So Annoyed!

[Tralee]

I took my pup into the polling booth and there were no problems at all. If anyone had said something I would argue the premises are not being used as a "school" but are open to and used by the public for the purpose of compulsory election voting so if they had turned me away I would have taken down names and that would be on my reason for not voting. There were no signs outside the entry stating dogs not allowed and she certainly got plenty of attention, pats, giggles and stares. She even got offered a sausage from the BBQ.

Nailed it.

Dogs are not allowed on school grounds during school hours.

The electorial commission has responsibility for the school during voting hours, including setting up, voting, and counting.

Little lambs are not allowed at school either, it is against the rules.

We had a a drug dog at school recently. :D

[Tralee]

I took my pup into the polling booth and there were no problems at all. If anyone had said something I would argue the premises are not being used as a "school" but are open to and used by the public for the purpose of compulsory election voting so if they had turned me away I would have taken down names and that would be on my reason for not voting. There were no signs outside the entry stating dogs not allowed and she certainly got plenty of attention, pats, giggles and stares. She even got offered a sausage from the BBQ.

I guess another reason why dogs may not be allowed at schools is the issue of cleanliness - the possibility of wee and droppings. In this regard, it would make no difference if it was a 'school' or a 'voting area' on the day. Considering I see dog droppings on the sidewalk on the same street as the school while dropping my son off, it seems people cannot be relied on to pick up.

Dogs are a lot cleaner than adolescent children.

For one thing they don't leave their lunch everywhere (including classrooms) and school toilets start out clean every morning but are absolutley stinking by the end of the day.

Then there are the birds, the mice, the rats, the rabbits, the Koalas and the interminable cockroaches.

I even worked in a school where people used to urinate in the stairwells on the weekends.

The dog rule is not a Health Regulation, do you think?

Kind regards. :)

Edited September 7, 2013 by Tralee

[Salukifan]

From the Companion Animals Act 1998 (NSW)

14 Dogs prohibited in some public places

(1) Dogs are prohibited in the following places

(whether or not they are leashed or otherwise controlled):

(a)

Children's play areas

(meaning any public place, or part of a public place, that is within 10 metres of any playing apparatus provided in that public place or part for the use of children).

(b)

Food preparation/consumption areas

(meaning any public place, or part of a public place, that is within 10 metres of any apparatus provided in that public place or part for the preparation of food for human consumption or for the consumption of food by humans).

©

Recreation areas where dogs are prohibited

(meaning any public place, or part of a public place, provided or set apart by a local authority for public recreation or the playing of organised games and in which the local authority has ordered that dogs are prohibited and in which, or near the boundaries of which, there are conspicuously exhibited by the local authority at reasonable intervals notices to the effect that dogs are prohibited in or on that public place or part).

(d)

Public bathing areas where dogs are prohibited

(meaning any public place or any part of a public place that is used for or in conjunction with public bathing or public recreation (including a beach), in which the local authority has ordered that dogs are prohibited and in which, or near the boundaries of which, there are conspicuously exhibited by the local authority at reasonable intervals notices to the effect that dogs are prohibited in or on that public place).

(e)

School grounds

(meaning any property occupied or used for a purpose connected with the conduct of a government school or non- government school under the

Education Act 1990

, other than any property used for a residence or the curtilage of a residence).

(f)

Child care centres

(meaning any property occupied or used for a purpose connected with the conduct of an approved education and care service within the meaning of the

Children (Education and Care Services) National Law (NSW)

or the

Children (Education and Care Services) Supplementary Provisions Act 2011

, other than any property used for a residence or the curtilage of a residence).

(g)

Shopping areas where dogs are prohibited

(meaning a shopping arcade or shopping complex, including any part of it that is used by the public for parking or access to shops, in which or part of which the local authority has ordered that dogs are prohibited and in which, or near the boundaries of which, there are conspicuously exhibited by the local authority at reasonable intervals notices to the effect that dogs are prohibited there). This paragraph does not apply to any shop or part of a shop.

(h)

Wildlife protection areas

(meaning any public place or any part of a public place set apart by the local authority for the protection of wildlife and in which the local authority has ordered that dogs are prohibited for the purposes of the protection of wildlife and in which, or near the boundaries of which, there are conspicuously exhibited by the local authority at reasonable intervals notices to the effect that dogs are prohibited in or on that public place).

I don't see any mention of "during school hours" in the school prohibition. If you're going to get into a stoush about your right to have your dog with you, it pays to check that the law is on your side. I appreciate that this law is a very frequently ignored one but it does exist.

What happens on school grounds out of hours doesn't miraculously disappear on school mornings. In the ACT dogs are allowed on high school grounds out of hours but the the primary school ban is 24/7. Given the amount of vandalism schools experience you'd think a bit of dog poo might be considered a decent price to pay for a bit of out of hours presence.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[ari.g]

There's a photo on Malcolm Turnbull's Facebook page (he's a dog tragic) of the 'official' Puppy Parking Zone outside the Bondi Beach Public School markets. Click to enlarge:

Bit like that at the school where we voted today. Quite a few people had dogs, but they all either left the dog outside with a 'minder', or they tied the dog up in a place away from the flow of the people.

That's cute I used to walk my dogs in the local primary school grounds where I used to live (suburb on the Sunshine Coast). There was a sign saying just to pick up your dog poo.

[Tralee]

From the Companion Animals Act 1998 (NSW)

14 Dogs prohibited in some public places

(1) Dogs are prohibited in the following places

(whether or not they are leashed or otherwise controlled):

(a)

Children's play areas

(meaning any public place, or part of a public place, that is within 10 metres of any playing apparatus provided in that public place or part for the use of children).

(b)

Food preparation/consumption areas

(meaning any public place, or part of a public place, that is within 10 metres of any apparatus provided in that public place or part for the preparation of food for human consumption or for the consumption of food by humans).

©

Recreation areas where dogs are prohibited

(meaning any public place, or part of a public place, provided or set apart by a local authority for public recreation or the playing of organised games and in which the local authority has ordered that dogs are prohibited and in which, or near the boundaries of which, there are conspicuously exhibited by the local authority at reasonable intervals notices to the effect that dogs are prohibited in or on that public place or part).

(d)

Public bathing areas where dogs are prohibited

(meaning any public place or any part of a public place that is used for or in conjunction with public bathing or public recreation (including a beach), in which the local authority has ordered that dogs are prohibited and in which, or near the boundaries of which, there are conspicuously exhibited by the local authority at reasonable intervals notices to the effect that dogs are prohibited in or on that public place).

(e)

School grounds

(meaning any property occupied or used for a purpose connected with the conduct of a government school or non- government school under the

Education Act 1990

, other than any property used for a residence or the curtilage of a residence).

(f)

Child care centres

(meaning any property occupied or used for a purpose connected with the conduct of an approved education and care service within the meaning of the

Children (Education and Care Services) National Law (NSW)

or the

Children (Education and Care Services) Supplementary Provisions Act 2011

, other than any property used for a residence or the curtilage of a residence).

(g)

Shopping areas where dogs are prohibited

(meaning a shopping arcade or shopping complex, including any part of it that is used by the public for parking or access to shops, in which or part of which the local authority has ordered that dogs are prohibited and in which, or near the boundaries of which, there are conspicuously exhibited by the local authority at reasonable intervals notices to the effect that dogs are prohibited there). This paragraph does not apply to any shop or part of a shop.

(h)

Wildlife protection areas

(meaning any public place or any part of a public place set apart by the local authority for the protection of wildlife and in which the local authority has ordered that dogs are prohibited for the purposes of the protection of wildlife and in which, or near the boundaries of which, there are conspicuously exhibited by the local authority at reasonable intervals notices to the effect that dogs are prohibited in or on that public place).

I don't see any mention of "during school hours" in the school prohibition. If you're going to get into a stoush about your right to have your dog with you, it pays to check that the law is on your side. I appreciate that this law is a very frequently ignored one but it does exist.

What happens on school grounds out of hours doesn't miraculously disappear on school mornings. In the ACT dogs are allowed on high school grounds out of hours but the the primary school ban is 24/7. Given the amount of vandalism schools experience you'd think a bit of dog poo might be considered a decent price to pay for a bit of out of hours presence.

Mixeduppup is not in the ACT.

Is there an issue?

[WreckitWhippet]

I had no idea about this rule about no dogs on school grounds and apparently neither did a lot of other people who were free to take their dogs where ever they liked.

Tiem to read up on the Companion Animals Act and abide by the current legislation.

[Salukifan]

Mixeduppup is not in the ACT.

Is there an issue?

I know. That's why the Act quoted is the NSW one. :) I just added that high schools are treated differently here.

No issue here.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[Tralee]

This is misquoted.

(b) Food preparation/consumption areas (meaning any public place, or part of a public place, that is within 10 metres of any apparatus provided in that public place or part for the preparation of food for human consumption or for the consumption of food by humans).

Dogs are allowed in outdoor eating areas if there is a public thouroughfare.

[Lhok]

This is misquoted.

(b) Food preparation/consumption areas (meaning any public place, or part of a public place, that is within 10 metres of any apparatus provided in that public place or part for the preparation of food for human consumption or for the consumption of food by humans).

Dogs are allowed in outdoor eating areas if there is a public thouroughfare.

I always thought that was up to the discretion of the premises owner.

--Lhok

[Salukifan]

This is misquoted.

(b) Food preparation/consumption areas (meaning any public place, or part of a public place, that is within 10 metres of any apparatus provided in that public place or part for the preparation of food for human consumption or for the consumption of food by humans).

Dogs are allowed in outdoor eating areas if there is a public thouroughfare.

I've quoted directly from the Act from the NSW legislation website. They are talking about public picnic/BBQ areas I think, not cafes. Cafes are not public places as defined by the Act. Members of the public have no "entitlement" to use them.

public place means:

(a) any pathway, road, bridge, jetty, wharf, road-ferry,

reserve, park, beach or garden,

and

(b) any other place,

that the public are entitled to use.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[Tralee]

This is misquoted.

(e) School grounds (meaning any property occupied or used for a purpose connected with the conduct of a government school or non- government school under the Education Act 1990, other than any property used for a residence or the curtilage of a residence).

The school was not being used for the purposes prescribed.

Note the emphasis on 'prescribed'.

I could hire the school out to whoever I deem could assist with fundraising for the school, including Dog Training Clubs because the school is only used for its prescribed purposes during school hours.

[mixeduppup]

This particular school is also used for a dog training club.

[Tralee]

It might help to consider why dogs are not allowed on school grounds during school hours.

There you have the proscription of the law, hence the small dogs being allowed to go to the voting booths 'out of school hours'.

You'd think the Electorical Commission and its officers would know the law.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Tralee

[Guest hankodie]

Having travelled & grown up overseas I've observed that Australia isn't as dog friendly as a lot of other places in the world. It's a shame too because some of the best behaved dogs I've seen have been in places where dogs were allowed everywhere with their owners. In San Francisco you can take your dog to a lot of places with you and it's very rarely ever a problem - most of the time owners and dogs just keep to themselves. Obviously though if we had the same sort of laws implemented here tomorrow you'd see a lot more incidences happen with irresponsible owners and their dogs, but it makes you wonder if there's a correlation between dog friendly laws + well behaved dogs.

[Tralee]

This is misquoted.

(b) Food preparation/consumption areas (meaning any public place, or part of a public place, that is within 10 metres of any apparatus provided in that public place or part for the preparation of food for human consumption or for the consumption of food by humans).

Dogs are allowed in outdoor eating areas if there is a public thouroughfare.

I've quoted directly from the Act from the NSW legislation website. They are talking about public picnic/BBQ areas I think, not cafes. Cafes are not public places as defined by the Act. Members of the public have no "entitlement" to use them.

public place means:

(a) any pathway, road, bridge, jetty, wharf, road-ferry,

reserve, park, beach or garden,

and

(b) any other place,

that the public are entitled to use.

Huh.

Cafes are on footpaths.

The public has a legal right to use a retail business - 'entitlement'

A retail business is required by law to open to the public for a certain number of prescribed hours.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Tralee

[Danois]

Personally I would not leave my dog tied up outside on a fence with lots of people around and out of my line of sight.

I don't get the need to take the dog when you go and do things like voting - I do dog things with my dog and leave him at home when I do people things.

[mixeduppup]

I don't split the two, everything I do is dog things... :laugh:

Edited September 7, 2013 by mixeduppup

[Tralee]

Personally I would not leave my dog tied up outside on a fence with lots of people around and out of my line of sight.

I don't get the need to take the dog when you go and do things like voting - I do dog things with my dog and leave him at home when I do people things.

Its an offence in NSW to tie a dog up and leave it unattended.

(and I'm not going over the companion animal act 'ad infinitum' again)

[Salukifan]

This is misquoted.

(e) School grounds (meaning any property occupied or used for a purpose connected with the conduct of a government school or non- government school under the Education Act 1990, other than any property used for a residence or the curtilage of a residence).

The school was not being used for the purposes prescribed.

Note the emphasis on 'prescribed'.

I could hire the school out to whoever I deem could assist with fundraising for the school, including Dog Training Clubs because the school is only used for its prescribed purposes during school hours.

Where is the exception in the Act for "unless the school is not being used for the purposes prescribed"?? A school does not stop being "any property occupied or used" simply because its out of hours or holidays.

If you were the school principal, indeed you could hire the school out to a dog training club. However, as a member of the public, unless you have permission to have your dog on the grounds, its off limits 24/7. If you think that's not correct, you should take it up with the Law Society of NSW. Their interpretation agrees with mine.

Next you'll be suggesting that unless a child is in a playground, it is not being used for the "purposes prescribed" and therefore you can have your dog there. Read the DLG brochure - there are no exceptions to the prohibition listed:

Don't take my word for it - there's plenty of information about the responsibilities of dog owners in NSW. From the DLG website:

Areas from which dogs are prohibited (excludes Police and corrective service dogs and genuine assistance dogs)

Dogs are banned from:

• within 10 metres of a children's play area
• within 10 metres of food preparation or consumption areas, except cafes or restaurants whose owners permit dogs (not restricted dogs or declared dangerous dogs) in their outdoor dining areas (see Dogs in outdoor dining areas)
• recreation areas where dogs are prohibited
• public bathing areas where dogs are prohibited
• school grounds
• child care centres
• shopping centres where dogs are prohibited
• wildlife protection areas.

The fact that few people seem to know or obey the law doesn't change the fact that the ban exists.

[Tralee]

Personally I would not leave my dog tied up outside on a fence with lots of people around and out of my line of sight.

I don't get the need to take the dog when you go and do things like voting - I do dog things with my dog and leave him at home when I do people things.

Oh I get the need.

What I don't get is why they can't accompany me everywhere.