Digestion Question

[xxx]

Hi everyone,

I have been reading topics under allergies, kibble etc to try to get information that might help me with my dog and vomitting issues.

My 5 year old mini schnauzer has had issues with random vomitting and allergy issues. She has always been an itchy scratchy dog and came home from the breeder on Eukanuba and raw mince. After the recall two years ago I researched Australian made kibble and transferred her to Supercoat sensitive skin and stomach. She has done well on this and definately scratches a lot less. I did ask the breeder if she had the itching problem with her other dogs but was assured that she did not.

Eighhteen months ago we had an issue with vomitting that lasted a week. I fasted her and fed her a bland diet of rice and chicken. The vet took blood for testing which did not indicate anything amiss. The bland diet and a reduction in the amount of kibble fed, when returned to normal feeding, helped. We continued to have one off vomitting episodes once or twice a month. This usually happened during the night some time between 11 pm and 7 am. There has never been bile or froth just food.

Currently she has experienced another week of vomitting mainly on alternate nights, sometimes twice in a row. She has been regularly eating grass. Again I minimised food to wet rice, small amounts only, then introduced boiled chicken. On this diet she was fine for a week and am introducing regular food slowly with one episode of vomitting. At a recent vet check the vet was not concerned and said if it kept up for a month or two it would need to be investigated further.

I have noticed at times that after eating she appears to burp, so I am wondering if there could be an indigestion/reflux problem. Recently she has had quite a bit of stomach gurgling, loud digestion noises. Other than feeling like I need to feed her chicken and rice the rest of her life ( I know this will not contain enough nutrients for her) I'm not sure what to do? I have looked into other Australian kibbles grain free (in case corn could be an issue) but only really came up with Black Hawk. Other than this the dog seems happy, energetic is happy to play and walk.

Would appreciate if any one has any insight for me to this puzzle.

Thanks.

Ausy

[Staff'n'Toller]

Being that she is a Schnauzer, I would have her back to the vet for repeat bloods most importantly including a SpecCPL test. It's the specific test for pancreatitis and it's much more sensitive than it used to be so it will give a clear indication either way.

If you want to stay on dry, you may need to investigate the very low fat prescription diets made specifically for that - if it is indeed a problem processing fats.

If you feel your vet is a bit nonchalant about it, then you can always try another one for a second opinion. But see your regular vet first and let them know you are becoming increasingly concerned about it. :)

[xxx]

Hi Staff'n'Toller

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

I am concerned that maybe pancreatitis could be an issue but I try to feed a low fat diet and she hasn't had any yellow bile/froth in the vomit which seems to be a pancreatitis symptom. In any case I have located a local vet (who has more years of experience than my current vet) and owns a schnauzer himself so I am hoping he will be able to assist us.

The main thing is I AM NOT content to have a dog with random vomitting and family telling me I am over reacting because she just has a sensitive stomach. I will only accept the "sensitive stomach" when other more serious things have been ruled out. If it comes down to a "sensitive stomach" then I will want to work out what things sit right with her because her health and comfort is the important thing.

[Guest hankodie]

Hi xxx, just thought I'd share my experience as it sounds very similar to yours. I'll try not to get into the myriad of health issues my frenchie has but one of the issues she's suffered with since she was a pup has been on and off vomiting/regurgitation which sounds similar to what you are experiencing with your schnauzer - it was almost always undigested food, but the vomiting would occur way after we had fed her. It got particularly bad about 4 months ago and I decided to make an appointment with my vet. He suggested an x-ray barium test to rule out any issues with the way the food was travelling through the digestive system (I think megaesophagus was the main condition he wanted to rule out? as well as some type of congenital blockage/hernia - this is probably inaccurate terminology, I'm just writing from memory).

Thankfully the x-rays came back and everything looked normal, but it was good to rule it out at least. Right now we are treating it as some type of reflux - I'm managing it by feeding smaller meals throughout the day and medicating as needed. She hasn't had any re-occuring vomiting episodes since the last course of medication the vet prescribed, but if it gets bad again then we will look into more testing.

Good for you for wanting to investigate further. i think it's definitely warranted, I know how worrying it is to see your dog throw up repeatedly and you don't know why

perhaps if her blood results came back normal you can try the x-ray route? Just a suggestion, I'm sure other people here would have more knowledge on the matter but just thought I'd share.

ETA: she also burps after eating and when she has an especially bad bout she eats a ton of grass. Hope you work it out soon

Edited September 19, 2013 by hankodie

[will_454]

I had the same issues with our frenchie, and it was definitely food based. She would regurgitate (rather then vomit as she wasn't heaving to bring it up) Royal Canin kibble daily with multiple times a day (just kibble and clear liquid) - the food just didn't work with her, maybe it was too rich.

We tried quite a few kibble options (to also combat itching and allergies) and finally settled on the Holistic Select which worked well with her stomach as the regurgitating stopped and her itchiness went down. She still tends to burp once she has finished eating or drinking, and sometimes a small amount of 'something comes up, but she just swallows it down again so I can not be sure what it is. I think over the last 3-4 months I can count on one hand how many times she has regurgitated again, and it is now only one or 2 biscuits and mostly clear liquid.

I am now looking at transitioning her to a completely raw diet, and changing her from the Holistic Select to a Canidae grain free kibble for emergencies or when we go away and cant take her food.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Hi Staff'n'Toller

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

I am concerned that maybe pancreatitis could be an issue but I try to feed a low fat diet and she hasn't had any yellow bile/froth in the vomit which seems to be a pancreatitis symptom. In any case I have located a local vet (who has more years of experience than my current vet) and owns a schnauzer himself so I am hoping he will be able to assist us.

The main thing is I AM NOT content to have a dog with random vomitting and family telling me I am over reacting because she just has a sensitive stomach. I will only accept the "sensitive stomach" when other more serious things have been ruled out. If it comes down to a "sensitive stomach" then I will want to work out what things sit right with her because her health and comfort is the important thing.

No probs, yes I noticed you said non-digested food which is different to normal pancreatitis symptoms. I know in my clinic we 'just do it' now as the test is quite good and can show a low grade/chronic pancreatitis whereas we couldn't get that sort of info from it before. :)

I've also had good results for itchy/bad stomach dogs with Holistic Select Anchovy and I am thinking it will be my dry food of choice for my new Stafford pup as they do a young dog version as well as adult.

As Hankodie says, you can do further investigation but you may never find the answers you seek. You are well within your rights to ask for a referral to an internal medicine specialist at any time and your vet cannot refuse, however you may do every test under the sun and still none the wiser...as is at the moment with people 'It's IBS if we've ruled out everything else'. There are many humans in the same situation. Hope you find some answers. :)

Edited September 19, 2013 by Staff'n'Toller

[Yonjuro]

My dearly departed (14 year old) mini-schanuzer would get what sounded like very similar symptoms to what you describe, sometimes once a year and occasionally a couple of bouts in a row. We did numerous blood tests, x-rays and ultrasounds (around $2000s worth). The vet thought, pancreatitis, cushings etc but no tests came up positive for any diseases. She did have crystals in her bladder which would sometimes lead to UTIs. Sometimes she would pass the crystals and stones on her own and sometimes we had to get them expressed under general anesthetic. Have you noticed and drops of blood at the end of a wee? I am not sure that the vomiting of partially or undigested food is related to the UTIs but for us it seemed to happen together.

We found that like you boiled chicken and rice with a course of antibiotics would always get her back on track.

I know this post is not of much help but I would be trying a good grain and corn free food like suggested above if I had the time over again. It might be worth considering a raw diet but you would need to be careful that you give enough calcium but not too much as this can contribute to crystals and stones forming. We had to remove bones from my Tessi's kibble diet for this very fact. Having said that, I believe kibble + bones with throw the balance out of whack for a dog that is suffering from these issues. Bones as part of a Prey or Barf diet should be okay but you will just need to be vigilant in making sure you don't overdo the calcium.

I wonder if it might be worth seeing a holistic vet for this?

I should also add that my Tessi lived a healthy and happy 14 years, age finally caught up to her and she was finding it too hard to stand up towards the end, so after trying many things to help her we gave her her wings but that is totally separate to your issues.

I hope you get to the bottom of the issue soon.

[xxx]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your input.

hankodle & will_454 your stories sound very similiar to mine and I'm thinking that I may need to do some trial and error with food and kibble. Thanks so much for posting. It gets pretty frustrating when you get into a pattern of racing out to see if the dogs been sick overnight and the relief when she hasn't.

Staff'n'Toller blood tests and pancreatitis tests will be good to get a picture of whats happening and if negative at least I can try out alternative foods. I will look into Holistic Select. I realise that I may not get a clear answer but am keen to see what the other vet has to say.

Will be seeing the new vet tomorrow.

[xxx]

HI Yonjuro

Thanks for posting. Haven't noticed any blood etc in urine.

I will be carefully looking into dietary issues if any changes are to be tried. I would hate to adjust anything and create another problem hence me following food and allergy posts here.

I do add grated zuccinni, pumpkin soup, cooked carrots etc at times to her food. She has had anal gland issues in the past and the zuccinni/pumpkin have really helped as well as kangaroo chew sticks. The vomitting doesn't seem to particularly coincide with these items. Her kibble contains corn and other grains which I am wondering about.

I have to be careful if feeding bones etc as I can't trust that she is going to "chew, gnaw" them properly. I used to feed her chicken necks which she loved until I found her finishing them quickly. On observation I found she was swallowing them whole so had to stop them.

Until viewing posts I had no idea how many dietry/allergy issues there are amongst our four legged friends. This is quite an education.

Edited September 19, 2013 by xxx

[Yonjuro]

Yep I agree, you need to be quite careful and methodical in your diet changes or adjustments.

Corn is a big one for causing gas and it is one of the major ingredients used in most (but not all) kibbles. Choosing a corn-free kibble might help and it certainly won't do any harm.

Keep us posted on any developments.

[sheena]

Just make sure that whatever kibble you introduce, do it gradually as the better end of kibbles are quite concentrated & take no notice of the feeding recommendations on the packet...your best indication of how much your dog needs, is to look at your dog. :)

[Airedaler]

Personally I would cut out all kibble and put her onto a raw diet but that may not suit you. When your dog burps do you think it could be because she is gulping or eating her food quickly? If it might be worthwhile feeding her chunks of food that she needs to chew more than she is now. Maybe you could also try giving her some slippery elm to settle her stomach.

[2boxer]

My old girl has recurring bouts of pancreatitis, and my boy had food allergies, both did very well on advance turkey and rice.

[soothie]

My 5yo Jack Russel/Staffy X has had very bad stomach issues too since I've had him from 2yo. He isn't perfect but his life changed amazingly when I switched him to Holistic Select Anchovy. I also add probiotic powder to his food at the same time so it maybe a combination.

I sometimes add Fish Oil and Yoghurt to his food as generally this helps through problem periods. He isn't perfect, in fact he is struggling alittle this week, eating loads of grass and a nasty vomit but I find adding the Fish Oil and Yoghurt will help settle things down again. He also has a bad habit of wolfing his food down so I would like to get one of those special bowls.

[xxx]

Hi everyone

Thanks for your posts which have many suggestions that I will be following up ie. checking out kibble varieties that have been recommended.

The vet thought the shnautz looked really well. Think he was wondering why I brought her in. He checked her over and couldn't find anything obvious standing out. Considering she has not had blood work for 18 months he suggested we do that his words were " see how healthy the dog is rather than how unwell". He thinks blood work should be done every 6 to 12 months especially given that one year is 7 in a dogs life. We will be going back one morning as he wants to do the test on a fasted dog. He said if blood work indicated high levels of fat in the blood, an issue with the breed, then a lower fat kibble should be given. Being a vet he recommended Hills.

soothie yes she does seem to be a fast eater and I will look into the bowl you mentioned to slow her down. Like most dogs the food goes down before she tastes any of it. As I said earlier I used to give chicken necks until I saw her swallowing them whole.

Its been good to read your stories and see that dogs like humans can all have great variances in health and well being. Thanks again I really appreciate all information and suggestions.