Do You Have An Alpha?

[persephone]

Well they've been treated that way since they were puppies so not really any different, just further along in the whole scheme of things is all.

:)

[OSoSwift]

In my house I am the boss and ruler of all things good.

This means food, attention, the lounge etc etc.

I have two food bowls, whoever's bum hits the floor first gets fed first. If one dog growls at the other getting on the lounge the one who growls gets unceramoniously dumped on the floor and sent to sleep on the dogs bed. Privlidges are earnt not a given regardless of where they think they are on any pecking order.

I find things change as dependant on the resource they are wanting. Food, the bitch is the one who will call the shots given half a chance, toys my dog says yay or nay.

At the end of the day I say who gets what and when and anyone who causes an issue gets pulled up quick smart. They usually get put at the end of the line and lose all privlidges for at least a few days or/and until they lose the ego. We rarely have issues these days and they are minor if we do.

[Beckybecbec]

It's the little sister SBT that's the Speed Eating Champion of our house. And she's quite happy to be led away after and sits quietly while he finishes.

And he has never once tried to steal her meal food... Only bones/pigs ears

He was desexed at 5mths

I can see I'm now going to definitely change some ways I've been especially in rewarding, feeding and how OSoSwift corrects behaviors on the couch (and our bed)

[huski]

I don't give any real focus to dominance theory. That's not saying I don't think dominance is real, but there is a lot of confusion IMO about what it is. I control resources and I pay behaviour I want to see, not in any set order or playing to which dog I think could be the 'dominant' one at the time.

Submissive is a choice the dog makes, my Mal will choose to be submissive to other dogs including my beagle a lot. However she's an extremely confident and socially dominant dog. I think sometimes people misread submissiveness as soft or weak just like we get confused about what behavior we label as dominance.

Edited September 24, 2013 by huski

[HazyWal]

Thanks Rebanne... see I thought my thinking made a little sense... there is method to my madness eh? :D

I try the separation thing with pigs ears/bones... this just results in him sitting and stopping his bone/pigs ear and staring at her. Its pretty creepy how long he will sit there...

With dinner though she is a gannet and inhales hers, so I am shaping her to take herself to go and sit in their area (other side of pet gate) till he is done. Up to 10min max is how long he gets his food. Queerly they are civil while eating breakfast and dinner

Is there any reason that you cannot totally separate them ..out of sight? You will find that this removes the stress from them both ..and they eat at their own pace happily ..then, once you pick up bowls and scraps .. they can be in a communal area again .

personally , I think it is unfair to have competitive pups/dogs in sight of others while eating .... ;)

Agree with this. Stan is food aggressive with other dogs, his bowl goes down first in the sunroom while Maddie waits patiently in the kitchen for hers then the kitchen door is closed so she can eat without looking over her shoulder for piggy boy. Bowls are then picked up and they climb up on the lounge together, no stress for them or me :)

[BlackJaq]

Have you considered that your girl may hoover her food because she is afraid he will take it from her?

This can get extremely stressful for a dog, even though you may not notice. It may also create issues in the future, such as resource guarding.

Many things will change once these dogs get a little older and to be honest, I do not envy you for having two dogs so close together in age. Even though your boy is already neutered he will still experience some kind of puberty, as will your girl.

[Clyde]

I don't give any real focus to dominance theory. That's not saying I don't think dominance is real, but there is a lot of confusion IMO about what it is. I control resources and I pay behaviour I want to see, not in any set order or playing to which dog I think could be the 'dominant' one at the time.

Submissive is a choice the dog makes, my Mal will choose to be submissive to other dogs including my beagle a lot. However she's an extremely confident and socially dominant dog. I think sometimes people misread submissiveness as soft or weak just like we get confused about what behavior we label as dominance.

I agree. I think a lot of people are quick to label an alpha dog when the dog is just a bossy boots. Sometimes when push comes to shove I find the bossy, seemingly alpha dog, is not really alpha at all. My old Maremma female is the top dog of the dog crowd here. I dont know if Id call her an alpha, she is not dominant with me at all - but will let me know in no uncertain terms not to do something she doesnt like. I treat her as the top dog too, it's the only way to keep the peace. My Stafford bitch and the old Maremma have 'tense moments' but if it comes to it, the Stafford backs down. She is far stronger than old Snowy physically, but I think she respects that Snowy is older, wiser and a far bigger bitch. I see a truly alpha dog as one who challenges their owner as well.

But in the interest of peace and not creating confusing among the pack, I treat the dogs in the order that they see themselves.

I once had a truly alpha male Rotti. Every day with him was a challenge and sometimes he made my hair stand on end. In the end I lost my nerve with him and he knew it. He was a surrendered foster as the owner didnt want him around their grandkids. Just when I was considering pts a tremendous home came up from an ex police dog trainer in the middle of nowhere in the Snowy mountains so off he went. I breathed a huge sigh of relief to see the back of him. After dealing with him, I dont call many dogs alpha.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Clyde

[minimax]

I don't give any real focus to dominance theory. That's not saying I don't think dominance is real, but there is a lot of confusion IMO about what it is. I control resources and I pay behaviour I want to see, not in any set order or playing to which dog I think could be the 'dominant' one at the time.

Submissive is a choice the dog makes, my Mal will choose to be submissive to other dogs including my beagle a lot. However she's an extremely confident and socially dominant dog. I think sometimes people misread submissiveness as soft or weak just like we get confused about what behavior we label as dominance.

I agree. I think a lot of people are quick to label an alpha dog when the dog is just a bossy boots. Sometimes when push comes to shove I find the bossy, seemingly alpha dog, is not really alpha at all. My old Maremma female is the top dog of the dog crowd here. I dont know if Id call her an alpha, she is not dominant with me at all - but will let me know in no uncertain terms not to do something she doesnt like. I treat her as the top dog too, it's the only way to keep the peace. My Stafford bitch and the old Maremma have 'tense moments' but if it comes to it, the Stafford backs down. She is far stronger than old Snowy physically, but I think she respects that Snowy is older, wiser and a far bigger bitch. I see a truly alpha dog as one who challenges their owner as well.

But in the interest of peace and not creating confusing among the pack, I treat the dogs in the order that they see themselves.

+1

I don't call Max the "alpha" or "dominant", I just used it as an example in here, I refer to her as "bratface" when she's having a moment of being a bossy brat. She will have a stand-off with me, but I always win (well, most of the time - she IS a pug ) but I still don't think that's her being dominant, just testing her pug stubbornness.

[Clyde]

+1

I don't call Max the "alpha" or "dominant", I just used it as an example in here, I refer to her as "bratface" when she's having a moment of being a bossy brat. She will have a stand-off with me, but I always win (well, most of the time - she IS a pug ) but I still don't think that's her being dominant, just testing her pug stubbornness.

Alvin humps Esme's head all the time too :laugh: I'd like to see him even think about humping Snowy

[minimax]

+1

I don't call Max the "alpha" or "dominant", I just used it as an example in here, I refer to her as "bratface" when she's having a moment of being a bossy brat. She will have a stand-off with me, but I always win (well, most of the time - she IS a pug ) but I still don't think that's her being dominant, just testing her pug stubbornness.

Alvin humps Esme's head all the time too :laugh: I'd like to see him even think about humping Snowy

Boston just stands there, or sits there with this confused "what are you doing" look on his face, it's a bit sad really :laugh:

Sometimes if he's laying down he will stand up and she goes sliding off, so I'm trying to encourage him to do that or somehow stand up for himself :p

[Dame Aussie]

In my house I am the boss and ruler of all things good.

This means food, attention, the lounge etc etc.

I have two food bowls, whoever's bum hits the floor first gets fed first. If one dog growls at the other getting on the lounge the one who growls gets unceramoniously dumped on the floor and sent to sleep on the dogs bed. Privlidges are earnt not a given regardless of where they think they are on any pecking order.

I find things change as dependant on the resource they are wanting. Food, the bitch is the one who will call the shots given half a chance, toys my dog says yay or nay.

At the end of the day I say who gets what and when and anyone who causes an issue gets pulled up quick smart. They usually get put at the end of the line and lose all privlidges for at least a few days or/and until they lose the ego. We rarely have issues these days and they are minor if we do.

This is how I like to approach it too. Neither dog is treated differently to the other. If they behave they get what they want. If they don't, they miss out.

[Daisy.Tea]

A little bit off topic. But can I ask how people deal with toy sharing? My older dog use to love her toys until the pup came along. He will play with them by himself but also shove them in her face. Then whenever she gets a toy even if he already has one he will get up and take hers and she willingly lets him now. Though she looks so sad... Wondering if anyone has any tips, I usually take the toys off him or if he is being really horrid he gets crated or put in another room with his own things so the older girl can have a turn.

[Beckybecbec]

A little bit off topic. But can I ask how people deal with toy sharing? My older dog use to love her toys until the pup came along. He will play with them by himself but also shove them in her face. Then whenever she gets a toy even if he already has one he will get up and take hers and she willingly lets him now. Though she looks so sad... Wondering if anyone has any tips, I usually take the toys off him or if he is being really horrid he gets crated or put in another room with his own things so the older girl can have a turn.

Oh this happens daily for us Daisy.Tea :laugh:

The fur-kids just have a stupid amount of toys scattered about the back yard and only a limited amount inside.

It's frustrating because inside Saxon just steal his little sisters toys. He hoards them in front and growls when she comes back to claim one. Typically we unfortunately (for her) take the toys off both for 10min or so then give them back. Some nights it works... Some nights it's a never ending cycle...

[Staff'n'Toller]

There are studies that show us that wolf dog packs live quite differently to companion dogs.

You may be giving clear messages to a bossy little pup that is trying out behaviours to see what works but is not true Alpha material.

It would be wise to remember that the Alpha role can be very fluid in house dogs, it changes hour-to-hour, day-to-day. It's about resources and who is in control of them. It's OK for us humans to say that we are in control of all resources, but in reality, we aren't. There's micro communication going on between dogs constantly. For instance, if the valuable resource is a prime sunny spot in front of the window in the afternoon, we aren't exactly going to go lie down on the carpet and claim the space for hours - we may not even be present in the house at the time.

The safest thing is to reward deferential behaviour, good behaviour, good manners, good settling/calming. All things that you will want to see later. You can reward fastest to comply first- it's safer than 'who I think is the boss at the time'.

Honestly I think you are creating a time bomb because Staffords have strong personalities. Desexed or not, my money is on your bitch becoming boss lady at maturity, by rewarding your Schnauzer you may set up friction (and fights later) where there needn't be. Whatever you do or don't do - they are gonna sort it out themselves anyway once they move through the adolescent stage to adulthood.

NILIF is great, use it on both dogs. Train them both. And don't worry about Alpha's too much.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Staff'n'Toller

[Guest Ams]

My Alpha actually eats last most days. He comes in when he feels like it. He rarely reacts to the other dogs at all and when he does a look is all it takes. He may occassionally have to step it up and growl if a dog ignores him but it is a pretty stupid dog (or one with ideas of grandeur and wanting alpha spot) that does it. Sounds like your pup is a wanna be or a bully.

Lots of great advice given so have fun re-educating him.

[Bjelkier]

My Alpha actually eats last most days. He comes in when he feels like it. He rarely reacts to the other dogs at all and when he does a look is all it takes. He may occassionally have to step it up and growl if a dog ignores him but it is a pretty stupid dog (or one with ideas of grandeur and wanting alpha spot) that does it. Sounds like your pup is a wanna be or a bully.

Lots of great advice given so have fun re-educating him.

Sounds very much like my alpha boy.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Bjelkier