Another Child Injured

[Alison03]

No child should be left in close contact with a dog, whether the dog is known or unknown, this sounds like an accident but it's also another instance of a dog carer not knowing the dogs capabilities.

Someone should hold classes for prospective dog owners, give them all mirrors, tell them to look at their own teeth then say "A human jaw and teeth have the power to bite off a human finger", then show them the jaws and teeth of several different dogs, from the largest to the razor sharp teeth of the smallest, then say "Now imagine what these teeth can do to a human". If you own any animal with teeth like this you must have control of that animal at all times or someone will get hurt and it won't be the dogs fault, they are just doing what is natural to them.

I know getting people in a classroom to do this sounds silly but I genuinely don't think some dog owners see their dogs as the predators they are, they see them as friends or their babies ( my girl is my baby) but they mustn't be blind to what they can do if they get pissed off with someone. No dog owner should say "I didn't think he'd do that, he's never bitten before". A dogs teeth tell the story.

YES!!

the terms furbaby, et al tend to numb the mind to dogs' abilities in the hunt/kill category. There are instincts/reactions and the tools to back them up contained within waggy tailed companion .. but with the intense moulding of many dogs to fit into the 'little furry accessory' box ...the predatory ability gets further and further away .. and it is just so sad.

There are many of you here who have working dogs .. who switch 'on' & 'off' ......you can see clearly that which they are capable of .

Somehow Joe/jenny public need reminding of this ...and children need to be kept safe.

It would make sense if they taught something like "dog safety" in pre schools or kindy, without scaring the kids of course. Just simple things, like never approach a dog you don't know or pick up a dogs toy etc.

The course that I outlined for adults might work well also, perhaps for dog owners who have a dog that has bitten someone and who are in trouble with the animal control people. It's the "Furbaby" phenonomen that is getting people injured.

[Alison03]

When will people stop leaving little kids with grandparents when they are also minding a large dog that belongs to someone else? The script for nearly all of these attacks is always the same. So many children scarred for life or even killed and so many dogs pts because they are put in this position. All of these attacks could so easily have been avoided with a little common sense. The basic rule is never allow a dog that isn't yours near any small child. Total separation is the only safe solution.

Where does it say he was left with the grandfather? It says it happened in his home.

The only adult mentioned in the story is the Grandfather so he must have been caring for the child alone or surely other family members would have helped when the dog bit the child. The child was left unsupervised with the dog who was being minded for a neighbour, who is overseas. Apart from the poor child who was bitten, I really feel for the owner of the dog who may not have known that his dog would be in contact with a small child, let alone left alone with him.

I guess the owners of the dog took a chance leaving him with a neighbour, I have had offers from friends to mind my dog while we go on holiday but I have more peace of mind leaving her at a good kennels. It might be too late for this dog now, given the child's injuries, poor little kid and poor dog. : ( A bit of common sense could have stopped this happening.

[grumpette]

It would make sense if they taught something like "dog safety" in pre schools or kindy, without scaring the kids of course. Just simple things, like never approach a dog you don't know or pick up a dogs toy etc.

The course that I outlined for adults might work well also, perhaps for dog owners who have a dog that has bitten someone and who are in trouble with the animal control people. It's the "Furbaby" phenonomen that is getting people injured.

There are programs run in Vic, NSW and SA covering exactly this for both pre-school kids and their parents and primary school kids.

http://www.pets.info.vic.gov.au/

http://www.pets.nsw.gov.au/

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/248905-parents-teaching-their-children-how-to-approach-dogs/

[Alison03]

It would make sense if they taught something like "dog safety" in pre schools or kindy, without scaring the kids of course. Just simple things, like never approach a dog you don't know or pick up a dogs toy etc.

The course that I outlined for adults might work well also, perhaps for dog owners who have a dog that has bitten someone and who are in trouble with the animal control people. It's the "Furbaby" phenonomen that is getting people injured.

There are programs run in Vic, NSW and SA covering exactly this for both pre-school kids and their parents and primary school kids.

http://www.pets.info.vic.gov.au/

http://www.pets.nsw.gov.au/

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/248905-parents-teaching-their-children-how-to-approach-dogs/

Thanks I had no idea, that's very impressive.

[Holmesy]

Sigh.. Yet another non-bullmastiff "bullmastiff" attack. I guess the bullmastiff is the new pitbull as far as the media are concerned. I actually got into an argument with my cousin today when she posted pics of her "bullmastiff" on facebook. It was white with grey splotches and had a bully face, so, clearly a bullmastif!

Another sad incident that could have so easily been prevented.. Will probably cost the bully x-breed its life and traumatize the poor child for life too. I can only shake my head and wonder when people will understand that dogs and children don't mix unless under very close supervision (or at all if you don't want to risk losing your dog at all)

And yes I am biased because I think that I have the gentlest and most easy going bullmastiff alive. I do understand that this breed does have the potential to do a lot of damage in the wrong conditions, however, the recent spate of bullmastiff attacks, are not even purebred bullmastiffs.

[dancinbcs]

It would make sense if they taught something like "dog safety" in pre schools or kindy, without scaring the kids of course. Just simple things, like never approach a dog you don't know or pick up a dogs toy etc.

The course that I outlined for adults might work well also, perhaps for dog owners who have a dog that has bitten someone and who are in trouble with the animal control people. It's the "Furbaby" phenonomen that is getting people injured.

There are programs run in Vic, NSW and SA covering exactly this for both pre-school kids and their parents and primary school kids.

http://www.pets.info.vic.gov.au/

http://www.pets.nsw.gov.au/

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/248905-parents-teaching-their-children-how-to-approach-dogs/

Thanks I had no idea, that's very impressive.

Yes, I have worked as a Pet Educator in schools, teaching 5-7 year olds about dog safety and the kids take info pamphlets home to share with the family but we really need to get to the parents of newborns and get the message out from the very start. Most kids who are bitten are under 5 so parents need to take more care and make sure they instruct grandparents and other relatives who may mind the child about dog safety. Most serious dog attacks on children under 5 seem to happen when they are in the care of others, rather than with the parents. The attacking dogs usually belong to someone else as well. Usually a family member but in this case it was a neighbour. Kids get bitten by dogs all the time in many situations and the fact that dogs, not having hands, have to use their mouth to push a kid away means bites are a fact of life with dogs but most are minor nips or the odd puncture mark. They all count as dog bites in the statistics but are no more serious than a lot of cat scratches. The danger with a large dog and a small child is that it doesn't take much of a bite to do an awful lot of damage and a more serious attack can cause life threatening injuries.

[Alison03]

It would make sense if they taught something like "dog safety" in pre schools or kindy, without scaring the kids of course. Just simple things, like never approach a dog you don't know or pick up a dogs toy etc.

The course that I outlined for adults might work well also, perhaps for dog owners who have a dog that has bitten someone and who are in trouble with the animal control people. It's the "Furbaby" phenonomen that is getting people injured.

There are programs run in Vic, NSW and SA covering exactly this for both pre-school kids and their parents and primary school kids.

http://www.pets.info.vic.gov.au/

http://www.pets.nsw.gov.au/

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/248905-parents-teaching-their-children-how-to-approach-dogs/

Thanks I had no idea, that's very impressive.

Yes, I have worked as a Pet Educator in schools, teaching 5-7 year olds about dog safety and the kids take info pamphlets home to share with the family but we really need to get to the parents of newborns and get the message out from the very start. Most kids who are bitten are under 5 so parents need to take more care and make sure they instruct grandparents and other relatives who may mind the child about dog safety. Most serious dog attacks on children under 5 seem to happen when they are in the care of others, rather than with the parents. The attacking dogs usually belong to someone else as well. Usually a family member but in this case it was a neighbour. Kids get bitten by dogs all the time in many situations and the fact that dogs, not having hands, have to use their mouth to push a kid away means bites are a fact of life with dogs but most are minor nips or the odd puncture mark. They all count as dog bites in the statistics but are no more serious than a lot of cat scratches. The danger with a large dog and a small child is that it doesn't take much of a bite to do an awful lot of damage and a more serious attack can cause life threatening injuries.

I think you are doing the general public a great service, particularly families without dogs, whose children haven't had any real contact with dogs. If you could get pre schools

to have pet educators come in that would help enormously with the under fives.

You are right it's the under fives that seem to take the most risks, they will try to corner a dog so they can pat it, never a good move. I had a 3 year old ( with dummy in mouth) crawl under my table at a cafe on Saturday, my dog moving as far away as she could, I had to grab the child to stop her. I don't think my Shihtzu would bite but I don't take chances. That same day we'd had two positive experiences with older kids (6/7) they seemed to know what to do. Asking me first then holding out the back of their hands, letting my dog go to them ( she was on leash), she was happy to be patted then.

I've seen little kids do awful things to dogs, at family gatherings (not to my dog) tail pulling, sticking fingers in ears, jumping on the dogs back, I have to be the killjoy who says something, then I get told the dog is bomb proof, it only takes one slip up for the dog and it's bye bye doggie. : (

[sandgrubber]

It requires more than teaching kids some dog manners. For one thing, many of the kids who attack haven't even been to kindy yet. For another, to effectively supervise a dog, the adult needs to know something about dog body language, and a lot of the adults simply miss warning signs.

I posted this blog link a few months ago, but it's worth posting again.

http://www.robinkben...k/#comment-2437

Here's an extract:

The bites are not a result of negligent parents leaving Fido to care for the baby while mom does household chores, oblivious to the needs of her children. In fact, I’ve consulted on hundreds of dog bite cases and 95% of the time the parent was standing within 3 feet of the child watching both child and dog when the child was bitten. Parents are supervising. The problem is not lack of supervision. The problem is no one has taught parents what they should be watching.

Edited October 6, 2013 by sandgrubber

[persephone]

It requires more than teaching kids some dog manners. For one thing, many of the kids who attack haven't even been to kindy yet. For another, to effectively supervise a dog, the adult needs to know something about dog body language, and a lot of the adults simply miss warning signs.

I posted this blog link a few months ago, but it's worth posting again.

http://www.robinkben...k/#comment-2437

Here's an extract:

The bites are not a result of negligent parents leaving Fido to care for the baby while mom does household chores, oblivious to the needs of her children. In fact, I’ve consulted on hundreds of dog bite cases and 95% of the time the parent was standing within 3 feet of the child watching both child and dog when the child was bitten. Parents are supervising. The problem is not lack of supervision. The problem is no one has taught parents what they should be watching.

yes!!

Most people are a generation or two removed from DOG as hunter/herder/watchdog who was allowed to bite ........ so they have no idea of how it all works .

It has been said before .. some of us in a certain age group used to free-range around suburbs ..as did neighbourhood dogs . We all learned each others' language .. a lot of , the hard way .. but it stuck, and there were rules around dogs , which we followed , so as not to be bitten !

We saw dogs playing/fighting/growling/guarding /biting/herding ....dog body language was absorbed by osmosis, almost .

[claireybell]

I'm not good at picking body language on other dogs but I know my own. This is why I am teaching my son that he is not to approach any other dogs.

My beagle in particular will put up with a fair amount of crap from my son (not hitting or nasty things but over zealous patting and cuddling) but I know when she's had enough. My cocker just runs away from him, lol. She's only interested when he has a ball to throw for her.

My beagle and my son have a special bond that just melts my heart. He annoys her, she steals his food and they love each other. When my son gets up super early (bloody 5am!) he gets on the couch and curls up in her beagle belly with a paw over him and I put the blanket over the 2 of them. They both drift back off to sleep once the beagle has given him a few kisses and I can enjoy a quiet coffee while I watch them. And heaven forbid if she is next by his side! I hear in a very loud toddler voice "DoDo ome!" (JoJo come), lol

[Alison03]

It requires more than teaching kids some dog manners. For one thing, many of the kids who attack haven't even been to kindy yet. For another, to effectively supervise a dog, the adult needs to know something about dog body language, and a lot of the adults simply miss warning signs.

I posted this blog link a few months ago, but it's worth posting again.

http://www.robinkben...k/#comment-2437

Here's an extract:

The bites are not a result of negligent parents leaving Fido to care for the baby while mom does household chores, oblivious to the needs of her children. In fact, I’ve consulted on hundreds of dog bite cases and 95% of the time the parent was standing within 3 feet of the child watching both child and dog when the child was bitten. Parents are supervising. The problem is not lack of supervision. The problem is no one has taught parents what they should be watching.

I know what you are saying SG, but teaching them the do's and don't's is a good start, you only have a short amount of time to teach a child before they zone out. It's the parents who need educating, but that can't be enforced. I was brought up in the era of free range dogs on the street and I learned quick smart what not to do. Don't run if you get bailed up, don't make eye contact and back away. Never ever walk up to a dog you don't know well.

I'm the one at BBQ's that can see a dog is getting fed up, the avoidance, the quick head movements with a closed mouth, that are going to end in a bite one day. Occasionally another adult will shout "You kids leave that dog alone". I've seen the reverse of that too, the young dog that runs around knocking little kids over, pinning them down mouthing them, the owner who says "He's only playing". A lot of owners see their dogs as four legged humans, not pack orientated predators.

[AussieDog]

People think I'm overreacting when I put our dogs away when other kids come to play, but its just not worth the risk.

I do to. Actually because one of my dog's is naughty and jumps up on people I put them outside whenever we have visitors that isn't family.

[raineth]

No child should be left in close contact with a dog, whether the dog is known or unknown, this sounds like an accident but it's also another instance of a dog carer not knowing the dogs capabilities.

Someone should hold classes for prospective dog owners, give them all mirrors, tell them to look at their own teeth then say "A human jaw and teeth have the power to bite off a human finger", then show them the jaws and teeth of several different dogs, from the largest to the razor sharp teeth of the smallest, then say "Now imagine what these teeth can do to a human". If you own any animal with teeth like this you must have control of that animal at all times or someone will get hurt and it won't be the dogs fault, they are just doing what is natural to them.

I know getting people in a classroom to do this sounds silly but I genuinely don't think some dog owners see their dogs as the predators they are, they see them as friends or their babies ( my girl is my baby) but they mustn't be blind to what they can do if they get pissed off with someone. No dog owner should say "I didn't think he'd do that, he's never bitten before". A dogs teeth tell the story.

YES!!

the terms furbaby, et al tend to numb the mind to dogs' abilities in the hunt/kill category. There are instincts/reactions and the tools to back them up contained within waggy tailed companion .. but with the intense moulding of many dogs to fit into the 'little furry accessory' box ...the predatory ability gets further and further away .. and it is just so sad.

There are many of you here who have working dogs .. who switch 'on' & 'off' ......you can see clearly that which they are capable of .

Somehow Joe/jenny public need reminding of this ...and children need to be kept safe.

I think it's not just that they don't know what to watch for (that is definitely a big part of it though!) but I also get a sense from many people that they believe the family dog should put up with anything.

I walked Digby past a place the other day where a family was out the front with their young son and their dog. The son was deliberately frightening the dog by throwing a basket ball at it and the parents were doing nothing about it. They saw it going on and couldn't care less. This is not the only example I can think of; there definitely seems to be a perception by many that dogs should tolerate any behaviour from adults and children without reacting at all! Ridiculous!

[Loving my Oldies]

It would make sense if they taught something like "dog safety" in pre schools or kindy, without scaring the kids of course. Just simple things, like never approach a dog you don't know or pick up a dogs toy etc.

Oh goody. More for over worked and under paid teachers to do because another "problem" has reared its head in society.

[megan_]

It would make sense if they taught something like "dog safety" in pre schools or kindy, without scaring the kids of course. Just simple things, like never approach a dog you don't know or pick up a dogs toy etc.

Oh goody. More for over worked and under paid teachers to do because another "problem" has reared its head in society.

Where did Alison say that teachers need to do it? Why the need for sarcasm? There are "responsible pet interaction" programs already in schools and it would be good if they were extended. They are run by volunteers, not teachers.

[Alison03]

It would make sense if they taught something like "dog safety" in pre schools or kindy, without scaring the kids of course. Just simple things, like never approach a dog you don't know or pick up a dogs toy etc.

Oh goody. More for over worked and under paid teachers to do because another "problem" has reared its head in society.

I wasn't meaning that teachers should run a program, I was thinking of volunteer groups who could come in and do a short talk about dog safety, say from the RSPCA , I'm just kicking ideas around here, as the only other option is do nothing, which never works.

They used to have road safety talks by a policeman at my boys school ( a few years ago now), after that my kids wouldn't allow me to cross the road anywhere but at a crossing, so those talks really got there attention.

[Alison03]

It would make sense if they taught something like "dog safety" in pre schools or kindy, without scaring the kids of course. Just simple things, like never approach a dog you don't know or pick up a dogs toy etc.

Oh goody. More for over worked and under paid teachers to do because another "problem" has reared its head in society.

Where did Alison say that teachers need to do it? Why the need for sarcasm? There are "responsible pet interaction" programs already in schools and it would be good if they were extended. They are run by volunteers, not teachers.

Thanks Megan, I didn't know they already had those programs in schools, I'm a bit out of touch. : )

[dancinbcs]

It would make sense if they taught something like "dog safety" in pre schools or kindy, without scaring the kids of course. Just simple things, like never approach a dog you don't know or pick up a dogs toy etc.

Oh goody. More for over worked and under paid teachers to do because another "problem" has reared its head in society.

Where did Alison say that teachers need to do it? Why the need for sarcasm? There are "responsible pet interaction" programs already in schools and it would be good if they were extended. They are run by volunteers, not teachers.

Thanks Megan, I didn't know they already had those programs in schools, I'm a bit out of touch. : )

The Pet Education Scheme in schools is run and funded by the state governments. Dogs have to be temperament tested and if they pass, their owners go through a normal job interview process. If selected the owners undergo an intense 4 days of training, are then mentored at their first school visit and assessed by one of the trainers once they have done a few sessions to see if they can continue. They need a police working with children check and have to be able to deliver semi scripted information sessions that have been carefully worked out as suitable for children's ability to learn at that age. The kids then get pamphlets to take home to their parents and we ask them to teach their siblings what they have learnt.

[Alison03]

It would make sense if they taught something like "dog safety" in pre schools or kindy, without scaring the kids of course. Just simple things, like never approach a dog you don't know or pick up a dogs toy etc.

Oh goody. More for over worked and under paid teachers to do because another "problem" has reared its head in society.

Where did Alison say that teachers need to do it? Why the need for sarcasm? There are "responsible pet interaction" programs already in schools and it would be good if they were extended. They are run by volunteers, not teachers.

Thanks Megan, I didn't know they already had those programs in schools, I'm a bit out of touch. : )

The Pet Education Scheme in schools is run and funded by the state governments. Dogs have to be temperament tested and if they pass, their owners go through a normal job interview process. If selected the owners undergo an intense 4 days of training, are then mentored at their first school visit and assessed by one of the trainers once they have done a few sessions to see if they can continue. They need a police working with children check and have to be able to deliver semi scripted information sessions that have been carefully worked out as suitable for children's ability to learn at that age. The kids then get pamphlets to take home to their parents and we ask them to teach their siblings what they have learnt.

What an excellent idea, this program should help kids to become more dog savvy, it's a positive response to the dog attacks that have been happening to children, better than a negative one, like restrictive dog laws. Having the volunteers bring their dog with them will get the kids attention. Anything like this that saves kids works for me. If they could get some parents to attend with their children that would spread the idea even further.

As I said before my two boys had road safety classes in Kindy, they came home with pamphlets and became the road crossing experts of the house. : )

[Kajirin]

The school dog awareness campaigns do work. Mentioned before a while back, but a wandering dog went into the local school the kids had done their dog safety lesson. Instead of crowding around the dog and squealing in delight, they left it alone and went and got a teacher :) Found an old newsletter with some pics and it's on page 2 of the pdf their dog was a standard poodle :D

http://www.houghtonc7.sa.edu.au/pdfs/Term1Week5.pdf