Genuine Question For Breeders

[Little Gifts]

I was on an international shar pei page on FB today. Generally people post pics of their pei and ask for advice on pei related issues. Sometimes someone will post pics of a new litter they have bred. But today someone I haven't seen before came on and posted they had a litter available for Christmas and then went on and bagged the American Kennel Club saying it was no guarantee of a quality pei, etc. I thought that was weird as I don't think including negative info ever helps sell anything. There was a pic of a litter, which would either make them quite old Christmas presents or another litter was pending. I couldn't help myself and posted that advertising pups as Christmas presents was not a good idea and that to avoid beautiful dogs ending up in the rescue system down the track, buyers should put more thought into choosing a breed and breeders should be scrutinising the buyers so their peibes go to the right home.

The breeder immediately jumped down my throat calling me special names, which indicated they have heard this before. I reiterated that my post was only about the Christmas present message and that I had not said anything negative about the breeder or their dogs and that I genuinely hoped they found great forever homes. I think I posted twice but the breeder posted numerous times spitting venom at me personally. I think they showed themselves as not being the nicest of people to anyone else who read the thread. I can't imagine buying a dog from them and being able to sort out any post sale problems in a pleasant manner.

Anyway I am happy to be wrong about doing this, but here is my position on breeders that I'd like your feedback on so I can become more enlightened:

Unless you are a new breeder building reputation, I assume that a good breeder usually has buyer interest in a litter, sometimes even before they are conceived. I assume that a good breeder likes to assess the personalities of their pups and the needs of a forever home so they can make a good match. I assume that with vet and food and other costs, a breeder does not make a financial killing on having a litter (ie being a good breeder does not equate to being a wealthy one). Given they are not breeding to accumulate great wealth, I assume that a good breeder is only having as many litters as they can manage and as many litters as the breeding bitch can safely manage. I assume that a good breeder gets buyer interest from a range of sources including word of mouth, repeat buyers, advertising on their own website, personal FB page, on dog sites(like here on DOL), in dog mags, at dog shows. For me I personally consider random posts on general pages, Gumtree, newspaper ads, shopping centre notice boards, signs on posts and fences to be slipping below the good breeder line but appreciate that a new breeder does need to spread the word differently. The latter ideas suggest to me that the breeder will sell to the first interested person rather than choose the best new owner from those who express interest. I assume that a good breeder is active in their breed development in some way - reading new material, attending shows, networking with breed specific clubs, that kind of thing. I assume that they are experts in the breed I guess. I assume that a good breeder likes to receive updates on their pups and remains concerned about their health and wellbeing as they grow. I assume that a good breeder has nothing to fear from maintaining contact with a new owner. By that I mean that if they suddenly get an email from a buyer out of the blue they read it with interest rather than trepidation.

There are probably other assumptions I have, but is this too much? Am I off track? Am I wrongly assuming that a good breeder is as passionate about breeding dogs as I might be about owning one? And am I wrong in assuming that cashing in on the festive season does not look professional or value the actual animal?

Edited September 16, 2013 by Little Gifts

[indigirl]

Nope you have it right :)

The only place I advertise my pups is dogzonline.

[Little Gifts]

My assumptions are also why I cannot understand why people buy from pet shops, puppy farms and BYB's. Look at what you get for your money and I haven't even touched on the quality of the dogs! Why the hell would you rip yourself off at a pet shop when you could get all this for similar or even less? Are we really so impulsive we couldn't wait for the right dog?

While I am an active supporter of rescue I am also 100% in support of good breeders and well bred dogs.

[minimax]

My assumptions are also why I cannot understand why people buy from pet shops, puppy farms and BYB's. Look at what you get for your money and I haven't even touched on the quality of the dogs! Why the hell would you rip yourself off at a pet shop when you could get all this for similar or even less? Are we really so impulsive we couldn't wait for the right dog?

While I am an active supporter of rescue I am also 100% in support of good breeders and well bred dogs.

If quality breeders don't advertise where "normal" people look, how will "normal" people ever find a quality dog? I doubt many people who want a pet dog would be looking through online pedigree dog ads, but they might look at gumtree/etc, so if a pedigree breeder is advertised there, perhaps they have captured someone that might have otherwise only seen ads for BYB dogs?

[Little Gifts]

Excellent point Minimax! This is what I'm talking about. It is easy to develop assumptions and I guess I'd like to have my mind a little more broadened. Some more common breeds are also going to have more competition so a breeder would need to stand out amongst a bigger crowd and take advantage of a range of advertising options that are accessible to their target market.

[Sares]

My assumptions are also why I cannot understand why people buy from pet shops, puppy farms and BYB's. Look at what you get for your money and I haven't even touched on the quality of the dogs! Why the hell would you rip yourself off at a pet shop when you could get all this for similar or even less? Are we really so impulsive we couldn't wait for the right dog?

While I am an active supporter of rescue I am also 100% in support of good breeders and well bred dogs.

If quality breeders don't advertise where "normal" people look, how will "normal" people ever find a quality dog? I doubt many people who want a pet dog would be looking through online pedigree dog ads, but they might look at gumtree/etc, so if a pedigree breeder is advertised there, perhaps they have captured someone that might have otherwise only seen ads for BYB dogs?

I totally agree with you Minimax.

The problem with the generic websites like gumtree or trading post is the amount of scammers and BYB who also advertise saying the dog comes with 'papers' and had vet checks etc but are often very vauge as to what these entail.\ I guess its difficult for the average person to be able to tell the difference if they dont have much to do with the dog world. Its the scammers and BYB'ers that make finding a quality dog hard to do, which is a real shame.

[Angeluca]

I have decided to breed my girl back to back. Her last litter was April.

The pups went to homes late may beginning of June it took us a month or so to decide to back to back. The first reason is because the bitch did so well, second reason is I kept a pup from that litter and it was decided another follow on would be good to expand my kennel. This was my first litter and I started with just my male and my girl and have kept one of their daughters. We have a very good complimentary male lined up for my girls second litter.

Due to my location I don't have access to 1 hour prog results, its an over night sent away thing. This along with my bitch having a split season and breeding on day 40 (since first show of blood, but day 10 on second clear show of blood)

My litter will be due if everything is successful 12th Nov so litter will now be able to be homed around 7th jan pending actual date of birth. God I was sooooooooo ect relieved. My first question when she came in season the first time to my mentor is what do I do about the Xmas puppy buyers. she would have been due late oct putting puppies able to be homed xmas week.

I have been lucky and a couple of my pups from last litter have had great public interaction that I am starting to develop a waiting list but there is 3 on there now. Ruby's last litter was 8 and I keep 1. I was terrified of the whole idea of selling and advertising any pup at this time of year. My mentors advice is hold them until the new year regardless maybe let the one on the waiting list have thiers but all others are to wait. She has a litter due a week before and will hold them until the new year as well. Any one not willing to wait just that week or 2 would just have to go else where.

She has also told me that I may find people not ready for a pup due to holiday trips during that week and will ask me to hold until the last week of the holidays. "the last big family outing before they have a young dog, that consumes time and money" thing. This I am more than willing to do.

I advertise in a number of places I don't have a reputation yet (but getting one a very good one it seems) and I can't rely on word of mouth and this website alone.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Angeluca

[Alyosha]

To all your assumptions - yes.

In saying that, I will have a litter ready to leave home near Christmas this year - but the thought horrifies me! Why oh why did she come into season over a month early??? I feel like a right tool. But yes it has been years in the planning, yes there is interest already, etc etc. And yes, it will certainly cost me a fortune - not to mention I have had to buy leave from work and will be paying that back for well over a year as well! The timing, to my mind, is bad. I was actually hoping for them to be born just before Christmas so pups and my leave would co-incide with school holidays as the kids love to be involved.

Plus it will have been nearly 2 1/2 years since my last litter - it's taken me that long to feel ready to go again! It's an exhausting and expensive exercise. Hugely rewarding, but utterly exhausting... :laugh:

But I also had a very large litter last time. In a breed that can be hard to find suitable homes for, that's a scary thought in itself. I have only advertised on Dogzonline previously, but wouldn't rule out more generic sites. Homes can still be screened the same - but you may just find that extra perfect home that might not know about DOL... Many pet buyers turn to generic sites first. I think our carefully bred pups not be on there waving their flag alongside the byb and mixed breeds - it's all about positive exposure.

[LisaCC]

My assumptions are also why I cannot understand why people buy from pet shops, puppy farms and BYB's. Look at what you get for your money and I haven't even touched on the quality of the dogs! Why the hell would you rip yourself off at a pet shop when you could get all this for similar or even less? Are we really so impulsive we couldn't wait for the right dog?

While I am an active supporter of rescue I am also 100% in support of good breeders and well bred dogs.

If quality breeders don't advertise where "normal" people look, how will "normal" people ever find a quality dog? I doubt many people who want a pet dog would be looking through online pedigree dog ads, but they might look at gumtree/etc, so if a pedigree breeder is advertised there, perhaps they have captured someone that might have otherwise only seen ads for BYB dogs?

A new friend of mine, who previously lived in Melbourne was really interested in how I found my puppy. Then after finding out that a lot of people avoid the petshop here that sells puppies, asked me how do people get their dogs if they aren't in petshops? I was really shocked, as she is actually a very animal savvy person.

So yes I don't think 'Normal' people look at specific breeder websites like Dogzonline all that often.

[Airedaler]

Way back in the olden days when I started breeding (1970's) it was the norm to advertise puppies in the daily papers. Often even long standing breeders did not have whole litters sold pre breeding. I see noting wrong with advertising on Gumtree or Trading Post or other similar venues as Minimax says how do we capture the market if people don't know. The issue with screening is what it is all about and a responsible breeder will do that wherever the puppy enquiry comes from. Personally I do not see DOL as being any different to Gumtree or the Trading Post...all are advertising portals.

Generally speaking I believe most breeders have litters when they want something to keep. Obviously this in most cases means there will be puppies on the market from those litters if that happens to be around Christmas then so be it but I agree with OP advertising as Christmas presents is not a sound practise.

Even when a whole litter is booked before they are whelped there are times when a booked sale does not go ahead for various reasons. People often book a pup with multiple breeders and depending on which arrives first may cancel a sale so I'd not be put off by website or paper advertising.

Nor would I say all breeders doing what is perceived to be the right thing are "experts on the breed" most think they are but that is quite subjective in my opinion.

[Rebanne]

I am a good breeder but not according to a few people here in this thread! I don't have homes lined up for pups before they are born and I advertise everywhere. I don't care where the homes come from, they are all vetted the same way.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

FB is a useful tool for bringing together not just the very best of the breed but the very worst too. I think most breeds have fruitcakes flogging litter after litter of hard to sell puppies on FB - I know we do, and it breaks my heart. However, they are a tiny minority when you consider how many breeders there are world wide. They often take up much more space than they deserve, and I'm not convinced it's worth engaging with them - especially not when they have an audience to play out their long ago scripted dramas to.

If I could give advice to people entering the "breed" groups it's to join a few, and watch, and listen, and take notes - there is some great info there. But think carefully about stepping into hot areas in what can be a byzantine system of codes, history and allegiances. Someone who has been "rejected" by the system - whether it's their KC revoking their membership, or the community of their peers getting sick of cleaning up after them, or whatever - is not usually going to be in the mood to listen to some hints and tips on best practice. We have one in particular who is incredibly charming, his supporters can never believe all the "terrible" things people say about him - until he unleashes one of his profanity laden paranoid rants at them, and then they finally get it. So all is not what it seems - sometimes the ones who are saying all the right things are lying through their teeth too.

Edited to make it clear I'm talking about the global FB community.

Edited September 16, 2013 by SkySoaringMagpie

[SkySoaringMagpie]

On the subject of timing and numbers, I have never tried to "hang on" to bookings for companion homes. I breed infrequently and have had a few false starts over the last 3 years. There is no way I would expect a companion buyer to wait 3 years for me to get through a difficult patch with my program. So I often refer buyers to other breeders. This means that usually my list of bookings at any one time is small. This litter I have now, while I had people who wanted one of mine, I had to refer them off again, as I only had two and I'm running them both on. So I don't agree with the idea that you should have everything pre-sold before having a litter because apart from anything else, it's not really fair on the companion buyer.

I do think that if you start to put pressure on your breed community by breeding more litters than anyone wants from you, then that is a problem. But the two things are not the same. Some breeders have a name and a ready market for what they supply (performance, high health/rearing standards, reputation and/or show). And some don't and don't let it slow them down - but that last group really is a minority of breeders.

As for Christmas, bitches come in season anything from once every 6 months to once every couple of years. They tend to be as inconvenient as possible and I think someone who wants a pure bred enough to get one from a breeder shouldn't worry about the fact that the litter is ready at Christmas time.

EFS

Edited September 16, 2013 by SkySoaringMagpie

[Agility Dogs]

Why the hell would you rip yourself off at a pet shop when you could get all this for similar or even less? Are we really so impulsive we couldn't wait for the right dog?

In some cases we are ignorant. People who buy from pet shops are not all impulsive. In some cases they have no idea of how the pedigree world works and once they have done the rounds of rescue and not found the dog that they want they go to a pet shop - if they are none the wiser about all the issues that are spoken about on this forum.

I'll put my hand up and admit to being one of these people.

When I got my first two BC puppies from the same pet shop I had no idea about any of this, I just knew that I had been to the RSPCA and they didn't have any border collies so I went to a petshop that had advertised them.

5 months later with only one puppy I started to learn. 7 years and two pedigree dogs later I now have a fair understanding of where dogs come form and how of to find the one you want.

[Dame Aussie]

My assumptions are also why I cannot understand why people buy from pet shops, puppy farms and BYB's. Look at what you get for your money and I haven't even touched on the quality of the dogs! Why the hell would you rip yourself off at a pet shop when you could get all this for similar or even less? Are we really so impulsive we couldn't wait for the right dog?

While I am an active supporter of rescue I am also 100% in support of good breeders and well bred dogs.

If quality breeders don't advertise where "normal" people look, how will "normal" people ever find a quality dog? I doubt many people who want a pet dog would be looking through online pedigree dog ads, but they might look at gumtree/etc, so if a pedigree breeder is advertised there, perhaps they have captured someone that might have otherwise only seen ads for BYB dogs?

Yep. There was a recent thread about someone getting no response to their email about a puppy.

It's all well and good to promote purebred dogs but if people don't even get a response can you blame them for going elsewhere?! I certainly can't.

[Dogsfevr]

Advertising is an avenue to the public

Selecting the right owners is a whole different package.

I have often read DOLERS post i wouldn't buy from someone who advertises in the paper & when asked why can't give a decent answer but the sad part is if that person tells other people its like a bad case of "chinese whispers" & people then presume other sources are better guaranteed .

i wouldn't even guarantee some of the DOL breeders but its a good avenue like any other advertising site

As for emails so many of our inquiries go to the junk folder because there email addresses are so odd the anti virus kicks in.

We get atleast 10 emails a week with

Do you have pups.

There is no name attached no nothing .

Many emails sent are very specific & require time for the answer .

We have also experienced sending emails back only for there account to be full & it bounce back,infact this happens alot .

Some people also want a response that day & it just doesn't happen.

Breeders do have lives there life isn't selling puppies & sitting at the computer 24/7.

My personal fav is people that leave phone messages & you can't understand there message so can't phone them back as its a private number or you recall the number called & its work & no one nows who you are after .

Then you get the family members who are all emailing but haven't told each other & in the end each one gives a different story & you have no clue who is who & what is ligit

Its not easy either way

The olden days where so much better people phoned you discussed what they where after & could talk about the breed & both parties get a good feel of each other luckily we get alot more phone inquiries than emails & can assist in other breeders or even other breeds if the breed in question isn't the right fit

[Steve]

Everyone has to be taken on a case by case basis - not everyone has the same resources and not everyone breeds for the same goals.Not everyone has websites and want everyone on their doorstep unless they actually have puppies. I used to keep a waiting list until we worked out sometimes I had over 100 names on it most of which are no longer still wanting one of our puppies when we finally have a litter and breeding isn't just about placing an order for X males and Z females etc either. So I have a litter of a dozen and I may have one or two now and then I have to advertise to let people know I have them and as I breed working dogs most peopel shopping for working dogs dont know about dogzonline. Its a bit silly to assume that someone who advertises on dogz is automatically a good breeder and someone who advertises anywhere else isnt. Ive met a breeder recently who takes deposits on puppies up to 18 months before they are born so she knows when she goes back to the list they are genuine or they loose their money - thats way too scary for me and I might consider a deposit or two when I have a definite pregnancy but taking people's money in the hope that everything goes as you expect is out of my comfort zone.

I don't care how someone finds me they are all treated the same and no matter what time of year it is no puppy goes home to just anyone.

From a personal point of view I love puppies and so do my kids and I like to take some time to bond and get to love a new baby so Christmas time is the time I would prefer to buy a puppy and bring it in when the kids are on school holidays and being up front about a pup being ready at Christmas time would turn as many away as it would attract them - because taking a new pup at christmas time will suit some and not others - some will be at home for Christmas other wont - whilst I've heard about the people who buy puppies for presents and then dont want them after Christmas that hasn't been my experience. The other big deal is that spring time and early summer is breeding time and there are more dogs pregnant and more puppies bred at that time of year anyway.

On another note - I have met registered breeders who have a litter of puppies and because of assumptions about where a "good breeder" should advertise and how a good breeder should have people lined up for puppies etc and only advertise on dogz are too afraid to do what they need to do to let people know they have a few puppies for sale.I watched as one breeder sold her puppies to a dealer to go to a pet shop where no one would ever know she had bred them and I was told that was pretty common. Ive spoken with registered breeders who have their puppies put to sleep rather than be seen to be a bad breeder and advertising.

A good breeder is many things but one of them is that it is someone who cares about where their animals go and tries their hardest to get it right and if they are involved in the vetting of the buyer, educating them, and being responsible for finding new homes for them rather than killing them, or selling them to pet shops or agents, or dumping them on rescue or a pound,or selling them to anyone who asks I reckon where and how they advertise is not really counted.

[Angeluca]

Everyone has to be taken on a case by case basis - not everyone has the same resources and not everyone breeds for the same goals.Not everyone has websites and want everyone on their doorstep unless they actually have puppies. I used to keep a waiting list until we worked out sometimes I had over 100 names on it most of which are no longer still wanting one of our puppies when we finally have a litter and breeding isn't just about placing an order for X males and Z females etc either. So I have a litter of a dozen and I may have one or two now and then I have to advertise to let people know I have them and as I breed working dogs most peopel shopping for working dogs dont know about dogzonline. Its a bit silly to assume that someone who advertises on dogz is automatically a good breeder and someone who advertises anywhere else isnt. Ive met a breeder recently who takes deposits on puppies up to 18 months before they are born so she knows when she goes back to the list they are genuine or they loose their money - thats way too scary for me and I might consider a deposit or two when I have a definite pregnancy but taking people's money in the hope that everything goes as you expect is out of my comfort zone.

I don't care how someone finds me they are all treated the same and no matter what time of year it is no puppy goes home to just anyone.

From a personal point of view I love puppies and so do my kids and I like to take some time to bond and get to love a new baby so Christmas time is the time I would prefer to buy a puppy and bring it in when the kids are on school holidays and being up front about a pup being ready at Christmas time would turn as many away as it would attract them - because taking a new pup at christmas time will suit some and not others - some will be at home for Christmas other wont - whilst I've heard about the people who buy puppies for presents and then dont want them after Christmas that hasn't been my experience. The other big deal is that spring time and early summer is breeding time and there are more dogs pregnant and more puppies bred at that time of year anyway.

On another note - I have met registered breeders who have a litter of puppies and because of assumptions about where a "good breeder" should advertise and how a good breeder should have people lined up for puppies etc and only advertise on dogz are too afraid to do what they need to do to let people know they have a few puppies for sale.I watched as one breeder sold her puppies to a dealer to go to a pet shop where no one would ever know she had bred them and I was told that was pretty common. Ive spoken with registered breeders who have their puppies put to sleep rather than be seen to be a bad breeder and advertising.

A good breeder is many things but one of them is that it is someone who cares about where their animals go and tries their hardest to get it right and if they are involved in the vetting of the buyer, educating them, and being responsible for finding new homes for them rather than killing them, or selling them to pet shops or agents, or dumping them on rescue or a pound,or selling them to anyone who asks I reckon where and how they advertise is not really counted.

Pretty sure that's illegal. If you take a deposit and you or the other party decide not to go through with it at anytime prior to the collection of the deposit it has to be explain that some of the deposit may be retained if the buyer calls the deal off. This has to be a reasonable amount such as the re-advertisement fees ect.

For example I have a common and sort after breed so I can expect a lot of calls for pups. I do ask for a deposit as one small part of sifting though the keen/ spare of the moment/ and committed buyers. I do not collect prior to having the pups on the ground. My policy is approx 15% of the asking price not neg. the deposit is fully refundable until the pups are 6 weeks of age. After that I will retain 25% of the deposit should the buyer decide against having the pup. This is for re-advertising and adjustments (bank fees, phone calls).

I decided for it to be at 6 weeks for 2 reasons, one usually the litter will be sold by this time and advertising revoked. Secondly and more importantly I want to know who is serious when I start assessing the pups for their homes. Not all pups within one litter are ok for every person who buys a pup. Temperaments need to be assessed, homes have requirements (small children, active lifestyle, elderly). And yes 1 cancellation can throw a spanner in the works. A full refund at anytime if I was to decide not to sell. And the reasons possible were death or injury of a pup, pup not deemed healthy genetically and/or physically and/or mentally, not suitable for their needs by my assessment ect.

My last litter I had a family keen for my blue boy. and while it was suited he was an exceptional pup. I had another family who had a child medical issue in the family and Blue would have suited them to the T. However their Doctor advised them that is wasn't a good idea. whilst i don't think the doctor valued the companionship a dog could provide this child it was their choice and I respected that however they respected me and made sure of all this was sorted before the 6 week mark and decide to pull out with a full refund. also had another pull out due to it being an impulsive buy and they forgot they were going overseas 6 mths later. (don't ask me how they forgot) But this was also sorted prior to 6 weeks and refunded in full.

I made sure before any acc details were handed over that the buyer knew the process by telling them and in the email with my acc details in it (for a written record).

I didn't have any issues with this. My point is I don't think you can legally retain the entire deposit unless the process has caused you substantial financial grief to the amount or more the the deposit at their direct fault. Selling the pup to someone else at the same amount would not qualify.

[Steve]

Any two adults can enter into a contract and if you hand the money over knowing what that means if you pull out its not illegal for the breeder to keep your money as long as the rules weren't changed after you paid it and made your agreement.

As I said I dont do it - Ive been around long enough to know what may go wrong and its too much stress for me but its difficult to see how everyone seems to want it both ways too. If we are to be perceived as bad breeders if we dont have buyers lined up for our pups and bad breeders if we get to a point where we need to advertise on free websites rather than just dogz then surely it is understandable if a breeder wants a guarantee that all pups are spoken for before they do the mating and take deposits to be sure isn't it?

[Angeluca]

Any two adults can enter into a contract and if you hand the money over knowing what that means if you pull out its not illegal for the breeder to keep your money as long as the rules weren't changed after you paid it and made your agreement.

As I said I dont do it - Ive been around long enough to know what may go wrong and its too much stress for me but its difficult to see how everyone seems to want it both ways too. If we are to be perceived as bad breeders if we dont have buyers lined up for our pups and bad breeders if we get to a point where we need to advertise on free websites rather than just dogz then surely it is understandable if a breeder wants a guarantee that all pups are spoken for before they do the mating and take deposits to be sure isn't it?

I see that you don't embark on this prior to birth process and isn't directed at you but the process it's self.

Firstly your first sentence. It would only be legal if the breeder expressed that the deposit was nonrefundable prior to handover but even then in my recent case studies I have seen this sort of contract over turned to to the law of equity. One for the seller being in a better financial position then before the contract (pending if they could easily sell to someone else without to much effort) Happens with second hand car sales all the time. (for those I only reference an inanimate object in reference to the law, which visualizes the sale of dogs in the same way. Not my personal belief) and secondly it's not common within the retail industry to retain full deposits so unless the breeder expressed in writing it so stands a good chance to be over turned.

As for your last I'm not sure honestly, just like the whole legality of dogs shouldn't be within the same league as selling cars or tvs. A car or Tv can be all but guaranteed to be manufactured if a deposit was placed dogs can definitely not. There is no way to make sure that amount of pups are born or even to make sure the bitch conceived and whelped and raised all those paid for puppies. Yes companies can go in to receivership go bankrupt and so forth but it isn't very common and would be considered a very minimal risk. But placing deposits on not yet conceived pups? How would a breeder know how many deposits to take? and what of the disappointment or despair of those wait who miss out and what of their deposits? How long were they waiting? To enter into such contract what would be a reasonable waiting period to receive their part paid for product? (speaking legally).

Obviously to those on a waiting list sometimes get disappointed to. But they are not placed at any risk financially. So while it is sad and disappointing it is also to bad because no promise or contract was made. You can not go to Sony and place a deposit on a TV that might get made in the future sometime maybe 5 yrs from now with no certainty of even being considered. That's ridiculous and it would be consider the same financial value legally.

Now on my personal views I think it would also be cruel to a puppy owner to require a deposit on that same situation. This is a potentially their next love of their lives and every time the breeders bitch got pregnant their hopes would be lifted only to miss out due to whatever reason (cause there are so many to list) and this could happen over and over again. And that puppy buyer may feel obligated to keep waiting and waiting turning away from other suitable pups because they can't get out of their contract without financial loss. That hardly seems fair nor legal. And I think this would cause more problems with just going to a pet shop/byb if this sort of situation became common within the purebred world.

I understand that a breeder may wish some certainty as well and there is so much heartache they go though. But they chose to breed and they chose that breed of dog knowing they can't keep and entire litter so they rely on the public for placing the other pups. Just as we know we can loose our bitch if something goes wrong and there is no one to blame but ourselves cause it was our choice to breed her. Not hers and not the public. It's a choice we make everytime we plan a litter and it is on our heads to do what we can to place those puppies not 'dangle a mouse in front of a cat' just because it makes us feel better about what we do. And that's why I don't think it is a good idea to have deposits prior to birth.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Angeluca