Eye Contact

[Sayreovi]

Hope its not true, cause Nova doesnt do that either i have tried nearly all the methods listed (will try them on the weekend) but dont think its working and i wanted to know if it was like a requirement or something.

I guess it also stops your dog getting distracted to

[pgm]

tollersowned, it is a requirement for competition that your dog maintain the heel position at all times, something that a dog cannot do if it is not paying attention.

There is no requirement on the other hand that the dog maintain eye contact the whole time. My dog watches my legs and feet and keeps the heel position that way.

The only reason for teaching the dog to look up and maintain eye contact is that some people think that it looks better and that you get better scores. They may be right - but it is not a requirement and technically speaking you should not be penalized so long as your dog maintains the heel position.

[Kavik]

I think it makes them look more animated and excited, some of the dogs that heel with no eye contact look bored and not interested (not saying yours does!). I have seen some video footage of American dogs with a lot of eye contact and it looks amazing! The dogs look so happy and bouncy! That is how I want my dog to look when it heels.

[sidoney]

Yes, it's a style thing, and it changes the way they move, as Kavik said. We will see more and more of it methinks.

[pgm]

I have seen quite a few dogs look bored and disinterested too, but it is almost always combined with lagging. I agree that good eye contact can make the heeling look prettier. But I have seen pictures of dogs heeling (it's on the Leerburg site under competition heeling vidoes by Tom Rose I think) where the dogs are literally wrapped around the handlers leg. Personally I can't see how that can be marked better when the dogs are actually touching their handler's and contorted out of position.

In the eye of the beholder I suppose...

[Kavik]

I have good eye contact when stationary, but am finding eye contact on the move trickier.

The training a competition heeling dog video from Leerburg is the one I have. I am finding though that heeling slowly for short periods is good practice for slow pace, but then Diesel lags in normal and fast pace, so for now I have gone back to rewarding from my hand on the move until I fix that.

[m-j]

Hi

I know you need a dogs attention but wouldn't focus on a hand do just as well? Particually as they are the one of the main body bits that give cues, the thing that I don't want the dog to miss. The only problem is the handler needs to be very aware of what they are doing with their hands.

I believe the looking up comes from the dogs attitude to training (and your attitude plays a role also)and the way it's being trained. I have NEVER taught attention but I get it. So this is why I asked the question, just about everything I have read everyone suggests teaching the dog to look at the owners faces. I can't understand why the face is the thing to watch. Like someone on another list said the amount of times I looked at the teacher appearing to pay attention, but would be off in laa laa land.

With this in mind I work on making myself interesting by being unpreditable as to where, when and how the reward is coming and what it is, food, game, walk, splash in the pool on a hot day, pats, verbal praise, anything they want at that particular moment. With all these treats hands have a great deal to do with the distibution of them so therefore are worth watching.

where the dogs are literally wrapped around the handlers leg. Personally I can't see how that can be marked better when the dogs are actually touching their handler's .

pqm

If you are talking about a trial situation, they shouldn't, points should be taken off for crowding, it could be percieved as a second signal.

cheers

M-J

[Lablover]

I'm following Sue Ailsby's training levels.

I want it as the basis for other things.

Nat

Nat,

I am having my lunch and as I not had heard of this person and her methods, by posting the name you are making my lunch go cold.

Watch your dogs ears especially when they are young and learning obedience. Mine nearly always if they are focused on me, have their ears slightly back or up.

[Guest Tess32]

I don't really use her "methods" as such, it is a level book rather than a training book. Eg In level 3 of "drop", the dog can drop from 10 M away without moving forward. I don't necessarily use the methods she might use to GET to that stage.

Reilly's ears are almost always up unless he's greeting me - his ears only go back when he is in a gooey/affectionate mood.

Nat

[Lablover]

Surfed the net and noticed in was clicker training, which I have no experience in. The damm clicker confuses me no end, LOL, what is the difference with just perfectly timed praise. I must go to a clicker course one day, heck I go to so many seminars anyway.

The ear thingo must be a labrador trait.

[KitKat]

My boys both listen for everything i do...but if they are out front of me they watch me and keep good eye contact which proves handy at times...lol.

But when i got back into obedience with my older boy i was told that he should try and keep eye contact all the time. I found that annoying i must admit because my dog wasn't paying as much attention to what was in front of him. So now i encourage them to listen and watch...the GSD pup looks funny as his ears fold back to hear me better...lol, at least the Rotti X looks more subtle doing it with his floppy ears!

I bought a new clicker at the pet expo so am starting to give that a go with the nice basic 'watch' comand

[Lablover]

My dogs look at my hands. I rarely look down. I look out. I must be missing something with our comparisons.

[Guest Tess32]

The difference is that some people find it harder to remember to say the same word at the right time

Plus, some dogs appear to prefer the clicker and it's probably a "quicker" sound than "yes".

Unrelated - but I think a lot of people don't actually condition a 'word' anyway - they just think dogs are born knowing what "good boy/girl" means.

You don't have to clicker train to do her levels though cos as I said...they are just levels not really methods (though some methods are included for sake of ease).

I'm so dumb I just had to spend a week unconditioning my dog to always sit in front of me

I do have his attention though, just not his little eyeballs

Nat

[KitKat]

I think as long as you have his attention and that he is focused on you it isn't a big deal which direction his eyes are looking. Some dogs seem to prefer looking at their handler and others prefer listening to/for them.

[EddyAnne]

G'day, Eddy here.

When heeling I prefer my dogs to watch my hands as these give signals, plus watch my legs and lower body to align to for positioning, also by watching for certain leg movements can give the dog slight advanced warning of turns and changes in pace etc.

Is there anything in the Obedience Rules that a dog has to focus on your face?

By the way, be careful about the dog wrapping for if there is physical contacting with the handler this might be seen by the judge as physical guidance by the handler which could result in failing the exercise, and I have seen some cases in the ring where this has occurred.

[Lablover]

Good point Eddy. Too close heeling has sometimes get you marked down. I have one who is excellent at obedience. She looks so tuned it. Strangely she is my most softest lab. No harsh methods were ever used on her. I rarely had to use even a flat collar or leash of her. She has tripped me over many a time by heeling too close. She nearly always places her right paw on my left foot.

[EddyAnne]

She has tripped me over many a time by heeling too close. She nearly always places her right paw on my left foot.

G'day, Eddy here.

I've seen that happening moreso with larger dogs and even the odd cases where the handler treads on the dog's paw such as on left turns. Doesn't tend to happen as much with smaller dogs as they tend to heel out wider as it's a bit difficult for them to stay in position if they turn their head around to look up at the upper portions of the handler.

[grotty_rotty]

personally dog food in my mouth is not for me, and if he gets tired of looking at me (who can blame him) I pull faces and he watches intently. Eyebrows going up and down is a constant source of amusment.

[Kavik]

My previous dogs did look at my hands (they were smaller so even hands was looking up LOL!) Diesel sometimes does look at my hands, at the moment that is keeping him in better position than trying to get him to watch my face as I think my posture when I get him to watch my face on the move is making him lag. My fault. Diesel also tends to heel closer than Zoe does, Diesel sometimes crowds.

grooy rotty I use cheese as the food reward from my mouth, thinking of trying cabanossi too.

I use a combination of methods at the moment, just checking them out and seeing what I like. Pretty much the only part of that tape that I use is the attention bit. I think with some work I am really going to like clicker training, it just takes some getting used to as it is so different from the other methods I have tried, even the positive ones.

[m-j]

Is there anything in the Obedience Rules that a dog has to focus on your face?

No, not that I'm aware of.

cheers

M-J