Neighbor Complaining About Barking..

[Trisven13]

I can't believe the attitude to debarking in some of these posts. It is totally inappropriate to advocate such an extreme response to this situation. I can only say I am glad that debarking is strictly controlled when it seems to be the first option considered by some people. I can only recall hearing one dog that had been debarked and it made a hideous noise. It should only be used when the alternative is PTS IMO.

I live with two debarked dogs - one came to me debarked, the other I debarked. The one I debarked doesn't make a hideous noise but can make some noise - more a raspy sound. The other one makes no sound and, when she is in the mood to bark, it is bliss that she is debarked.

I've run an all breeds rescue and never considered debarking any of them, I have lived with many dogs and have only debarked one - some dogs are problem barkers for no good reason other than that they can be. Debarking reduces the stress on the animal (not getting in trouble for barking) and the stress on the owners and leaves everyone IME much happier and calmer. The dog still thinks it is barking but no-one is disturbed.

[rebelsquest]

I can't believe the attitude to debarking in some of these posts. It is totally inappropriate to advocate such an extreme response to this situation. I can only say I am glad that debarking is strictly controlled when it seems to be the first option considered by some people. I can only recall hearing one dog that had been debarked and it made a hideous noise. It should only be used when the alternative is PTS IMO.

I would caution you against thinking the one dog you heard is the norm.

[persephone]

Debarking would certainly be high on my list ..... it would be much less stressful for me in the long run ...and probably for the dog as well .

[mita]

I looked up the Victorian Code re debarking. There has to be written complaints from not less than two occupiers of neighbouring residences. If this woman is hearing your dog barking, even when the dog is not there... & you've never heard a complaint from any neighbours... then her 'word' alone is not enough.

And, if the council has picked up already (& told you) that she's 'odd' ... then she may well have the kind of profile that is hard to shut up her complaining. At the gentlest.... known as 'unreasonable complainant'.

The Code itself points out that most debarked dogs can still be heard up to 20 metres, tho' subdued. Again, this is a lady who even manages to hear the dog when it's not there. And again, typically of people with that profile.... when the council (or you) provides facts that disprove her 'case', then she says she'll go to another authority.... the Ombudsman. As someone else said, that has to be about the council's actions, not yours or your dog's.

Meaning of debarking

For the purposes of this Code 'debarking' means the surgical operation performed by a registered veterinary practitioner to reduce the noise of a dog's bark. When a dog is debarked its ability to communicate with other animals and human beings is reduced. Most debarked dogs have a subdued "husky" bark, audible up to 20 metres.

Circumstances in which a dog may be debarked

This code recognises that debarking a dog may be necessary for therapeutic or prophylactic effects, or as an alternative to euthanasia for a dog declared to be a public nuisance because it barks persistently.

A dog is a public nuisance where – there have been written complaints from the occupiers of not less than two neighbouring residences or in isolated areas two written complaints from persons occupying the same residence, submitted to the Municipal offices, and investigation by an authorised officer of the municipality confirms that despite every reasonable effort by the owner to discourage the dog from barking by considerate care, training and management the dog continues to bark persistently.

Edited September 29, 2013 by mita

[mita]

Double post.

Edited September 29, 2013 by mita

[Rosetta]

I looked up the Victorian Code re debarking. There has to be written complaints from not less than two occupiers of neighbouring residences. If this woman is hearing your dog barking, even when the dog is not there... & you've never heard a complaint from any neighbours... then her 'word' alone is not enough.

And, if the council has picked up already (& told you) that she's 'odd' ... then she may well have the kind of profile that is hard to shut up her complaining. At the gentlest.... known as 'unreasonable complainant'.

The Code itself points out that most debarked dogs can still be heard up to 20 metres. Again, this is a lady who even manages to hear the dog when it's not there. And again, typically of people with that profile.... when the council provides facts that disprove her 'case', then she says she'll go to another authority.... the Ombudsman. As someone else said, that has to be about the council's actions, not yours or your dog's.

Meaning of debarking

For the purposes of this Code 'debarking' means the surgical operation performed by a registered veterinary practitioner to reduce the noise of a dog's bark. When a dog is debarked its ability to communicate with other animals and human beings is reduced. Most debarked dogs have a subdued "husky" bark, audible up to 20 metres.

Circumstances in which a dog may be debarked

This code recognises that debarking a dog may be necessary for therapeutic or prophylactic effects, or as an alternative to euthanasia for a dog declared to be a public nuisance because it barks persistently.

A dog is a public nuisance where – there have been written complaints from the occupiers of not less than two neighbouring residences or in isolated areas two written complaints from persons occupying the same residence, submitted to the Municipal offices, and investigation by an authorised officer of the municipality confirms that despite every reasonable effort by the owner to discourage the dog from barking by considerate care, training and management the dog continues to bark persistently.

My concern is how does it effect the dog mentally when its means of communication is taken away? When people say the dog doesn't notice any difference - how do they know?

And considering the last part about it being the last resort after other means have failed - people here seem to be suggesting it is the solution in this case without any other options being tried.

And - as you note - if the person complaining is hearing the dog when it is not even there then she will still "hear" it after it has been debarked won't she? So what purpose would be served by putting the dog through it?

Not saying there is never a case for debarking but I think it would be rare circumstances that would justify it.

[mita]

Rosetta, I have no problem with debarking (which would better be called pitch lowering).... when there's a genuine case that a dog is impossible to stop from frequent, annoying barking for at least 2 neighbouring residences. Despite all management measures taken. And when the operation is done by a vet experienced & expert in the procedure.

I met 2 tibbies who'd been debarked & I didn't know it. As I said before, I just thought they had 'sexy', husky barks. That's what the pitch lowering does. They were well able to express themselves via a bark. But the high-pitched tones that make a bark carry a long way.... & which are annoying to the ear... were taken out.

Incidentally, women in certain jobs, get their higher pitches lowered, too. Not by surgery but by speech therapy. Maggie Thatcher, the UK politician did. So might newsreaders.

My question in the OP's case, is if the complaining woman fits into a profile that comes up in psychological/psychiatric literature. She's already shown she hears the dog even when it's not there... & is totally resistant to any facts which question her case. As I said previously, the gentlest term used is 'unreasonable complainant' behaviour. Organisations that have to take complaints tend to be aware of people with that profile. Like the Commonwealth Ombudsman has a Mamual for staff on recognizing & dealing with them.

If this woman does fit into that profile ... then not easy to stop her complaining.

So a great deal depends if other neighbours, beside herself, agree with what she says she hears & when. Certainly any application for debarking would need that. And even if that were successful then, as the Code states, debarking doesn't mean that dogs don't make any sound.

Edited September 29, 2013 by mita

[Cody]

Has anyone bothered to read the post where OP said debarking isn't an option???

[Beckybecbec]

Has anyone bothered to read the post where OP said debarking isn't an option???

Nope

[Rosetta]

Has anyone bothered to read the post where OP said debarking isn't an option???

We know that - the discussion has moved on to debarking because people thought that was a reasonable option. It is informative to see information such as Mita has provided.

[WreckitWhippet]

Has anyone bothered to read the post where OP said debarking isn't an option???

Yep but given she's looking for the easy way out, as she doesn't have the time or inclination to fight this, then debarking is a great solution. I can see a dead dog on the horizon

[charli73]

You can buy bark count collars that actually have a counter inside them that count how much your dog has barked. Ask your council if they would be amenable to you getting one?

Council have one and suggested this but said it doesnt tell her how many times in a given time frame the dog barked so they werent going to do this.

Has anyone bothered to read the post where OP said debarking isn't an option???

Yep but given she's looking for the easy way out, as she doesn't have the time or inclination to fight this, then debarking is a great solution. I can see a dead dog on the horizon

Easy way out? I said i didnt have the time or energy for this but defending my dog is my job and spending $3K on an illegal operation to have the only voice my dog has is not an option for my dog or my family. I refuse to harm her or drug her because of one complaint. While I appreciate this may be a solution to some barking dog complaints/nuisance barkers, this is not one of them. If I knew my dog had a problem I may feel differently but I have heard the tapes and been told by council she is not a nuisance barker so surgery seems extreme.

As someone else did we have always checked with all our immediate neighbours to make sure our dogs werent barking (all neighbouring houses have dogs) and this nutter is not in an adjoining house and wouldnt have access to our yard unless she walked down our long driveway.

We will be looking at having inside access to her during the day to minimise noise.

As for council they have told us to keep recording and that this womans so called 'recordings' arent very good, her logs of barking dont match the audio and that it doesnt look very good for her at all.

Were not going to approach her or send her letters, council told me she was so 'stressed out' she was considering moving so move I say.. our happy little dog loving area was great till she moved in..

Edited September 29, 2013 by charli73

[shapeshifter]

I think the council rules and local government acts vary from place to place. I've never heard of "mediation" for dog barking or anything else.

Council rules DO vary from place to place, here in Newcastle, NSW we do have mediation for dog barking.

This is on the council website under the title 'Complaints about dogs':

"Council encourages negotiation between neighbours in an attempt to resolve the problem. Such negotiations can be conducted between each party or with the assistance of an independent mediator through a forum such as a Community Justice Centre"

"If all else fails contact the Community Justice Centre to assist you with mediation or the Chamber Magistrate to discuss a noise abatement order."

I was hoping to not have to go down this path with the dog owners across the road, luckily approaching them once and then putting some 'barking dog' info from K9pro in their letterbox seems to have fixed the problem for the most part.

Edited September 29, 2013 by shapeshifter

[Agility Dogs]

I really for for you, the situation is so stressful.

We have a similar neighbour who defaced our drive way and then left threatening notes in our letterbox when I told him to to touch my drive again.

He has since moved on to complaining about other things (and has complained about just about everyone in our street for one reason or another). Now just smiles and waves as he walks past - NUTTER. Not much help I know, but hopefully things work out for you like they did for us.

[Dogsfevr]

we had a client who boarded there dog after the same issue .

In there case it wasn't there dog barking but it was the only way to prove the point & the council in this case was aware the dog was in kennels.

This may be an option to see if they still complain whilst the dog isn't there .

The OP may not wish to debark but in most cases that is the only option unless people wish to move or retrain & put in alot of effort .

It seems in the case the council is on the OP side so they are lucky but reality is many people don't think there dogs bark alot & we also have own up to the noise & dealing with the issue .

You could also set up CCCTV to watch the dog & see it barking .

You can simply all go out for the day & sit outside & listen for a few hrs

[Leah82]

I understand it must be a very stressful situation for you but try not to worry too much.

As long as the council are on your side there is really nothing this woman can do, she mentioned going to the ombudsman but as someone else has mentioned she can only put in a complaint regarding the actions of the council. As you've mentioned that the complainer has not been in direct contact with you then I'm guessing it was the council that passed this onto you even though that's nothing to do with you.

If audio recordings are not enough for this woman then try webcams, she would be hard pressed to argue that the time-stamp is incorrect when the shadows in the backyard back you up with regards to the times of day :p

At the end of the day you need to push this issue back onto the council, they have determined that your dog is not being a nuisance so there is no need for them to continually contact you when she complains and stress you out even more.

[Guest donatella]

I would take whatever steps were needed to protect my dog from the crazy dog hating neighbour, if it meant debarking then so be it. Compared to a bait tossed over the fence or continual stress caused by harassment from a crazy person debarking is nothing.

I don't think that would solve it, particularly when crazy neighbour has already been caught out complaining about the dog barking when the dog hasn't been there (been out walking). Debarking isn't silencing, I'd hazard a guess she'd still complain about about the snuffled bark the debarked dog would make. Why please a nuisance, she needs to be proven wrong and told to STFU by higher authorities and stop being a neighbourhood pest. If there is a constant neighborhood barker in the area debarking the wrong dog solves no problems.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I may have missed the answer from the OP but what is the reason that the dog can't stay inside?

[Cat]

There isn't one. They said they'd look into it.

[Mystiqview]

Can you organise with the council for a time where you may board your dog elsewhere say for a few days to a week - even have it minded maybe by kennels or a verified minding agency who can vouch your dog was in their care. Work in with your council officer. If she rings and complains about your dog barking, get council to say is "this" the dog barking. If necessary - be prepared for woman to "inspect" your place. If your dog is not there and she can be proven wrong at the same time as saying the dog is barking..... It may be enough temporarily.