Petition - Ldh Brisbane

[Alyosha]

Well said Little Gifts.

[Aphra]

Yes. I agree totally.

Rescues are doing a mighty job saving lives by using their own, and their supporters, limited resources. Councils are then using their improved live release rates to market themselves to their ratepayers, while offering rescues nothing at all in the way of support - across the country a public responsibility is being pushed off onto private resources without any attention at all. If it was anything other than animal rescue there'd be an outcry from the community.

I don't think rescues realise how much of the public load they are carrying, while the people with the resources and facilities are making money hand over fist, failing utterly at what they tell the public is their primary objective (protecting animals). It's not a sustainable model, which is why the LDH and, the RSPCA are copping so much well-deserved criticism. They are attracting millions in public donations and council contracts (one contract the NSW RSPCA has with a local council is worth 2.5 million dollars) while actually doing less than many rescue groups who have maybe 1% of their resources.

It's not at all uncommon for the LDH in Melbourne to have fewer animals available for adoption than the Lost Dogs Home. I wrote this piece on the 3rd January this year - prime time for adoptions you'd think, when people are on holidays. I counted up the animals the LDH had available on their website for adoption.

And if a community based foster care network like Victorian Dog Rescue, operating purely with volunteers and foster carers can have 51 dogs available for adoption, why does the Lost Dogs Home in North Melbourne, one of the biggest and richest shelters in Australia only have 18 dogs looking for homes in Victoria?

What is wrong with this picture? In anyone's terms you would think we were over serviced. Animal Management is not the responsibility of independent rescue groups yet here we all are picking up the pieces! How much money is being used inappropriately on this issue, whether it be a local authority who does not fund it adequately, a large entity who seems to be raking in the money with public sympathy but making little impact on the lives of animals in need or contractors like LDH who swallow up animals whole?

Rant over.

[Little Gifts]

And we are all too scared to say anything in case they wont work with us and the animals pay with their lives.

Does anyone know of a council pound run by say a rescue co-op of several smaller rescue groups working together? I'm just wondering how feasible the idea is?

AWL started out as a small independent rescue and have maintained their values and good name over years of expansion. I grew up on the Gold Coast and still remember their old shelter in the swamp at the back of Labrador and their dodgy op shops. The volunteers were always so friendly, true animal lovers and committed to the cause. So it can be done without losing sight of why you exist. What happened to the RSPCA and LDH?

[Guardienne]

From what you "know", LOL you know nothing!

From what I know they used to work with rescue but some rescue nutters ruined it and so now they don't.

ETA: to clarify I was talking about north melbourne. I know nothing about Brisbane.

[mita]

[

Rant over.

Feel free to do so.

Are you arguing that there should be one system only... large shelters mainly minimally funded thro' the public purse with charity fund-raising as well?

Or for a balanced system where large shelters funded via the public purse/charity fund-raising are the mainstays, but supplemented by the efforts of some private community rescues?

Or something else?

I'd be interested to know what you're going to do in relation to this issue presently unfolding about the Lost Dogs' Home in Brisbane?

I've said I'm taking the issue to relevant Councillors.... because the back story with the Petition claims that the LDH is not meeting community standards in how ratepayer-supplied funds are being used to run the 2 Brisbane Pounds. And that the private rescue system, which has previously supplemented that, has been turned away.

Interesting to consider if the well-developed AWL Qld had also been a tenderer for the Brisbane Pounds. But were unsuccessful. Someone said this was so.... but I don't have any reference.

If so, there might have been a totally different story re the 2 Brisbane Council Pounds.

AWL has managed to implement a shelter system with public-money contracts from the Gold Coast & Ipswich Councils.... & also greatly attracting charity fund-raising. And using their own foster-carers & volunteers.. Also, cooperating well, in my experience, with breed rescue.

In fact, when I approach the relevant Brisbane councillors, I'll be pointing out AWL Qld's success.

What annoys me greatly, is that Q'ld already had that context. The Brisbane Pound management system should've made use of it. Rather than become a branch from a Melbourne context.

Edited October 8, 2013 by mita

[Guardienne]

Do the councils in Queensland have Domestic Animal Management plans or strategies or similar.

E.g. Logan city council have an Animal Management Strategy that states as one of their objectives

"provide a sales and re-homing service to minimise the euthanasia of unclaimed and surrendered cats and dogs"

A quick search didn't bring anything up for me for Brisbane City Council, but this would be the first thing I would look into. Then where applicable address council with complaints in relation to their animal management plans and strategies.

Good luck.

I

[

Rant over.

Feel free to do so.

Are you arguing that there should be one system only... large shelters mainly minimally funded thro' the public purse with charity fund-raising as well?

Or for a balanced system where large shelters funded via the public purse/charity fund-raising are the mainstays, but supplemented by the efforts of some private community rescues?

Or something else?

I'd be interested to know what you're going to do in relation to this issue presently unfolding about the Lost Dogs' Home in Brisbane?

I've said I'm taking the issue to relevant Councillors.... because the back story with the Petition claims that the LDH is not meeting community standards in how ratepayer-supplied funds are being used to run the 2 Brisbane Pounds. And that the private rescue system, which has previously supplemented that, has been turned away.

Interesting to consider if the well-developed AWL Qld had also been a tenderer for the Brisbane Pounds. But were unsuccessful. Someone said this was so.... but I don't have any reference.

If so, there might have been a totally different story re the 2 Brisbane Council Pounds.

AWL has managed to implement a shelter system with public-money contracts from the Gold Coast & Ipswich Councils.... & also greatly attracting charity fund-raising. And using their own foster-carers & volunteers.. Also, cooperating well, in my experience, with breed rescue.

In fact, when I approach the relevant Brisbane councillors, I'll be pointing out AWL Qld's success.

What annoys me greatly, is that Q'ld already had that context. The Brisbane Pound management system should've made use of it. Rather than become a branch from a Melbourne context.

[mita]

There are a couple (at least) of rescues working quietly in the background to move things on. Sadly when most organisations are attacked in the media constantly they shut down and block all rescues, ethical or not. I really struggle with this one as the figures really are a disgrace but treading softly , keeping a dialogue going, and gentle persistence seems at this time to be the way to go. At least for now. Many in rescue in Brisbane are very aware of what is going on. I certainly hope things will improve and very soon.

Coogie, you're right in pointing to a dilemma. With the lives of dogs & cats held as collateral. That in itself points to something badly wrong.... & unnecessarily so.

The bottom line is that the LDH is not operating as an independent organization in Brisbane. It's contracted with public money by the Brisbane City Council. There is no way that ratepayers are going to put up with dog/cat management services if they're not in line with the reasonable community standards, already achieved in this State.

Edited October 8, 2013 by mita

[Little Gifts]

Not arguing for one system Mita or a one size fits all approach as each community is different. But it does concern me that there are indications independent and small rescue groups can do more/better with a lot less infrastructure and support. It makes me wonder what they could do with more. Do they simply become like LDH or could they stay the path and become AWL? I guess I'm just raising the things that bug me; that stand out like dog's balls and I was wondering if I was the only one who noticed them? There seems to be a lack of learning or perhaps a lack of interest in learning about what already works well and using the same approach. I don't get it.

I'll be honest and say I now have two major family crisis on my plate with fall out still pending tonight or tomorrow. For me to be publicly active about anything I want to read up and know what I'm talking about before I stick my nose in and I don't have the time or energy to do that with this LDH situation this week. Next week could be a different story.

[mita]

Do the councils in Queensland have Domestic Animal Management plans or strategies or similar.

E.g. Logan city council have an Animal Management Strategy that states as one of their objectives

"provide a sales and re-homing service to minimise the euthanasia of unclaimed and surrendered cats and dogs"

A quick search didn't bring anything up for me for Brisbane City Council, but this would be the first thing I would look into. Then where applicable address council with complaints in relation to their animal management plans and strategies.

Good luck.

Guardienne, I didn't have much luck, either. Only thing I could find was a general notice on the BCC's website. It didn't mention anything about rehoming where possible. It's has many 'motherhood' words... like 'safe', 'fair', 'voice for animals', but no actual behavioral strategies that could be observed & measured. Shall still keep looking:

Animal shelters

Brisbane City Council has two animal shelters that house homeless, lost or abandoned animals. Council's animal shelters provide a safe environment for lost cats, dogs and other animals.

The animal welfare organisation, The Lost Dogs' Home (The Home), has been engaged to administer the animal shelters. Since 1910, The Home has been a voice for animals without owners. It has been a pioneer for fair animal laws and continues to work towards reducing the number of lost, abandoned and stray cats and dogs.

The Home is currently managing pound and animal shelters services on behalf of 22 local government agencies, including Brisbane City Council. It is committed to providing high quality services for the ratepayers and residents of Brisbane, as well as visitors to the city.

Edited October 8, 2013 by mita

[Guardienne]

Check out what Logan have it's an animal management document

http://www.logan.qld.gov.au/facilities-and-recreation/animals/2011-to-2015-Animal-Management-Strategy-August-2011-web.pdf

Brisbane may not have one, I'm not sure it's a legislative requirement in QLD yet. But you could ring them and ask as not all documents are necessarily on the net.

You are looking for an Animal Management strategy, plan or policy document or even Draft Document if they are currently working on one ;)

Do the councils in Queensland have Domestic Animal Management plans or strategies or similar.

E.g. Logan city council have an Animal Management Strategy that states as one of their objectives

"provide a sales and re-homing service to minimise the euthanasia of unclaimed and surrendered cats and dogs"

A quick search didn't bring anything up for me for Brisbane City Council, but this would be the first thing I would look into. Then where applicable address council with complaints in relation to their animal management plans and strategies.

Good luck.

Guardienne, I didn't have much luck, either. Only thing I could find was a general notice on the BCC's website. It didn't even mention anything about rehoming where possible. It's has many 'motherhood' words... like 'safe', 'fair', 'voice for animals', but no actual behavioral strategies that could be observed & measured. Shall still keep looking:

[Little Gifts]

shelters

Brisbane City Council has two animal shelters that house homeless, lost or abandoned animals. Council's animal shelters provide a safe environment for lost cats, dogs and other animals.

The animal welfare organisation, The Lost Dogs' Home (The Home), has been engaged to administer the animal shelters. Since 1910, The Home has been a voice for animals without owners. It has been a pioneer for fair animal laws and continues to work towards reducing the number of lost, abandoned and stray cats and dogs. Excuse me while I vomit in my mouth a bit.

The Home is currently managing pound and animal shelters services on behalf of 22 local government agencies, including Brisbane City Council. It is committed to providing high quality services for the ratepayers and residents of Brisbane, as well as visitors to the city.

Does this mean they are managing shelters for 22 councils/shires? It would have to be across Australia or that means it runs most of them across this state and I don't think that is true.

And if they are managing pounds and shelters for 22 LGAs then they should know how to do it better than their stats are showing here in Brisbane and adoption figures are showing in Melbourne.

[Mila's Mum]

Interesting to consider if the well-developed AWL Qld had also been a tenderer for the Brisbane Pounds. But were unsuccessful. Someone said this was so.... but I don't have any reference.

AWL Qld did put in a tender and it was widely hoped they would win, given their track record on the Gold Coast. But it came down to money - LDH had a lower price, so they won the tender.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/charity-bids-for-control-of-brisbanes-pounds-20101022-16xbu.html

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/council-move-to-cut-animal-shelter-costs/story-e6freoof-1226115883807

[tdierikx]

It has been a pioneer for fair animal laws and continues to work towards reducing the number of lost, abandoned and stray cats and dogs.

Ummm... didn't they advocate the BSL laws in Victoria? And if "reducing the numbers of lost and stray cats and dogs" means euthing them so they don't reoffend... well - they have done their job there, yes?

I'd like to see the LDH organisation work more closely with rescue - but they have been stung before by some overzealous people involved in rescue, so are probably not overly open to that idea. Maybe they need to have some of the less radical types in rescue come to them with a proposal that all can work within, and maybe we could see some changes there...

T.

[vicdrg]

[

I'd like to see the LDH organisation work more closely with rescue - but they have been stung before by some overzealous people involved in rescue, so are probably not overly open to that idea. Maybe they need to have some of the less radical types in rescue come to them with a proposal that all can work within, and maybe we could see some changes there...

T.

It's sad to see this old chestnut regurgitated all the time. If you mean that some of the early rescue groups were driven into animal welfare by what was happening at the Lost Dogs Home, yes that is accurate. If you mean that they often discreetly adopted dogs that would otherwise be killed, that is they failed for various minor reasons at the Lost Dogs Home, but could be adopted if you paid extra money or convinced them you could cope with a timid dog, yes that would be right.

Sometimes you have to be shaken out of your comfort zone and LDH certainly did that for some of us.

[Guardienne]

LOL I really love the experts on what the problem is with the LDH and rescue in Victoria, especially comments from people that where in no way involved..... and don't even live in the state. It's quite comical, so I'll chose not to waste my energy on these fruitless ridiculous and outrageous statements.... It's childish really :) So please excuse me if I ignore anything that is in no relation to moving forward trying to make a positive change.

A few suggestions for those who are trying to make a difference (I'm sure you also have your own thoughts and idea's and probably have many of these things in place or in the planning stage already).

Gather a small group to co-ordinate your efforts

Set up a fb page and webpage so that you can spread your message, communicate and refer people to you letters. news and content.

Letters and emails to Brisbane City Council - co-ordinate a letter campaign and try to attract as many local people as possible to your cause. (online petitions don't seem to hold much weight)

Ask to speak to you local councilors about the issue

Attend local council meetings and ask for your issue to be put on the agenda so you get time for discussion of your issue

As much media as possible in local papers/local radio stations/talkback radio highlighting the increase in euthanasia rates - but make sure you have the figures right - make sure you mention the council in all of your media releases, councils hate bad publicity and it is one of the things that will get them to take action - but talk to them first to see if anything can be done before getting them offside. We have found here many councilors actually have no idea what goes on and if they are communicated with respectfully have often surprised us ;)

If there are any animal management plans/stratagies/policies around get your hands on it (you may need to contact the council and ask them if they have these documents) and see if it has anything on it in relation to euthanasia rates, lowering them or addressing high euthanasia rates and bring this to the attention of the council.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Guardienne

[tdierikx]

LOL I really love the experts on what the problem is with the LDH and rescue in Victoria, especially comments from people that where in no way involved..... and don't even live in the state. It's quite comical, so I'll chose not to waste my energy on these fruitless ridiculous and outrageous statements.... It's childish really :) So please excuse me if I ignore anything that is in no relation to moving forward trying to make a positive change.

A few suggestions for those who are trying to make a difference (I'm sure you also have your own thoughts and idea's and probably have many of these things in place or in the planning stage already).

Gather a small group to co-ordinate your efforts

Set up a fb page and webpage so that you can spread your message, communicate and refer people to you letters. news and content.

Letters and emails to Brisbane City Council - co-ordinate a letter campaign and try to attract as many local people as possible to your cause. (online petitions don't seem to hold much weight)

Ask to speak to you local councilors about the issue

Attend local council meetings and ask for your issue to be put on the agenda so you get time for discussion of your issue

As much media as possible in local papers/local radio stations/talkback radio highlighting the increase in euthanasia rates - but make sure you have the figures right - make sure you mention the council in all of your media releases, councils hate bad publicity and it is one of the things that will get them to take action - but talk to them first to see if anything can be done before getting them offside. We have found here many councilors actually have no idea what goes on and if they are communicated with respectfully have often surprised us ;)

If there are any animal management plans/stratagies/policies around get your hands on it (you may need to contact the council and ask them if they have these documents) and see if it has anything on it in relation to euthanasia rates, lowering them or addressing high euthanasia rates and bring this to the attention of the council.

LOL - considering that the rescue I'm with (in NSW) has successfully rescued dogs from the Victorian LDH without paying a full adoption fee, and have spoken to GS on the phone myself with regards to the rescue of those animals... I may just have more "expertise" in this area than you might think...

Your suggestions have some merit - however, have these tactics (especially the media campaigns) actually made a difference to the Victorian LDH kill stats or their willingness to work with local rescue?

T.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

LOL I really love the experts on what the problem is with the LDH and rescue in Victoria, especially comments from people that where in no way involved..... and don't even live in the state. It's quite comical, so I'll chose not to waste my energy on these fruitless ridiculous and outrageous statements.... It's childish really :) So please excuse me if I ignore anything that is in no relation to moving forward trying to make a positive change.

A few suggestions for those who are trying to make a difference (I'm sure you also have your own thoughts and idea's and probably have many of these things in place or in the planning stage already).

Gather a small group to co-ordinate your efforts

Set up a fb page and webpage so that you can spread your message, communicate and refer people to you letters. news and content.

Letters and emails to Brisbane City Council - co-ordinate a letter campaign and try to attract as many local people as possible to your cause. (online petitions don't seem to hold much weight)

Ask to speak to you local councilors about the issue

Attend local council meetings and ask for your issue to be put on the agenda so you get time for discussion of your issue

As much media as possible in local papers/local radio stations/talkback radio highlighting the increase in euthanasia rates - but make sure you have the figures right - make sure you mention the council in all of your media releases, councils hate bad publicity and it is one of the things that will get them to take action - but talk to them first to see if anything can be done before getting them offside. We have found here many councilors actually have no idea what goes on and if they are communicated with respectfully have often surprised us ;)

If there are any animal management plans/stratagies/policies around get your hands on it (you may need to contact the council and ask them if they have these documents) and see if it has anything on it in relation to euthanasia rates, lowering them or addressing high euthanasia rates and bring this to the attention of the council.

LOL - considering that the rescue I'm with (in NSW) has successfully rescued dogs from the Victorian LDH without paying a full adoption fee, and have spoken to GS on the phone myself with regards to the rescue of those animals... I may just have more "expertise" in this area than you might think...

Your suggestions have some merit - however, have these tactics (especially the media campaigns) actually made a difference to the Victorian LDH kill stats or their willingness to work with local rescue?

T.

I really think you would need to be a lot closer to LDH before you could claim to be an expert on the topic and denigrating rescuers who have managed to save animals from there (and very ethical rescuers) isn't helpful. Running a rescue is very different from volunteering in one.

That said, everyone should be horrified at LDH. It operates as a pound for lost animals for several councils BUT it does not portray itself as a pound. It portrays itself as something like the AWL or RSPCA - rehoming animals. It asks for money to help animals when in reality, the proportion of animals that make it out of there is very tiny.

The actual shelter conditions in Melbourne were horrendous when I visited, far worse than Blacktown, Renbury or HP. There was no excuse when LDH was raking in money. I've met Victorians who were leaving money to this organisation in their wills - I hope I managed to change all of their minds when I told them the truth.

Edited October 8, 2013 by dogmad

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I should also add that I've tried to get dogs out of LDH - both as a member of the public and also as a rescuer. As a member of the public, I made at least 5 phone calls for one particular dog over a few days - as requested.

Didn't manage to get any of them. I'm sure they died instead. Is that a better result T?

I know the Pounds in Sydney well, they do their utmost to find rescue for the dogs or find them a home rather than euthanase them. LDH is the other side of the coin - they do their utmost to kill them and deter anyone who tries to do anything different.

[Little Gifts]

This is what I don't get and how we seem to realise it is wrong but LDH doesn't. Why should smaller rescues have to rescue dogs from a much larger rescue organisation to ensure their safety? Why should smaller rescue groups have to jump through hoops to work with a much larger rescue organisation? If their values and processes were held in such high esteem and so effective it would be the other way around - the 'little guys' would be knocking on the door of their 'mentors' and welcomed in with open arms, sharing the low and adding to the power base for positive community change. And why do we tolerate a large rescue organisation seeking public donations when they are already receiving contract monies to run a service? There is something very wrong with that right there.

LDH might need to do some soul searching on why they don't have respect from smaller rescue groups and why these groups choose back door routes to save a dog that should already be safe.

[Guardienne]

It's fantastic that the group you volunteer for have managed to have a dogs transferred to them. But I must say it's a very interesting snippet of information. During a radio interview on 3AW, GS was asked why he wouldn't release animals to rescue. His reply was that they used to but some of the rescue groups sent the animals interstate. This was his reason he gave to the public as to why he didn't release to rescue. So I hope you don't mind me quoting you and this information next time there is a media forum with the LDH. ;)

And in relation to the media campaigns, it's irrelevant how it influences the LDH. If rescues have already attempted to communicate with them and have exhausted all peaceful and sensible avenues, it's now time to influence their council :)

LOL - considering that the rescue I'm with (in NSW) has successfully rescued dogs from the Victorian LDH without paying a full adoption fee, and have spoken to GS on the phone myself with regards to the rescue of those animals... I may just have more "expertise" in this area than you might think...

Your suggestions have some merit - however, have these tactics (especially the media campaigns) actually made a difference to the Victorian LDH kill stats or their willingness to work with local rescue?

T.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Guardienne