No Help

[bstone7]

Just amazed at how unhelpful groomers are with show people.

No one decent seems to be found on the south side of Brissie who wants to help and the ones who do are said not to be too good to your dogs.

I see no point in spending hours travelling to groomers over the other side. Especially when you consider working five days, spending one day travelling to groomers and waiting around and then showing Sundays. When do you have a life?

All the people showing seemed to have conflicting advise and you have to wonder if they tell you the wrong thing on purpose. But I must admit that there were some funny whinges overheard today

Do all breeds have this problem? Or just poodles?

[SALTWOOD]

Have you ever considered that perhaps they don't have the knowledge you require in order to be helpful??

I am not a professional groomer but I have always attended any grooming seminars that I could find over the years to try to increase my knowledge.

I do not have poodles but I do have a groomed breed and my knowledge has been gained over many years by constant observations and also asking questions of many different and supposedly knowledgeable people, considering their advice and then trying it myself if I think it may be worth trying!!

I have learned the hard way by experimentation because I found no one was going to make it easy for me to be a better groomer than they were, which makes sense if you think of it, as that is the norm with show people.

As you have found, you will not always agree with the advice that is given to you and eventually, if you persevere, you will develop your own techniques to achieve your goals.

[angelsun]

Just amazed at how unhelpful groomers are with show people.

No one decent seems to be found on the south side of Brissie who wants to help and the ones who do are said not to be too good to your dogs.

Poodle grooming is an art, and the majority of groomers are not trained in that field. Many handlers do not take poodle clients due to the highly precise grooming needed to properly present a poodle for the show ring. Most groomers know they are not qualified. Best to have them tell you up front than one that claims to know and you end up with a bedlington clip on your poodle!

I have a lot of respect and admiration for people that are proficient in poodle grooming. I have done some, but because I don't have poodle clients or only handle after they are groomed, I'm not one to jump in and claim that I would put a poodle together for the ring.

Strip a terrier down however...that's another story!

[Nadia]

Presenting any coated breed for the showring is a specialised task.

There are many reasons why Groomers will not take on a show client.

* Not experienced in Show Trim for that Breed (some breeds like Poodles, you also really have to keep up with what is the current trend)

* Not financially viable

* If the Groomer is a Showie themselves it adds another dog to your workload for the weekend.

* Owner non compliance with required day to day care or post grooming aftercare.

Personally I believe if you want to show one of these breeds you have to learn to present them yourself.

Or be prepared to travel distances and spend big money, if you can find someone who will do it for you.

Learning yourself is the best option though, it really is the only way to truly understand the hows and whys of a coat like a Poodle has.

[bstone7]

This is my problem, no one will help me to learn. I have asked if I can watch others do their dogs etc, but no one will even give advise. Their dogs are done by themselves and they purposely give no help. I am hardly a threat, but they just refuse to help anyone.

[Nadia]

bstone,

Did you buy your puppy from a Show Breeder?

Have you asked them for help?

Did they know you wanted to show the puppy?

Just trying to fill in some blanks here.

[bstone7]

I brought him from a breeder who shows. She has his mother, grandmother and sister; but only the mother and sister show now. She told me when I picked him that she would help me with grooming. But, it wasn't until later that I found out I probably know more than she does.

She pays someone fortnightly to do her dogs for her (sometimes weekly) which I just cannot afford. She travels forever to get them done. But if you don't work I soppose you have time to do that, and she can afford to as well which I cannot.

I am seriously thinking of just putting him into a pet clip and doing obedience with him, which is what I did with my last dog. It is a pitty because he really enjoyed yesterday as did my daughter who now wants to learn junior handling.

[bstone7]

I should also tell you that I can't even get someone to help with lines which is what I was originally asking for. I was told not to take any coat from the front when he was in puppy clip ( I was told by my breeder and people from the poodle club). One of the top showing people and both judges asked me why I didn't clip his front to give him shape!!! Makes you wonder if they are just doing it on purpose doesn't it.

[Silverblue]

I can reply from a groomers & exhibitors point of view:

I personally would not do show clips as it leaves yourself wide open for problems

" The dog didn't win because ..........."

Believe me I have heard of alot of problems arising from this.

Also as an exhibitor I personally would prefer to do my own, no one can do it "just the same"

Mind you if your saw my dogs sometimes at a show you would have to but that is due to lack of time to do them correctly, also after grooming other dogs all week the last thing i feel like doing is my own dogs.

It's a shame the breeder can't help you, I had a fantastic mentor when I started who showed me how to clip & groom my cockers, even now she loves "getting at them " with scissorss in hand

Good luck in your search for someone to help you, I would do it, so long as you wanted a 5' blade all over

[espinay2]

As a groomer I would have to agree that grooming a poodle for show is a specialised art and not one that anyone except someone who is proficient in exhibiting poodles themsleves is likely to want to take on. Personally I can do any manner of 'pet' clips on a poodle from a dutch to a sweetheart to a town and country, but a poodle for show? Given the amount of care and precision required, I probably wouldn't take it on either. Now give me a Pyrenean or a Portuguese Water Dog and I'm your girl <vbg>.

Are there any poodle folk around that perhaps would take on the grooming to help you set the pattern and perhaps help teach you how to do it? That would probably be the place I would look rather than a groomer who does not have specialised poodle knowledge. You may be able to pay them to help you out and teach you at least the basics to get you started. Perhaps get yourself a few good books to use as visual guides. Shirlee Kalstone's books on poodle clipping and grooming are excellent.

[bstone7]

Sorry, I shouldn't say groomers as such, but the other people showing poodles. Before I picked up my boy I spoke to a few people who seemed helpful, but now that I have him they aren't.

I have picked up the Shirlee Kalstone book, which is excellent, but I am too scared to start hacking away without someone there who I can ask to check as I go .

Today I was given a name of someone, who hopefully may help, but it depends on if she has time for me. Very busy people.

[poodlefan]

Bstone7:

I see no point in spending hours travelling to groomers over the other side. Especially when you consider working five days, spending one day travelling to groomers and waiting around and then showing Sundays. When do you have a life?

Welcome to the world of show poodles. You definitely have to be masochistic to do it. Most people start by learning from another breeder as it would be the extremely rare professional groomer who can groom a show dog if they don't have them themselves.

Who ever told you that you don't shape the front of a pup was obviously on something!! You dont' tend to trim the hair at the top and back of the neck much but the rest of the dog is trimmed.

Personally, if you don't feel you have the time and money to show this dog, I suggest you learn to pet trim it yourself and then start to use the Kalstone book to experiment with show trimming.

For you next poodle, buy from a breeder that you've seen out at the shows with really well trimmed dogs (that they do themselves) and make sure you reach an understanding about help with show grooming. Most breeders are very keen to sell to good show homes but the reality is that once people realise how much time and effort goes into preparing and maintaining it, they drop out.

Bring on showing in lamb clip!

[blacklabrador]

Why don't you find out who does your breeder's dogs and then go have some lessons from that person?

If you really want to show this dog you can't give up this easily. Believe me there will be bigger hurdles to overcome than this!!! Showing is a tough hobby. You will have to be persistent in finding someone to teach you how.

[Dogsfevr]

I have groomed other peoples dogs for the show ring ,spent hours pretrimming,show trimming & spending hours explaining that this is a weekly job that you make time for.

When they return more than often nothing has been maintained,they havent brought any of the equipment we suggested so you decide not to bother.

The hrs spent you ask minimal pay but give alot of free time that could have been spent on daily choirs or your own dogs.

For example my 2 show dogs at present are trimmed every wednesday(approx 4hrs)pee feathered bath each night to maintain whiteness & coat,pre show day is another 5 hrs bathing etc.

There are dogs that due to time factors we ask they be dropped off & we do up.For a basic pet trim in any breed we charge $40 & that is about 2 & clippers used,so depending on the breed you need to bath first blow dry ,start clipping , hand scissor all up could be 3hrs upwards alot more work & technical detail plus ofcourse acessing the dog faults,movement & grooming according to that as every dog is groomed to enhance,hide & breed standard,very few people want to pay the price of having it done regualry.

I wont have people around when i groom my own dogs for the simple reason they get distracted & when scissoring one wrong move & you have sniped what shouldnt have been,when i trim my dogs its done with time & no distractions,we also use a giant mirror to look at results etc.

I taught myself to trim,no help just trial & error.

What you have to realize is many show people also work & come home & trim there dogs after work or those that do trim there own dogs may not feel comfortable in teaching others as it isnt a week 1hr thing.

By the time they teach you top knots pom poms,tear drop shaping etc etc you are looking at a good month of intense learning & after care advice when you go it alone,to learn to be reasonable i would say is a years exercise.

You brought a breed that was always going to require technical trimming for many many years & for you it is obvious that your breeder wasnt going to be much help if they take theres elsewhere now,its not that simple to say trim abit here or there as to do that requires you to balance the entire trim accordingly.

Maybe try the poodle club of australia site or the poodle club of america site & see if they sell tapes on show trimming

[sidoney]

Out of interest, are there any sites that show examples of the different kinds of poodle clip?

[Dogsfevr]

I think you will there are many sites that will show the trims,i am sure the poodle of australia site would have deteails on trims etc