Importing From The Us May Have Just Got 'harder'

[espinay2]

New APHIS regulations in the US will restrict breeders from being able to transfer pups 'sight unseen' (i.e. unless the new owner has visited and seen a pup/dog in person).

Wondering at the moment on the possible 'unintended consequence' of this for Australian breeders. No more importing from the US unless you make the trip to see the dog in person first?

http://www.akc.org/governmentrelations/usda_aphis.cfm

[Trisven13]

Wow that is tough!!!

[Kirislin]

I wonder why photos and videos wouldn't suffice.

[espinay2]

Have done a bit more research and hopefully it will not be the case. P 7 of this document says

this rule will only affect those dog breeders who sell dogs as pets, not for hunting, security, breeding, or other purposes; who maintain more than four breeding females on their property; and whose buyers are not all physically present to observe the animals prior to purchase and/or to take custody of that animal after purchase.

But who knows how this will actually be applied and whether that means that a dog sold for breeding purposes will or will not have to be visited in person.

[Pjrt]

What are they trying to prevent here? Mass export of puppies for the international pet trade??

Edited September 12, 2013 by skyefool

[Diva]

I think it is targeting the impulse buying of the mass on-line pet market, which is a good way to impact the business model of large scale puppy famers. If the exceptions work well it might be OK.

Like most others I visit a number of overseas kennels with great dogs, if I import a pup it will be based on knowledge of the line and the quality of the breeder but I might not visit just to see that litter. Hopefully this change won't make that a problem.

[espinay2]

From what I gather they are trying to prevent puppy mills selling pups over the internet sight unseen. The rest is being caught up in the wake.

[Pjrt]

So if a pet owner on one side of the US wants to buy XYZ breed from a reputable breeder on the other side of the country, just as a pet, they will have to fly across the country to see the dog?

I understand they are looking for ways to stop the mess of puppy mills (registered breeder puppy mills in this case) and online sales etc, but I can see this as possibly 'forcing' pet buyers to look closer to home and maybe end up with lesser quality, different type, different breed, or BYB. Or unscrupulous breeders selling pets as 'breeding' animals etc

It's just crappy that good breeders end up having to jump through hoops to try to put an end to this trade.

[espinay2]

That is pretty much the size of it. Unless the buyer meets the breeder and puppy in person prior to or at time of sale, then no sale.

[Pjrt]

That is pretty much the size of it. Unless the buyer meets the breeder and puppy in person prior to or at time of sale, then no sale.

Crikey!

[Agility Dogs]

I'm thinking about getting a pup from the US, no real problems with this. Surely you'd want to go and spend some time with your pup early on?

I get why people might have an issue, but can't imagine not seeing my puppy in the flesh before 9 or 10 months.

ON a side track.....what about importing semen.

[Alyosha]

There's been much discussion of this on a US breed list that I'm on. There is a clause for another person to see the pup on behalf of a buyer, like an independent person. Sort of an agent thing.

Plus there is some confusion over who is subject to the rules, those with less than four breeding females are not required to be licensed? And no one has specified what age groups the definition of breeding females covers either. It may well be based upon the opinion of the AHPIS inspector... Which seems a little disturbing...

[espinay2]

I'm thinking about getting a pup from the US, no real problems with this. Surely you'd want to go and spend some time with your pup early on?

I get why people might have an issue, but can't imagine not seeing my puppy in the flesh before 9 or 10 months.

ON a side track.....what about importing semen.

Many breeders import dogs based on seeing pictures and video of the pup/dog and discussing with the breeder. They may have visited the breeder in the past, or know the breeder well, but not in that period to see the pup in person. Given the cost of importing (especially some larger breeds), some breeders may not be able to afford both a trip and an import at the same time. I know a lot of the imported dogs, if not most or all, in my dogs pedigrees would not have been imported if the breeder also had to find money to go overseas at the same time - many people who import are doing it by scraping up the money somehow - they are not rich and an extra $5k or so for an overseas trip can make the exercise unreachable when you are already forking out $10k to $20K on the exercise. I have had a number of breeders in the past tell me that they have the choice of either importing or visiting, not both - as much as they would like to do both it is just not economically feasable for them.

Yes, importing semen is another option (my recent litter was from imported frozen semen) and breeders who import also do this as well, but it provides different options and different outcomes for a breeding program. For instance importing semen is obviously not going to work if you want to import a bitch from a particular line for your breeding program.

Hopefully this will all work itself out and overseas breeders who want a dog from the US won't be impacted. At the moment though it is concerning.

[RiverStar-Aura]

That's what I thought too Espinay -- that importing dogs is an expensive exercise so many couldn't afford that plus the trip OS.

And as it is so exxy, is there really a huge OS puppy mill issue? Surely if you're paying so much to import, you'd definitely want to be sure you're not supporting a puppy farm.

[Pjrt]

That's what I thought too Espinay -- that importing dogs is an expensive exercise so many couldn't afford that plus the trip OS.

And as it is so exxy, is there really a huge OS puppy mill issue? Surely if you're paying so much to import, you'd definitely want to be sure you're not supporting a puppy farm.

Yes US Puppy mills have easy cheap access to international markets. Not Australia, but by road to South America for example.

Edited September 13, 2013 by skyefool

[Trisven13]

I imported a dog from Sweden that I had never met from a breeder I had never met. I did it by recommendation from people I have had loads of discussion with BUT the cost of importing the dog was sufficient for our family's budget without also having to fly OS.

[Angeluca]

I'm not 100% on the import process

but I have seen comments about Agents at the other end??

Maybe they will extend thier service to inspect the animal at pick up or prior to???

Obviously that would be another fee but how else would they provide thier current services in the US if this does apply to most breeders cause alot would have more then 4 breeders?

not sure but just a thought,

[Steve]

Talk about restriction of trade! How will they police it anyway?

[espinay2]

Apparently in the rules you may be able to have a 'proxy' view the pup but they can't be paid and can't be a 'shipper'. In other words someone like a friend it relative who meets with the breeder and pup on your behalf.

[espinay2]

The number '4 breeding females' also applies to other animals too such as cats or rabbits etc where they sell as pets. And the numbers are added together, not separate. So if you have one entire bitch but three female rabbits that you breed the rules still apply as you have 4 breeding females!. No idea at all how they will police this! Apparently the govt has already (months ago) hired people who have been trolling the Internet to look for 'names'. You have to hope they will target the big puppy mills and not the 'soft target' responsible breeders, but who knows. And this won't stop problems such as people selling pups in Walmart carparks etc which is a big issue over there.

Edited September 14, 2013 by espinay2