomach affects blood flow: Cuts it off, so parts of digestive system start to die and dog goes into shock ---> dies.

[Dame Aussie]

I think the vet saying no apparent signs is a worry ,those signs can certainly be bloat typical .

Bloat can be a scary issue & some dogs show no apparent signs to varying signs & those symptons could be a sign of bloat or simple gas /belly ache not something i would rule out in another scenario.

Bloat can be a silient killer & often the under estimated signs are to late especially in the evenings.

Our last dog who died of bloat played with is teddy & walked into the vet to cheerfully greet everyone but we new he wasn't right & bloat was the obvious choice.

He had twisted beyond help & even the vets where amazed to see him but not chocked .

owning bloat breeds we now that signs aren't text book

I agree. What you have described sounds a lot like bloat symptoms so just be careful. Sounds like she probably just had some gas though.

ETA: Just read the last few posts, poor girl, all the best for a quick recovery x

Edited October 17, 2013 by Aussie3

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Cleo is home! So it's scary that her symptoms were bloat-like but i'm thinking must have been a big stone hurting her on it's way out. The vet showed me her ultrasound and said she has a lovely liver and great kidneys so i'm sure if there was a stomach issue I would have been told. Seeing the stones on screen was scary, they looked bigger on the ultrasound than real life (but had measurements on screen, so I knew how big they were).

So she has to keep the cone on because her vulva is swollen (probably from all the licking she did, and she still wants to do). And she's on AB's as well.

The next week will involve me chasing her to collect pee and then her going back under next week for stone removal.

My poor baby, who is very independent and not a smoocher, just laid down over my legs on the bed, like she knew that would stop me leaving again. It looked bloody uncomfortable for her so I pulled my legs out and crossed them and she watched me to make sure I stayed next to her. Precious little thing.

So glad I can come on here and talk to other dog people who understand how I can be so worried, it's reassuring.

[RiverStar-Aura]

I wish Cleo a speedy recovery! Could the simple fact she's been drinking excess amounts of water cause the diluted urine?

Hope she starts picking up soon.

[Tassie]

So glad to read your update - was just about to ask how Cleo is. Sounds like you're right on top of it now - and she should be feeling better really soon. Enjoy the smooching while you get it. :)

[Dame Aussie]

Good to hear she's home, I know how it feels, you just wish you could make it go away for them Poor muchkin.

[dotdashdot]

I wish Cleo a speedy recovery! Could the simple fact she's been drinking excess amounts of water cause the diluted urine?

Hope she starts picking up soon.

Vet didn't seem to think so, not to mention when she wet the bed, it was so clear and scentless, that we didn't actually think it was urine. I put my hand in it and smelt my hand, and stuck my head over the bed, no smell! Yet the excessive drinking started after that.

We gave her some cone-free time this afternoon. She was not interested in licking herself at all while outside, and was loving it. I've put it back on though because in the crate she was licking her flank...and that could easily lead to further down.

I'm going to take her to work tomorrow, no cone but I will put some bitch pants on her if needed so she can't access down there.

I'm so glad that her personality is back to normal though :) YAY!

[persephone]

:) Glad she's home and more comfortable.

[LisaCC]

Glad she is feeling a bit better! It's great you are able to take her to work with you, she's a lucky girl

[Erny]

Bloody farty bum dog. She's a champion at that :)

In my unqualified (nutrionist speaking) opinion, if farting is frequent and especially (but not only) if it is smelly, there's something not right with the food -vs- digestion and indicates that diet could do well to be looked at to determine what and/or why.

Just my late night 2 cents worth.

[dotdashdot]

Bloody farty bum dog. She's a champion at that :)

In my unqualified (nutrionist speaking) opinion, if farting is frequent and especially (but not only) if it is smelly, there's something not right with the food -vs- digestion and indicates that diet could do well to be looked at to determine what and/or why.

Just my late night 2 cents worth.

I wouldn't call it frequent, mainly just a gas bomb every few nights or if I take her to work, conveniently when she's greeting my workmates or bosses...and they're always loud when it's in front of someone else!

Her diet is Earthborn grainfree (either lamb or chicken) and barf patties (again mainly lamb or chicken).

[Erny]

Bloody farty bum dog. She's a champion at that :)

In my unqualified (nutrionist speaking) opinion, if farting is frequent and especially (but not only) if it is smelly, there's something not right with the food -vs- digestion and indicates that diet could do well to be looked at to determine what and/or why.

Just my late night 2 cents worth.

I wouldn't call it frequent, mainly just a gas bomb every few nights or if I take her to work, conveniently when she's greeting my workmates or bosses...and they're always loud when it's in front of someone else!

Her diet is Earthborn grainfree (either lamb or chicken) and barf patties (again mainly lamb or chicken).

My boy has digestive problems - had them from young outset and I battled to find foods that he would do well on. Top brand stuff as well as fresh natural. Throughout, he farted - a lot. Coupled with the fact that they smelt. His situation is of course far more exaggerated than yours but when I did find a diet formula that suited him, the farts immediately stopped and no smell. It can be months apart before I hear a fart - and when it does occur no smell accompanies it.

I was very much relieved at the infrequency and absence of gas from my dog - not only from the smell aspect (and they did stink, which told the story of things not being right in his stomach) but also from the incident of bloat aspect, which was ever-present in the back of my mind whilst I explored to find out what individual food items and proteins would work for him and what would not.

Just something to consider.

[dotdashdot]

Thanks, I appreciate you telling me your experience. Working in a pet store, she's had many different brands of dry food, the only food she's never had is purely RAW. We do give her chicken frames and as I said, barf patties. The reason I love Earthborn is coz one rep, knowing that I liked the food and fed it, offered to feed her and my future pup for life and of course, from a coat perspective, she is really shiny and got great muscle tone.

But, if it's not agreeing with her stomach, I will try something different! What did you end up settling on? (+ we have a new Earthborn rep and she's not as nice as the last one, who was a vet as well). I've tried Holistic Select, Royal Canin, a little bit of Advance (only a little bag), Eukanuba, Pro Plan, and Black Hawk.

Of course, if she has Urate stones, this all becomes moot and she'll have to go on a diet for that, I will try to avoid Hills u/d if I can though!

[Erny]

I follow the full-blown recommended Augustine's Approved diet. The food items which comprise this diet is no secret and is freely available. Essentially (for my boy) it comprises of human-grade, preservative free, roo mince; lentils; broccoli; carrots; beetroot and zucchini. The vegies are all pureed at the time of preparation. Added to that is virgin cold pressed coconut oil and finally, the Augustine's Approved SuperBoost.

My boy is one out of the box - his digestive issues were fairly serious and complex - which is why I went for the full blown version of the diet. Prior to that, regardless of the food he was on, his stools were black and tarry and, as I mentioned, his stomach stunk .... so much so that my house carried the smell almost on a permanent basis. And also as I mentioned, apart from his stools being great (no more scraping them out of the blades of grass), there's no more farting (very very infrequently at worst) and no smell. I got onto Augustine's Approved diet (I think I initially read of it here, even though it was a thread that incited controversy by some) feeling absolutely desperate. I'd tried almost every diet from various commercial through to natural through to veterinary prescription lines, but eventually each one failed. I'd reached the stage where I wondered if this was the end of the line for him, because there just didn't seem to be a food protein he could cope with.

Since my boy began the AA+ diet (which, for a large dog, is somewhat exxy and some time needs to go into it for food preparation - I prepare 22 serves of the veggie mix at a time and this lasts 11 days) I know that there have been numerous others who have had dogs without quite the same extreme of issues as my boy has had and have tried the SuperBoost powder (which comprises of different herbs), simply adding it to food they already feed. I believe they have noticed really good results in terms of coat and other things even without altering what they feed. Personally, I think a whole natural balanced diet is the best way to go.

The point of my boy's diet is to balance out his system so it can work to optimum performance naturally, which is why I steer well away from chemicals in any shape or form. His coat looks great and he's been the best he's been since this whole health drama showed its ugly face (which was when he was 7mo ..... he's now 5.5yo). He's been doing well on this food for near on 2 years now. Previously, the best run he had with any diet change was 10 months, then his body would erupt with symptoms. There are occasional symptoms that appear now and again but the symptoms are much less frequent and the severity is minute compared with earlier.

Overall, he looks well, happy and healthy, with a great gleaming coat and full of beans. He actually looks healthier than some of the 'healthy' dogs around and I often wonder how well they would do on a diet such as this. The only thing with my boy is that he tends on the lean side - a little more lean than I'd prefer. Doesn't help that his main protein is roo mince being that it is a lean meat in itself. But if that's the worst, then I'm ok with that.

Prior to this, he couldn't tolerate chicken. In fact, almost every meat protein was on the "no no" list. I've been re-introducing organic chicken back into his diet. Just here and there. So far, it's been tolerated fine.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Erny

[dotdashdot]

Wow you've been through a lot!

I've heard of the AA+ diet, and saw that thread when it first came up. There is a dally breeder I know of who uses the Superboost as well.

Cleo can't have certain things, as a dally (thing's I've avoided anyway and still ended up with stones), but if it turns out she has stones that need a certain special diet, I will certainly look into AA+, as well as what some other dally owners feed when their dogs have developed stones.

It's great to hear that you found a food that finally worked, I hope it continues to work for you! And I shall update when I know what's happening with Cleo :)

[denali]

Wow you've been through a lot!

I've heard of the AA+ diet, and saw that thread when it first came up. There is a dally breeder I know of who uses the Superboost as well.

Cleo can't have certain things, as a dally (thing's I've avoided anyway and still ended up with stones), but if it turns out she has stones that need a certain special diet, I will certainly look into AA+, as well as what some other dally owners feed when their dogs have developed stones.

It's great to hear that you found a food that finally worked, I hope it continues to work for you! And I shall update when I know what's happening with Cleo :)

I am part of a raw feeding group on facebook, and I have seen a couple of people on there who are feeding raw instead of the hills prescription diet that is recommended by vets and have been having great results.

The groups is called 'Raw feeding Friends' and i am sure if you post in there one of them would be more than happy to share their experiences :)

ETA: glad everything is ok :) I know how worried you must have been.

Edited October 19, 2013 by denali

[Erny]

Wow you've been through a lot!

Learnt a heck of a lot, along the way :).

I've heard of the AA+ diet, and saw that thread when it first came up. There is a dally breeder I know of who uses the Superboost as well.

Cleo can't have certain things, as a dally (thing's I've avoided anyway and still ended up with stones), but if it turns out she has stones that need a certain special diet, I will certainly look into AA+, as well as what some other dally owners feed when their dogs have developed stones.

Not sure whether Phivo (owner of AA+) will know specifically to 'stones', but maybe check in with him. He seems to have created a balance of the herbs - where one works in tune with the other for the good of the body and its various parts/organs. Maybe he has had feedback from people who have attested to success in the specifics of 'stones' ???

It's great to hear that you found a food that finally worked, I hope it continues to work for you! And I shall update when I know what's happening with Cleo :)

Thank you to both of the above. Given the very checkered health history my boy has gone through, my fingers are always crossed. But I've managed to avoid the use of antibiotics and cortisone - drugs numerous Vets in the early days were wanting to prescribe as they scratched their heads not knowing what was wrong. Back then and because of the pressure of antibiotics and cortisone being thrust upon me, I travelled the 3 hours each way trip a few times, consulting with Dr Bruce Syme. He was excellent and whilst some initial inroads were made in those early days, he did help me continue to avoid the drugs and was the beginning of me understanding more of alternate, natural treatments. I don't know why my boy is so sensitive to proteins - he just is (and I found this out more definitively along the way as well). And so my ambition has been and continues to be to set his body up to function as well as it can possibly function, giving every opportunity possible for it to right itself or at least perform to its peculiar optimum so he can be the best he can be.

If I knew back then what I know now, I do wish I'd known about AA+ earlier. I would have saved (literally) thousands of dollars in the various dog food brands/styles I'd tried but which failed, including the Veterinary lines which I went to in desperation but which also went belly-up (pardon the pun) after about 7 months or so (and only really having us limp along for the duration). But we're on a good track atm and as I can still recall wondering if my boy would survive until 2 years old, then 3 years old, I'm really quite happy for the journey we've been on, where it's lead us to and what I've learnt along the way.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Erny