Another Child Injured

[Alison03]

The school dog awareness campaigns do work. Mentioned before a while back, but a wandering dog went into the local school the kids had done their dog safety lesson. Instead of crowding around the dog and squealing in delight, they left it alone and went and got a teacher :) Found an old newsletter with some pics and it's on page 2 of the pdf their dog was a standard poodle :D

http://www.houghtonc7.sa.edu.au/pdfs/Term1Week5.pdf

I'd call that an excellent result. I call anything like road safety or dog safety empowering our kids, giving them the tools to protect themselves. :)

[Alison03]

No child should be left in close contact with a dog, whether the dog is known or unknown, this sounds like an accident but it's also another instance of a dog carer not knowing the dogs capabilities.

Someone should hold classes for prospective dog owners, give them all mirrors, tell them to look at their own teeth then say "A human jaw and teeth have the power to bite off a human finger", then show them the jaws and teeth of several different dogs, from the largest to the razor sharp teeth of the smallest, then say "Now imagine what these teeth can do to a human". If you own any animal with teeth like this you must have control of that animal at all times or someone will get hurt and it won't be the dogs fault, they are just doing what is natural to them.

I know getting people in a classroom to do this sounds silly but I genuinely don't think some dog owners see their dogs as the predators they are, they see them as friends or their babies ( my girl is my baby) but they mustn't be blind to what they can do if they get pissed off with someone. No dog owner should say "I didn't think he'd do that, he's never bitten before". A dogs teeth tell the story.

YES!!

the terms furbaby, et al tend to numb the mind to dogs' abilities in the hunt/kill category. There are instincts/reactions and the tools to back them up contained within waggy tailed companion .. but with the intense moulding of many dogs to fit into the 'little furry accessory' box ...the predatory ability gets further and further away .. and it is just so sad.

There are many of you here who have working dogs .. who switch 'on' & 'off' ......you can see clearly that which they are capable of .

Somehow Joe/jenny public need reminding of this ...and children need to be kept safe.

I think it's not just that they don't know what to watch for (that is definitely a big part of it though!) but I also get a sense from many people that they believe the family dog should put up with anything.

I walked Digby past a place the other day where a family was out the front with their young son and their dog. The son was deliberately frightening the dog by throwing a basket ball at it and the parents were doing nothing about it. They saw it going on and couldn't care less. This is not the only example I can think of; there definitely seems to be a perception by many that dogs should tolerate any behaviour from adults and children without reacting at all! Ridiculous!

It really upsets me when I see a dog being maltreated, they just want to be with us, be one of the pack, not stopping a child being cruel to an animal can lead to that child becoming a bully or worse. That phrase "Its only a dog" sickens me, I heard it too many times.

[hankdog]

I'm all for prospective dog owners having to do a course. Might stop some of the "unforeseeable" accidents and impulse buying of puppies and ensure there's some basic etiquette.

Edited October 8, 2013 by hankdog

[BlackJaq]

I feel it especially bears pointing out to parents that food + children + dogs = disaster, especially when they re not closely supervised.

Just recently I have seen several dogs being rehomed after it has come to incidents between the dog and children over food. How this is not obvious I don't know, but some people even actively encourage their children to stick their hands in Fido's food bowl to "teach" the dog that it must allow people to handle its food... No better way to guarantee the dog will try to guard its food against kiddo next time...

Where do people get these ridiculous ideas from?

[Alison03]

I feel it especially bears pointing out to parents that food + children + dogs = disaster, especially when they re not closely supervised.

Just recently I have seen several dogs being rehomed after it has come to incidents between the dog and children over food. How this is not obvious I don't know, but some people even actively encourage their children to stick their hands in Fido's food bowl to "teach" the dog that it must allow people to handle its food... No better way to guarantee the dog will try to guard its food against kiddo next time...

Where do people get these ridiculous ideas from?

I've seen Cesar Milan do that, put his hand in a dogs food bowl while it's eating, I can do it with my dog but I'd never let a child, that's asking for trouble with any dog.

I've seen food aggression appear in a puppy and I've seen what happens if no one does anything about it, but training them out of it should be done by an adult who knows what they are doing. Once a dog is food/toy aggressive and their are kids around, sooner or later there will be an incident. : (

[Odin-Genie]

I feel it especially bears pointing out to parents that food + children + dogs = disaster, especially when they re not closely supervised.

Just recently I have seen several dogs being rehomed after it has come to incidents between the dog and children over food. How this is not obvious I don't know, but some people even actively encourage their children to stick their hands in Fido's food bowl to "teach" the dog that it must allow people to handle its food... No better way to guarantee the dog will try to guard its food against kiddo next time...

Where do people get these ridiculous ideas from?

I've seen Cesar Milan do that, put his hand in a dogs food bowl while it's eating, I can do it with my dog but I'd never let a child, that's asking for trouble with any dog.

I've seen food aggression appear in a puppy and I've seen what happens if no one does anything about it, but training them out of it should be done by an adult who knows what they are doing. Once a dog is food/toy aggressive and their are kids around, sooner or later there will be an incident. : (

I do that with my dogs every once in a while...but I would not let a stranger or a child do that. When I do it, I usually add some extra yummy treats to make my dogs feel that when I put my hands in their bowl while they are eating, it's a very good thing.

[BlackJaq]

But as you said, not with children. Dogs can often be confused as to the standing of young children in the house hold and the most recent dog I know of is a GSP... Who apparently has been snapping at 8 year old kids over food... Not "has snapped" as in once.. It happened repeatedly... How did the parents not learn their lesson that first time? This dog was even snapping at the handler over food! Amazing!

These kind of problems are often self created when people who don't know what they re doing keep interfering with their dog during meals and as we know, familiar dogs are often the ones to hurt or kill children, rather than strange dogs who attack for no reason on the street...

[Alison03]

I feel it especially bears pointing out to parents that food + children + dogs = disaster, especially when they re not closely supervised.

Just recently I have seen several dogs being rehomed after it has come to incidents between the dog and children over food. How this is not obvious I don't know, but some people even actively encourage their children to stick their hands in Fido's food bowl to "teach" the dog that it must allow people to handle its food... No better way to guarantee the dog will try to guard its food against kiddo next time...

Where do people get these ridiculous ideas from?

I've seen Cesar Milan do that, put his hand in a dogs food bowl while it's eating, I can do it with my dog but I'd never let a child, that's asking for trouble with any dog.

I've seen food aggression appear in a puppy and I've seen what happens if no one does anything about it, but training them out of it should be done by an adult who knows what they are doing. Once a dog is food/toy aggressive and their are kids around, sooner or later there will be an incident. : (

I do that with my dogs every once in a while...but I would not let a stranger or a child do that. When I do it, I usually add some extra yummy treats to make my dogs feel that when I put my hands in their bowl while they are eating, it's a very good thing.

The yummy treats is a good idea. My dog will stop eating and sit if I put my hand near her bowl, perhaps she thinks I want to share :laugh:

If I have another dog here, she'll give up her bowl and toys for the other dog, she's super submissive that way, I have grandkids so when she was a puppy, I made sure she realized that she owns nothing. She isn't submissive off leash in play though, she doesn't let any other small dog dominate her, she gives as good as she gets, unless a big dog turns up then she comes straight to me, she knows her limitations.Unlike some small dogs she's not suicidal. :)

[Alison03]

But as you said, not with children. Dogs can often be confused as to the standing of young children in the house hold and the most recent dog I know of is a GSP... Who apparently has been snapping at 8 year old kids over food... Not "has snapped" as in once.. It happened repeatedly... How did the parents not learn their lesson that first time? This dog was even snapping at the handler over food! Amazing!

These kind of problems are often self created when people who don't know what they re doing keep interfering with their dog during meals and as we know, familiar dogs are often the ones to hurt or kill children, rather than strange dogs who attack for no reason on the street...

I've seen that happen a few times, once with a kelpie a neighbour had, it ended with their 3 year old having stitches in her face when she sat down next to the kelpie while it was eating, the mother was a metre away, so it wasn't a matter of there being no supervision. The mother told me that normally she fed the dog out the back and kept her daughter inside the house but it was raining that day. You don't need me to tell you what happened to the dog.

A lot of dog owners make allowances for their dogs, they have an assortment of rules for everyone who comes to their house to follow. One of my relatives had a Maltese/Silky cross, if he jumped onto the lounge next to you, you were told not to touch him or he'd bite, he was fed in the kitchen and no one else was allowed in there, they used to put his bowl down fast and run out. Its was farcical to watch. This dog mind you, could have been an extra in the Exorcist, when he bit it was for real and it was accompanied by this awful hissing snarling sound, and no warning snap first. He never bit me though, if I picked him up his owner would squeal "Don't he'll bite you", her out right panic :eek: when anyone went near him was a huge part of his problem. He lived in absolute luxury for 16 years and totally ruled the house.

[Clyde]

It would make sense if they taught something like "dog safety" in pre schools or kindy, without scaring the kids of course. Just simple things, like never approach a dog you don't know or pick up a dogs toy etc.

Oh goody. More for over worked and under paid teachers to do because another "problem" has reared its head in society.

Where did Alison say that teachers need to do it? Why the need for sarcasm? There are "responsible pet interaction" programs already in schools and it would be good if they were extended. They are run by volunteers, not teachers.

I organised for a group to go my daughters Kindi. It was terrific, the kids got a lot of it. The Kindi also asked me to take my Rotti in and wash him in front of the class to show them how to wash a dog. Poor boy, I had to do him with a hose, he was most unimpressed :laugh: The kids all queued up so politely to pat him and used their skills from the day before. It was well worth it, I can't remember what the group was called, maybe Fido something?

Edited October 10, 2013 by Clyde

[Alison03]

It would make sense if they taught something like "dog safety" in pre schools or kindy, without scaring the kids of course. Just simple things, like never approach a dog you don't know or pick up a dogs toy etc.

Oh goody. More for over worked and under paid teachers to do because another "problem" has reared its head in society.

Where did Alison say that teachers need to do it? Why the need for sarcasm? There are "responsible pet interaction" programs already in schools and it would be good if they were extended. They are run by volunteers, not teachers.

I organised for a group to go my daughters Kindi. It was terrific, the kids got a lot of it. The Kindi also asked me to take my Rotti in and wash him in front of the class to show them how to wash a dog. Poor boy, I had to do him with a hose, he was most unimpressed :laugh: The kids all queued up so politely to pat him and used their skills from the day before. It was well worth it, I can't remember what the group was called, maybe Fido something?

Those kids will probably remember that day at kindy for the rest of their lives and remember the important points that were made. It's a very worthwhile concept. : )

Not sure how my dog would react to being washed with a hose, well done for managing that, I bet you got a bit soggy too. : ))

[sandgrubber]

When will people stop leaving little kids with grandparents when they are also minding a large dog that belongs to someone else? The script for nearly all of these attacks is always the same. So many children scarred for life or even killed and so many dogs pts because they are put in this position. All of these attacks could so easily have been avoided with a little common sense. The basic rule is never allow a dog that isn't yours near any small child. Total separation is the only safe solution.

Where does it say he was left with the grandfather? It says it happened in his home.

Here's from another news report:

The dog bit him on the head before the boy's grandfather intervened.

The family was minding the bullmastiff, police say.

...

The victim's grandfather has told the Seven Network of finding the boy and his injuries.

Everyone seems to be looking for a simple solution. I don't think there is one, given the huge variety of dogs, dog owners, and dog minders.

Sounds like everyone had good intentions and was trying to do the right thing, though, in hindsight, there's plenty of blame to spread around.. I don't think training kids would have helped with this one. Four year olds are too young to systematically teach dog skills (not because they couldn't begin learn some sense, but because it would be too hard to bring them to classes with qualified trainers). The dog's owner shouldn't have left the dog with friends (relatives? neighbors?) who weren't in a position to supervise properly. The family shouldn't have agreed to look after the dog ... but, realistically, how were they to know?

It doesn't look like this was a food related case. Dogs are extremely variable in the extent to which they guard food resources and their bite inhibition. I believe there are some dogs who would be quite safe with a toddler playing in their food bowl. (My own dogs will allow anyone to take a highly-prized bone or toy out of their mouths). The problem is that people who have grown up with dogs with strong bite inhibition and weak resource guarding tendencies develop an expectation that all dogs are the same way.

[BlackJaq]

The child jumped on the dog, according to the grandfather he heard the dog yelp. The grandfather then went to check on them. This seems like an easily avoided situation to me and food was not mentioned anywhere in this article.

However, it often is an issue, see what happened to Deeon and also the girl killed by pig dogs who supposedly had a pie

Edited October 11, 2013 by BlackJaq

[luvsdogs]

The child jumped on the dog, according to the grandfather he heard the dog yelp. The grandfather then went to check on them. This seems like an easily avoided situation to me and food was not mentioned anywhere in this article.

However, it often is an issue, see what happened to Deeon and also the girl killed by pig dogs who supposedly had a pie

This is what I heard too. If no-one was in the room with the child I don't how they could tell that this is what really happened. Also in one of the articles posted above the dog had done nothing like this in all the years they had the dog. I got the impression that it wasn't a young dog from the TV footage so who knows what physical condition the dog was in. Such a preventable situation.

ETA I've always thought that TV advertisements about dog body language & how to approach dogs & act around them etc, should be shown during children's programmes instead of all those ones on toys & junk food.

Edited October 12, 2013 by luvsdogs

[Alison03]

The child jumped on the dog, according to the grandfather he heard the dog yelp. The grandfather then went to check on them. This seems like an easily avoided situation to me and food was not mentioned anywhere in this article.

However, it often is an issue, see what happened to Deeon and also the girl killed by pig dogs who supposedly had a pie

This is what I heard too. If no-one was in the room with the child I don't how they could tell that this is what really happened. Also in one of the articles posted above the dog had done nothing like this in all the years they had the dog. I got the impression that it wasn't a young dog from the TV footage so who knows what physical condition the dog was in. Such a preventable situation.

ETA I've always thought that TV advertisements about dog body language & how to approach dogs & act around them etc, should be shown during children's programmes instead of all those ones on toys & junk food.

Children are unpredictable, they can get it into their heads to do some silly things to animals, they shouldn't be left alone with any dog, quite often a child can be aware they are not supposed to go near a dog but they can't help themselves. My nephew at the same age as this boy, tried to drag the family dog out from under the table my it's tail, he got a nip for it, could have been far worse. No one seems to know what the child did to the dog but if the grandfather heard a yelp, he must have done something. It's not the kids fault, he was just doing what kids do and it wasn't the dogs fault either.

I like the dog education TV adverts idea, it could be done in cartoon form too.

[Rosetta]

The child jumped on the dog, according to the grandfather he heard the dog yelp. The grandfather then went to check on them. This seems like an easily avoided situation to me and food was not mentioned anywhere in this article.

However, it often is an issue, see what happened to Deeon and also the girl killed by pig dogs who supposedly had a pie

This is what I heard too. If no-one was in the room with the child I don't how they could tell that this is what really happened. Also in one of the articles posted above the dog had done nothing like this in all the years they had the dog. I got the impression that it wasn't a young dog from the TV footage so who knows what physical condition the dog was in. Such a preventable situation.

ETA I've always thought that TV advertisements about dog body language & how to approach dogs & act around them etc, should be shown during children's programmes instead of all those ones on toys & junk food.

Children are unpredictable, they can get it into their heads to do some silly things to animals, they shouldn't be left alone with any dog, quite often a child can be aware they are not supposed to go near a dog but they can't help themselves. My nephew at the same age as this boy, tried to drag the family dog out from under the table my it's tail, he got a nip for it, could have been far worse. No one seems to know what the child did to the dog but if the grandfather heard a yelp, he must have done something. It's not the kids fault, he was just doing what kids do and it wasn't the dogs fault either.

I like the dog education TV adverts idea, it could be done in cartoon form too.

It doesn't even have to be an ad. There are so many missed opportunities to pass on tips on appropriate dog handling on TV shows such as Bondi Vet and Dr Harry segments - yet they never do it, very frustrating.

[Alison03]

The child jumped on the dog, according to the grandfather he heard the dog yelp. The grandfather then went to check on them. This seems like an easily avoided situation to me and food was not mentioned anywhere in this article.

However, it often is an issue, see what happened to Deeon and also the girl killed by pig dogs who supposedly had a pie

This is what I heard too. If no-one was in the room with the child I don't how they could tell that this is what really happened. Also in one of the articles posted above the dog had done nothing like this in all the years they had the dog. I got the impression that it wasn't a young dog from the TV footage so who knows what physical condition the dog was in. Such a preventable situation.

ETA I've always thought that TV advertisements about dog body language & how to approach dogs & act around them etc, should be shown during children's programmes instead of all those ones on toys & junk food.

Children are unpredictable, they can get it into their heads to do some silly things to animals, they shouldn't be left alone with any dog, quite often a child can be aware they are not supposed to go near a dog but they can't help themselves. My nephew at the same age as this boy, tried to drag the family dog out from under the table my it's tail, he got a nip for it, could have been far worse. No one seems to know what the child did to the dog but if the grandfather heard a yelp, he must have done something. It's not the kids fault, he was just doing what kids do and it wasn't the dogs fault either.

I like the dog education TV adverts idea, it could be done in cartoon form too.

It doesn't even have to be an ad. There are so many missed opportunities to pass on tips on appropriate dog handling on TV shows such as Bondi Vet and Dr Harry segments - yet they never do it, very frustrating.

That's very true, I wonder if it's an insurance issue for them, you know the don't give advice thing just in case a kid does what you suggest and it goes pear shaped.

Cesar Milan tells kids "No touch, No talk, No eye contact" with a dog they don't know, which is good advice. I'd like to see something in an advert that says to kids about not being mean to animals, eg "don't pull a cat or dogs tail or ears". Children can be cruel without realizing it and some deliberately cruel.

I had a visitor to my place who brought her 7 year old son with her, he went into the garden where my little dog was, next thing my dog ran onto the deck straight under the table next to my legs, the boy ran up looking a bit strange and my girl started growling at him. Very unusual for her, she loves kids, his mother said very sharply to her son "What did you do, one day you'll get bitten" she seemed to know something I didn't.

I'm very wary with kids, they either treat Bonny like a Barbie or they are too rough with her, squeezing her too hard etc. I'm very watchful with children.

I told my own children when they were very young, that all animals were creatures like we are, not toys, they depend on us to look after them, so we should treat them the way we like to be treated and never be mean to them.

[Rosetta]

The child jumped on the dog, according to the grandfather he heard the dog yelp. The grandfather then went to check on them. This seems like an easily avoided situation to me and food was not mentioned anywhere in this article.

However, it often is an issue, see what happened to Deeon and also the girl killed by pig dogs who supposedly had a pie

This is what I heard too. If no-one was in the room with the child I don't how they could tell that this is what really happened. Also in one of the articles posted above the dog had done nothing like this in all the years they had the dog. I got the impression that it wasn't a young dog from the TV footage so who knows what physical condition the dog was in. Such a preventable situation.

ETA I've always thought that TV advertisements about dog body language & how to approach dogs & act around them etc, should be shown during children's programmes instead of all those ones on toys & junk food.

Children are unpredictable, they can get it into their heads to do some silly things to animals, they shouldn't be left alone with any dog, quite often a child can be aware they are not supposed to go near a dog but they can't help themselves. My nephew at the same age as this boy, tried to drag the family dog out from under the table my it's tail, he got a nip for it, could have been far worse. No one seems to know what the child did to the dog but if the grandfather heard a yelp, he must have done something. It's not the kids fault, he was just doing what kids do and it wasn't the dogs fault either.

I like the dog education TV adverts idea, it could be done in cartoon form too.

It doesn't even have to be an ad. There are so many missed opportunities to pass on tips on appropriate dog handling on TV shows such as Bondi Vet and Dr Harry segments - yet they never do it, very frustrating.

That's very true, I wonder if it's an insurance issue for them, you know the don't give advice thing just in case a kid does what you suggest and it goes pear shaped.

Cesar Milan tells kids "No touch, No talk, No eye contact" with a dog they don't know, which is good advice. I'd like to see something in an advert that says to kids about not being mean to animals, eg "don't pull a cat or dogs tail or ears". Children can be cruel without realizing it and some deliberately cruel.

I had a visitor to my place who brought her 7 year old son with her, he went into the garden where my little dog was, next thing my dog ran onto the deck straight under the table next to my legs, the boy ran up looking a bit strange and my girl started growling at him. Very unusual for her, she loves kids, his mother said very sharply to her son "What did you do, one day you'll get bitten" she seemed to know something I didn't.

I'm very wary with kids, they either treat Bonny like a Barbie or they are too rough with her, squeezing her too hard etc. I'm very watchful with children.

I told my own children when they were very young, that all animals were creatures like we are, not toys, they depend on us to look after them, so we should treat them the way we like to be treated and never be mean to them.

You must have been furious - I know I would be! Unfortunately it is very common for kids - especially boys - to be cruel to animals. It astounds me that parents don't teach them better.

[Alison03]

The child jumped on the dog, according to the grandfather he heard the dog yelp. The grandfather then went to check on them. This seems like an easily avoided situation to me and food was not mentioned anywhere in this article.

However, it often is an issue, see what happened to Deeon and also the girl killed by pig dogs who supposedly had a pie

This is what I heard too. If no-one was in the room with the child I don't how they could tell that this is what really happened. Also in one of the articles posted above the dog had done nothing like this in all the years they had the dog. I got the impression that it wasn't a young dog from the TV footage so who knows what physical condition the dog was in. Such a preventable situation.

ETA I've always thought that TV advertisements about dog body language & how to approach dogs & act around them etc, should be shown during children's programmes instead of all those ones on toys & junk food.

Children are unpredictable, they can get it into their heads to do some silly things to animals, they shouldn't be left alone with any dog, quite often a child can be aware they are not supposed to go near a dog but they can't help themselves. My nephew at the same age as this boy, tried to drag the family dog out from under the table my it's tail, he got a nip for it, could have been far worse. No one seems to know what the child did to the dog but if the grandfather heard a yelp, he must have done something. It's not the kids fault, he was just doing what kids do and it wasn't the dogs fault either.

I like the dog education TV adverts idea, it could be done in cartoon form too.

It doesn't even have to be an ad. There are so many missed opportunities to pass on tips on appropriate dog handling on TV shows such as Bondi Vet and Dr Harry segments - yet they never do it, very frustrating.

That's very true, I wonder if it's an insurance issue for them, you know the don't give advice thing just in case a kid does what you suggest and it goes pear shaped.

Cesar Milan tells kids "No touch, No talk, No eye contact" with a dog they don't know, which is good advice. I'd like to see something in an advert that says to kids about not being mean to animals, eg "don't pull a cat or dogs tail or ears". Children can be cruel without realizing it and some deliberately cruel.

I had a visitor to my place who brought her 7 year old son with her, he went into the garden where my little dog was, next thing my dog ran onto the deck straight under the table next to my legs, the boy ran up looking a bit strange and my girl started growling at him. Very unusual for her, she loves kids, his mother said very sharply to her son "What did you do, one day you'll get bitten" she seemed to know something I didn't.

I'm very wary with kids, they either treat Bonny like a Barbie or they are too rough with her, squeezing her too hard etc. I'm very watchful with children.

I told my own children when they were very young, that all animals were creatures like we are, not toys, they depend on us to look after them, so we should treat them the way we like to be treated and never be mean to them.

You must have been furious - I know I would be! Unfortunately it is very common for kids - especially boys - to be cruel to animals. It astounds me that parents don't teach them better.

Unfortunately I think a lot of parents were brought up with the "Its just a dog" mindset and thats what they pass on to their kids. This woman with the suspect son, has owned two dogs a GR cross and a Cavalier cross, one died from a tick (she said to me that just happens and that tick stuff is so expensive) and the other one she told me was given to a family with more land because it got too big for their property ("who knew she'd grow so big, I wasn't to know Golden Retriever crosses got that big"), the truth was she left the dog at a rescue centre, she didn't want to tell me that because apparently I have "some funny ideas about how important pets are" thats what she told a friend of mine. So that 7 year old son of her's doesn't stand a chance of being a responsible pet owner. Fortunately I don't see a lot of them.

[korbin13]

You must have been furious - I know I would be! Unfortunately it is very common for kids - especially boys - to be cruel to animals. It astounds me that parents don't teach them better.

Kids, especially the young ones, are so unpredictable, the most well behaved children can do things that they can't explain. Having worked with children, even though it was only for a year or two, I have seen some strange things, even from the most mild mannered child!! Which is why it is best to never leave them with animals unsupervised.