Loose Leash Walking

[nicole89]

Hi,

I have a 15 week old german shepherd pup. My partner and I have had her since 8 Wks old.

We began loose leash walks at 8 wks old by walking her around our property and to the end of our driveway and back. I am using small frankfurt slices to treat her as she walks by my left side and gives me eye contact. I have also been using a clicker..This was working pretty well. For a while now i have been taking her for longer walks however she does not seem ti be enjoying them very much anymore..I live on 200acres n there is heaps of forest trails to walk on. I usually keep the walj about 30 mins long or so. The past 10 or so walks i take her by myself and my partner stays home because 2 people seem to be too distracting. Now on the way she lags behind, scratches at my legs and shows no enthusiasm to move forward . I continue treating when she heels. I take her to a creek where i let her run thru the shallow water for a bit of fun n she finds it ok but is very anxious and nervous still. When we start walking home she tries to lead the way and pulls on the leash and cant wait to get home. I

.tell my partner to totally ignore her when she gets back so there is no reward for pulling to rush home. So this has been going on for a while yet she still hates walks.

What have i done wrong? How do i get her to like venturing new places? Its a bit upsetting for me as i love walking but its not enjoyable if she hates it.

Any advice? Am i teaching loose leash walking totally wrong ? Also when she charges ahead, I've tried changing direction over abd over but she still ends up pulling when i go forward again.

thanks for any help. Ps I'm after constructive criticism, not abuse.

Thanks :)

[LisaCC]

30minutes of formal walking is way too long for a puppy of that age, especially a large breed.

I go a general rule of 5 minutes for every month of age max.

My pup loves his walks and walks quite well on a loose leash, but he still is extra enthusiastic when we are heading back home, my last dog was the same.

[BC Crazy]

Yes have to agree 30 mins is too far/long for any pup but especially a large breed IMO. I am no expert. There are lots of GSD folks on the breed sub forum page that will know how much leash exercise to give him.

I just don't move forward if there is any tension in the lead. I just become a tree & stand perfectly still until the leash becomes slack or pup turns back. Then off you go. Any tension, stop again.

You really have to be vigilant/ consistent though. Turning around works too. Patience is key here & don't be in a hurry to get away fast. It could take you an hour to get to the end of the driveway.

Reward puppy when he is walking next to you. Puppy will get distracted/excited etc. All part of being a youngster. Having said that mine are good on lead the majority of the time but my girl

is like LisaCC's pooch & tends to rush a bit when we get close to home :)

Edited September 8, 2013 by BC Crazy

[Diva]

for me, there is a great difference between loose leading walking and heeling. For a pleasant walk all I ask is don't pull and don't trip me up. I don't expect eye contact or formal heeling, I expect the dog to be exploring the environment and enjoying itself but in a way that doesn't pull me around. I might stop dead for a pulling dog, or change direction, or verbally remind then not to pull, or reinforce closeness with a game or treat.

Heeling is a formal position, lots of attention, but only short, highly rewarded bursts. Never 30 minutes worth. It sounds a bit like you are making the walks stressful for the dog by making them long heeling sessions, far too much for a pup. Even 30 minutes of ordinary walking is likely to be tiring at that age.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Diva

[LisaCC]

I was just coming back to say a similar thing as I just realised what I do with my dog (4months).

When we go for a leisurely walk Nova wears his harness, I don't expect a heel position, I don't mind sniffing etc, but I do not tolerate pulling. I always reward for perfect walking right next to me and stop dead or walk backwards when pulling.

I use a collar when we are training, I just took Nova out the back to a field and I put him on a flat collar, it's only behind my house so we did heel position walking with lots and lots of delicious rewards like cabanossi, roast chicken and cheese. Its very very short, about 1-2 minute walk, then I did lots of play, recalls and stays, some relaxing sniffing then the short heel position walk back home.

Edited September 8, 2013 by LisaCC

[BC Crazy]

Yes there is a big difference between heeling & loose leash walking Diva. I don't need my guys to do formal heeling really but loose leash walking is a must for a pleasant walk.

Nothing worse than getting dragged around is there? It is sounding to me like there is way too much pressure on this pup. I could be wrong but 30 mins is just way too long for a lesson.

I keep mine no longer than a couple of mins. Then we play. Otherwise they just switch off mentally, then it is no fun for anyone. Even now & my girl is 2 & a half, not 15 weeks.

Lisa CC... Exactly. This is what I do & it works for us.

Edited September 8, 2013 by BC Crazy

[persephone]

;) it's a bit like asking a grade 2 child to write a page long essay ....

No expert - but forest track walks should be fun ..and a relaxing time . :)

[BC Crazy]

Amen to that persohone :) I am far from an expert. Much prefer  a rekaxing walk.

Edited September 8, 2013 by BC Crazy

[nicole89]

Thankyou everyone for your replies, I'm glad i posted here because i was unsure and did not want to carry on further if i was doing something wrong. I will not be taking her for walks like that again, ill keep them very short until she gets older. Her other training sessions i kept very short 5 mins and made them heaps of fun so dont worry her whole life isn't stressful! Just didn't kno about the walking. i know running a lot is a big no no for pups with their developing joints n muscles.

Thankyou again ill also relax on the eye contact n sniffing, i read a book that said to reward for that but as yous say, walks should be relaxing and fun.

[Zug Zug]

Good on you for coming in here to ask. So much about training sits between the lines of what you read in books. Yes it's good to reward these behaviours - it's just that you don't expect them to last long and for a casual walk, eye contact isn't really needed.

Sounds like you're doing a great job with your pup overall. A slightly more relaxed approach to walking will no doubt help bring her back out of her shell.

And don't forget there are some fear periods in the early months as well. There is a pinned thread in this forum that talks about when these show up. Some avoidance behaviours develop at these times, but if managed carefully will usually subside later.

[BC Crazy]

Yes totally agree with Zug Zug

[luvsdogs]

Glad you came here for advice. As already said too much exercise too soon is no good for growing bones/joints & with the risk of hip dysplasia & the GSD you don't want to take that risk. It's best to wait until 12 months old.

I taught my BC heeling around the house off lead using a food lure to start with. When practising loose lead walking you can put in a few steps of heeling & back to LLW for a no more than 10 min walk with lots of rest stops where you can practise some sits & downs etc.

Edited September 10, 2013 by luvsdogs

[bellske]

I don't want to start another thread, so I'll put the questions here that I just thought of after reading, as I have a just turned 16 weeks GSD also.

With teaching loose lead walking and all the pulling, and she's like an ox, lets say I go to go for a walk and it takes an hour to get off the front lawn because I'm being 100% consistent on stopping, while she sits, still go on the walk?

also if at our destination which is at most 5mins walk away, I do a little bit of training which is mainly focussing on me for 5-10mins while we get closer to people(trying to stop her barking at ppl and other dogs atm), then I give her about another 20mins of her and I just roaming around the field, too much and should we just go home after the focus work?

Thanks :)

Edited September 17, 2013 by bellske

[Staffyluv]

I don't want to start another thread, so I'll put the questions here that I just thought of after reading, as I have a just turned 16 weeks GSD also.

With teaching loose lead walking and all the pulling, and she's like an ox, lets say I go to go for a walk and it takes an hour to get off the front lawn because I'm being 100% consistent on stopping, while she sits, still go on the walk?

also if at our destination which is at most 5mins walk away, I do a little bit of training which is mainly focussing on me for 5-10mins while we get closer to people(trying to stop her barking at ppl and other dogs atm), then I give her about another 20mins of her and I just roaming around the field, too much and should we just go home after the focus work?

Thanks :)

Change direction, as soon as she walks past you (in front of you) change direction - go left or right or turn right around and go in the other direction. She will soon learn that walking 'with' you is far more pleasant.

I also call mine if he gets to far out in front - I say 'come back to me' and he does. If I am turning on him, I say 'left' or 'right' or 'about left' or 'about right' (the last two are turning back in the direction you were coming from, not just like turning a corner.

I tend to have 'formal' walks and 'casual' walks. I expect he will stay by my side (formal) when we are on a busy street or passing someone. I don't expect him to stay beside me all the time - he is a dog with a nose and there are so many awesome smells and things to check out on a walk.

Also to the OP, a 30 minute walk at heel would drive my 2 year old around the bend - he would do it, if I asked it of him but it is a very long time for a dog to concentrate on one thing.

As others have said (and I did see you are cutting the walks down, great news) 30 minutes is a long time for a puppy.

When teaching puppies, I think it is a good idea to vary what you do. For example we might spend 1 minute on heeling at my side, then a minute or two playing with a tug toy, then back to heeling or staying, dropping or sitting..

Vary the training and they stay much more interested - add games into the training.

Look at that (LAT) is a great program and I think there is a link to it at the top of the training thread.

Good luck with your pups :)

[raineth]

I'm a bit late to this thread but bellske, I would say that you might need to practice more in the backyard and in the house if you are needing that many repetitions and still the message isn't really getting through.

In your house and backyard she should be relaxed enough to learn loose leash walking. When she is reliable there, just try your front yard. Then when she is reliable there just try the footpath around your house.

It's really good that you are being so consistent As I said your message just might not be getting through because it is too much for her in that environment; your training is having to compete with all the exciting sounds, sights and smells out on the walk.

[nicole89]

Hi again

Its 3 weeks later and I've reduced the leash walks to 15 mins, 7 mins one way 7 mins back and my pup is showing me she can easily handle it. My partner comes with us and she loves walks so much now and is almost overly confident when we are all together. Her training goes out the window, she veers left right and will wrap me in the leash. I shorten it, and she pulls like a bull. I am tolerating her walking ahead and sniffing but just not tolerating pulling and veering all over the place.

So when she pulls I stop in my tracks and wait for a loose leash and will then continue. Most of the time she has no idea what's going on and will just continue charging ahead. For her age she has a very strong pull and she is going to be 3 times this size in the future with a much stronger pull.

If i walk her by myself without my partner, she is very reluctant to go ahead, and if he walks her without me, its the same. She knows there's someone missing. Why is she gluey to us?

She does not seem to be learning or responding and linking pulling with stopping. I never knew loose leash walking would be this hard. I don't want to accept a crazy pulling dog. I've worked at a boarding kennel in the past and 90% of the dogs had no leash manners and would take you for a walk , it was not enjoyable for either of us!

Is there anything else i can do that will work? Am i doing something majorly wrong?

Thankyou for any comments or suggestions :-)

[LisaCC]

Are you rewarding her when she is walking nicely? I find nice smelly soft treats work best as some dog don't like to eat hard food while walking. I use bits tiny bits of cut up roasts chicken, cabanossi and some cheese.

[blakkjackal]

If this was my dog I'd be introducing the clicker. It's a great tool for loose lead walking. :)

With my own dog I stop whenever he crosses my "line" (which I imagine around the dog's shoulders, I don't want his front end to go past my legs) and wait for him to return next to me, sit and look. I never really taught that to him as sitting down is one of the behaviours he offers most often and that I reward for a lot. At first I would stop when the lead tightened (obviously don't worry about the position of the dog if it doesn't bother you and if you're not as much of a lead nazi as I am... :D) and just wait until he got sick of not doing anything and sat down. Click and treat, move on until you have to stop again -- which is probably very soon. Mind you I did not let the dog sniff around and entertain himself after we had stopped. All he got to do was stand there and do nothing or try to figure out what would get us moving again (=sit & look). For my dog it didn't take long at all to make the connection and he would very quickly start turning around into a nice sitting position behind me offering eye contact whenever I stopped. After that I'd start clicking randomly when he stayed behind my imaginary line for a few seconds without pulling.

We never really had a pulling problem as I started teaching him to walk nicely from day one. I did get a little lazy with maintaining this and allowed him to wander a little more than what I like so I'm back at having the clicker with me on our walks but that's ok, it's fun for both me and the dog. :)

[hankdog]

I did the stop, don't move until you sit and added the look a bit later but in hindsight I would add the look right in the beginning. We are walking together but you pay attention to me.

I'm not sure of the details but pups go through developmental fear periods which could explain why she's glued to you at the moment.

Edited October 4, 2013 by hankdog

[Ren]

How about the "sudden change in direction" technique whenever she passes you? It might help her understand she is following you, not choosing where she likes to go and veering off/pulling.