Dog Shot At Wendouree Home

[BlackJaq]

Maybe I need a Private Property, Keep Out sign too for the terminally stupid people that think it's OK to drive up my neighbours driveway and jump the side fence instead of ringing or texting me.

We have one of these. We live on a property and right now we do not leave anyone outside the house or dog pen when we go out but we will be getting another dog around the end of the year who will have access around the house and sheds, so we will add a sign to alert to the presence of a dog. Our front gate is also locked.

Anybody who jumps the fence here is pretty much on their own. We also have a "If you can read this, you are within range" sign near the top of the driveway, just at the corner where you can see the house hehe Hope that is clear enough for everybody

Edited September 4, 2013 by BlackJaq

[Jed]

Another dodgy out of control action by the police. They are rapidly losing friends.

And I don't think dogs ought to be made to be confined in the rear yard. You own the entire yard, the dog should have access to it.

My dogs have access to the front because I don't want access to be easy for undesirables - coz you know what - if you call the police because you have intruders, no one comes!! Phswar for the police. so the dog is doing the police job.

And the police need to either screen some of those entering, or train them better.

They have no right to shoot your dog.

If they shot my dog, I would have them in court in an instant.

I hate these stories. I hate the numpties with guns who can't control themselves.

The only "friends" the police tend to have are those who've relied on them at some stage for safety reasons or those who appreciate the difficulties of the job they do. Otherwise, no one cares.

On occasion, a "numpty with a gun" has a legitmate reason to visit a residence and personally, I don't consider being rushed by a dog big enough to cause serious harm is something they should quietly dance around if they they step foot on a property.

Police officers have the right to defend themselves from attack. A serious injury from a dog is NOT part and parcel of what a police officer should expect to suffer when they enter a property. Ideally if they'd had a tazer or OC spray, they might have used non-lethal means.. and that's an if. There's a news story about how ineffective those were when police were called to rescue a couple from a dog attack in NSW last year.

If you wish to allow your dogs free rein of your property, lock your gates and post a sign alerting to the presence of the dog/s.. That way there are no surprises. And if entry is required quickly and in an emergency, expect your dog to pay with its life if it offers resistance - emergency services won't be cooling their heels waiting for the ranger.

This is stuff every dog owner needs to think through. As I said in my first post, some thought by each and every dog owner as to the consequences of how they keep their pets is the only good that can come of this.

If you don't want "undesirables" like kids selling raffle tickets, little old ladies collecting for charity or police performing their lawful duties on your property, BAR ACCESS AND POST A WARNING. That way it won't be your dog that cops a bullet.

Of course the irony of the fortress approach to home security is that statistically, the biggest threat to your safety will come from those you know, not "strangers".

I do wonder what people recommend is the appropriate course of action for a person who finds a huge dog rushing them and behaving aggressively???? "Be like a tree"???

Doesn't give them the right to shoot the dog. And was the dog behaving aggressively? Or was the big blouse police lady ffffrightened of the big doggy?

Yes, I agree with you, the public needs to keep their dogs safe from numpty policemen. Close and lock your gates, refuse access to all.

But - according to all reports - the dog was no aggressive, nor was he behaving aggressively.

As far as an aggressive dog is concerned - pepper spray? shouting?

Pretending you are Wyatt Earp out on the range doesn't do it for me. I wouldn't come onto your property and give your beamer a couple of whacks with an axe because it was in my way, and it might roll onto my foot. Nor should you damage my property because you think it might hurt you

People need to respect the property of others -- and that includes dogs - not just knock them off because they can.

Don't think a locked gate, or being in the backyard will save your dog.

There are many cases of police chasing suspects, shooting the family dog. Last one, as far as I know, was in Deception bay, Qld. Suspect jumped the fence to the backyard, policeman followed, cattle dog barked, policeman shot him. Didn't attack, just barked.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Jed

[Pheebs]

No doubt there are a lot of decent people living in Wendouree but it does have more than its fair share of criminals and bogans. I really wonder that if it was a more affluent suburb and a large dog had rushed barking out the front door whether the same thing would have happened? I suppose we will never know.

My sincerest apologies to any of the DOL residents who are based in Wendouree but I echo the sentiments above.

Willow grove is by far the dodgiest street & area I have ever visited throughout Australia. As a former Ballarat resident, I often used to tune in to the police radio via an iPhone app and more often than not I would hear at least one callout per evening to this particular street. There are, however many great people who live in the area (pensioners, the elderly & disabled) and those who are simply down on their luck but unfortunately crime stats would have you believe otherwise.

This most certainly does not excuse what happened to this poor Dog, but it does perhaps shed some perspective as others have mentioned in explaining why the police may have had more than enough reason to be fearful of visiting the area even prior to throwing a large bullbreed into the mix.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/nothing-comes-easy-in-wendouree-west-20110827-1jftj.html

[Pailin]

Another dodgy out of control action by the police. They are rapidly losing friends.

And I don't think dogs ought to be made to be confined in the rear yard. You own the entire yard, the dog should have access to it.

My dogs have access to the front because I don't want access to be easy for undesirables - coz you know what - if you call the police because you have intruders, no one comes!! Phswar for the police. so the dog is doing the police job.

And the police need to either screen some of those entering, or train them better.

They have no right to shoot your dog.

If they shot my dog, I would have them in court in an instant.

I hate these stories. I hate the numpties with guns who can't control themselves.

The only "friends" the police tend to have are those who've relied on them at some stage for safety reasons or those who appreciate the difficulties of the job they do. Otherwise, no one cares.

On occasion, a "numpty with a gun" has a legitmate reason to visit a residence and personally, I don't consider being rushed by a dog big enough to cause serious harm is something they should quietly dance around if they they step foot on a property.

Police officers have the right to defend themselves from attack. A serious injury from a dog is NOT part and parcel of what a police officer should expect to suffer when they enter a property. Ideally if they'd had a tazer or OC spray, they might have used non-lethal means.. and that's an if. There's a news story about how ineffective those were when police were called to rescue a couple from a dog attack in NSW last year.

If you wish to allow your dogs free rein of your property, lock your gates and post a sign alerting to the presence of the dog/s.. That way there are no surprises. And if entry is required quickly and in an emergency, expect your dog to pay with its life if it offers resistance - emergency services won't be cooling their heels waiting for the ranger.

This is stuff every dog owner needs to think through. As I said in my first post, some thought by each and every dog owner as to the consequences of how they keep their pets is the only good that can come of this.

If you don't want "undesirables" like kids selling raffle tickets, little old ladies collecting for charity or police performing their lawful duties on your property, BAR ACCESS AND POST A WARNING. That way it won't be your dog that cops a bullet.

Of course the irony of the fortress approach to home security is that statistically, the biggest threat to your safety will come from those you know, not "strangers".

I do wonder what people recommend is the appropriate course of action for a person who finds a huge dog rushing them and behaving aggressively???? "Be like a tree"???

Doesn't give them the right to shoot the dog. And was the dog behaving aggressively? Or was the big blouse police lady ffffrightened of the big doggy?

Yes, I agree with you, the public needs to keep their dogs safe from numpty policemen. Close and lock your gates, refuse access to all.

But - according to all reports - the dog was no aggressive, nor was he behaving aggressively.

As far as an aggressive dog is concerned - pepper spray? shouting?

Pretending you are Wyatt Earp out on the range doesn't do it for me. I wouldn't come onto your property and give your beamer a couple of whacks with an axe because it was in my way, and it might roll onto my foot. Nor should you damage my property because you think it might hurt you

People need to respect the property of others -- and that includes dogs - not just knock them off because they can.

Don't think a locked gate, or being in the backyard will save your dog.

There are many cases of police chasing suspects, shooting the family dog. Last one, as far as I know, was in Deception bay, Qld. Suspect jumped the fence to the backyard, policeman followed, cattle dog barked, policeman shot him. Didn't attack, just barked.

Do you have any links or info on the Deception Bay incident? A family member is dog squad near there and I've not heard of that.

Honestly it is a grey area for sure. Not only do they pursue suspects through yards but dog squad will also throw the dog over the fence too when in pursuit and yes, even in that circumstance they do have the right to shoot a dog on the property if it becomes a danger to them or the police dog. It turns your stomach to think of it happening to you but at the same time it is not something that is done just because they can and what they have to deal with everyday is appalling.

My family member has been bitten in the course of a dog fight that happened when someone's GSD was unsecured in the front yard and attacked the police dog as they were tracking past the property. He didn't shoot the dog.

Honestly I fence sit on these kinds of things, on the one hand I know how difficult and challenging being a police officer is and on the other hand I cannot help but think if the dog was shot in the back of the neck and not menacing or an immediate and sure danger then it was definitely a poor judgement call on the part of the officer. That being said, as sad as this situation is, the police are only human and have to make split second decisions for their own safety, it is not an easy job.

[Jed]

the incident at D Bay was 4 - 5 years ago, I think. Maybe check the newspapers archives. There was a fair bit of publicity, no I don't have anything on it. Not something I would keep, but I felt so sorry for the owners of the dog.

If the police shoot a dog attacking them - that's ok with me. what annoys me is them shooting dogs which were declared harmless by neighbours.

No respect.

[Salukifan]

the incident at D Bay was 4 - 5 years ago, I think. Maybe check the newspapers archives. There was a fair bit of publicity, no I don't have anything on it. Not something I would keep, but I felt so sorry for the owners of the dog.

If the police shoot a dog attacking them - that's ok with me. what annoys me is them shooting dogs which were declared harmless by neighbours.

No respect.

And all the more reason for more police to wear shoulder mounted cameras when on duty. Puts what happens in such incidents beyond doubt.

[cannibalgoldfish]

Doesn't give them the right to shoot the dog. And was the dog behaving aggressively? Or was the big blouse police lady ffffrightened of the big doggy?

Were you there?

If not then give a thought for the police officer (was it a lady?)who may not be dog savvy and was there for a reason that may actually be not to sell raffle tickets. What if, hypothetically(as all responses have to be)said police person had knowledge of the people they went to visit?

Off topic but really, a bullmastiff named Bruiser? *insert bogan*

Edited September 4, 2013 by cannibalgoldfish

[OSoSwift]

So the Cavalier called Bruiser I know is also owned by a Bogan? What about our oversized Stafford called Brutus am I a bogan as well?????

I agree with the shoulder mounted cameras. That way we would know if it was an over reaction or not. I feel very sorry for the family I cannot begin to understand how it would feel if that happened.

[sandgrubber]

Also I question why a few police were coming to this house with firearms at the ready...

Perhaps you don't realise how fast cops are taught to draw and fire? Standard drill is draw and fire three shots in two seconds... Things can go pear shaped very, very quickly for police. They are trained accordingly.

Sad situation. RIP for the dog and sympathy for the owner.

Such situations require good snap judgement. Unfortunately, not everyone, police or otherwise, has this 24/7 (I certainly don't). It may be necessary to train cops to react fast with deadly force, but sometimes the consequences mean that innocent people, or dogs, get shot.

Such is life.

I hope the officer, at least, has the grace to apologize...and has thought about what he has done sufficiently that he won't end out shooting some kid wearing a hoody who presents as threatening or a mentally unstable person whose actions register as dangerous.

[dogbesotted]

Sorry but for most people a bullmastiff running towards them barking and growling is enough of a threat, no matter how harmless the dog....

Have to agree. A barking, rushing bullmastiff is enough to scare anyone. I'm sure the police weren't there to hand out lollies.

harsh judgements there.. being shot thru the back of the neck.. i can only assume the bullmastif was threatening to fart at them whilst barking!

seriously tho even if the police wree not there to hand out lollies it hardly warrents shooting the family dog thru the back of the neck

H

[dogbesotted]

I am also goint to add here that i have had the police come to my place seeking someone on the run.. they were at the wrong address ( ie 159 instead of 139) and i have dogs who could have been construed as "agressive" towards a group of tense,threatening strangers.. so i suppose those of you who say that the police do not come to give out lollies or sell raffle tickets would castigate me if i was distressed about my dogs being shot.. saying i should have expected it...i beg to differ and i hope i never become so judgemental.

shame on you shame

eta it is bloody hard for a dog to be shot in the back of the neck as it rushes someone..

H

[Salukifan]

1378329441[/url]' post='6291411']

I am also goint to add here that i have had the police come to my place seeking someone on the run.. they were at the wrong address ( ie 159 instead of 139) and i have dogs who could have been construed as "agressive" towards a group of tense,threatening strangers.. so i suppose those of you who say that the police do not come to give out lollies or sell raffle tickets would castigate me if i was distressed about my dogs being shot.. saying i should have expected it...i beg to differ and i hope i never become so judgemental.

shame on you shame

eta it is bloody hard for a dog to be shot in the back of the neck as it rushes someone..

H

Excuse me?

I have not read ONE WORD in this thread that suggests that the owner of the dog should be condemned for her distress. Not one. No one has taken the piss out of her, or suggested that she should simply suck it up.

Please resist the urge to make this all about you. Any of us would be gutted if our dog got shot. Some of us would blame ourselves for allowing it to happen, rather than sheeting the whole thing home to being someone else's fault. That's the difference I suppose.

To me responsible dog owners are those who accept responsibility for what happens to their dogs. They don't necessarily have to be happy about it..

Got to love all the ballistics experts this thread has revealed. Plenty of judging going on in that regard.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[persephone]

I also think shoulder cams are a brilliant idea .... so much can happen in a short time ..and people remember things differently .

[Salukifan]

I also think shoulder cams are a brilliant idea .... so much can happen in a short time ..and people remember things differently .

People also lie their heads off - until they realise the incident was recorded.

[persephone]

I also think shoulder cams are a brilliant idea .... so much can happen in a short time ..and people remember things differently .

People also lie their heads off - until they realise the incident was recorded.

I was being kind :p yes. they do.

[Holmesy]

Touches a real nerve with me since I have a beautiful bullmastiff girl with an extremely gentle temperament. She is not a fan of strange people, but she does not bark or lunge.. she just keeps her distance while keeping an eye on them. Thankfully I allow full access to my front yard so the situation from this article wouldn't happen to me. If something like this happened in my back yard though, i'd probably end up getting shot by police for attacking them. I know the police are just doing their job, and the full details of this incident are not available at the moment, but if ANYONE.. police or not try to or actually hurt either of my dogs while I am present, I am going to do my best to hurt them. I am not trying to be a tough guy.. my dogs are my family.

Sad situation for both parties. I am sure the police officer felt bad about killing the dog after he/she saw how much it upset the owner to lose her best friend. The shoulder cam for police is a great idea.. I know that it's been trialed in one of the states of USA with a huge amount of success. The number of police related complaints has almost disappeared from that precinct since the trial began. That's not just because police have to do the right thing, but also because it's on film, people can't level false accusations against the police for brutality etc.

Police Camera Trial

[Salukifan]

Touches a real nerve with me since I have a beautiful bullmastiff girl with an extremely gentle temperament. She is not a fan of strange people, but she does not bark or lunge.. she just keeps her distance while keeping an eye on them. Thankfully I allow full access to my front yard so the situation from this article wouldn't happen to me. If something like this happened in my back yard though, i'd probably end up getting shot by police for attacking them. I know the police are just doing their job, and the full details of this incident are not available at the moment, but if ANYONE.. police or not try to or actually hurt either of my dogs while I am present, I am going to do my best to hurt them. I am not trying to be a tough guy.. my dogs are my family.

Sad situation for both parties. I am sure the police officer felt bad about killing the dog after he/she saw how much it upset the owner to lose her best friend. The shoulder cam for police is a great idea.. I know that it's been trialed in one of the states of USA with a huge amount of success. The number of police related complaints has almost disappeared from that precinct since the trial began. That's not just because police have to do the right thing, but also because it's on film, people can't level false accusations against the police for brutality etc.

Police Camera Trial

They are already in use in parts of Australia. :cool:

[Maddy]

The story is sad but raises lots of questions.

The back of the dog's neck is visible in the photo and there is no obvious wound there...

entry wounds can be very small and easily covered by a skin fold/hair ruff....they are only the size of the projectile , usually .

The exit wound would be a bit larger, and probably messier .

If there was one. With a police round, its not likely.

In Tasmania (and I'd assume other states) police use a 9mm handgun. A 9mm has a lot of stopping power and will generally go cleanly through, as opposed to the .38 or the .22, both of which lose a lot of force, tending to lead to a lot more internal damage as the bullet will bounce off bones after the initial hit (tearing things up on the inside) and not always leaving an exit wound. It does depend a bit on distance, of course. To hit the dog cleanly when it was running and the officer was supposedly scared, I'd have to assume the range was fairly short, so you'd expect a exit wound somewhere. That wound could be very small though, a 9mm round is smaller in diameter than a 5 cent piece.

Regardless of calibre though, finding out the angle of entry would be very easy to do: take the carcase to a vet, have it opened up, question answered.

[Salukifan]

In Tasmania (and I'd assume other states) police use a 9mm handgun. A 9mm has a lot of stopping power and will generally go cleanly through, as opposed to the .38 or the .22, both of which lose a lot of force, tending to lead to a lot more internal damage as the bullet will bounce off bones after the initial hit (tearing things up on the inside) and not always leaving an exit wound. It does depend a bit on distance, of course. To hit the dog cleanly when it was running and the officer was supposedly scared, I'd have to assume the range was fairly short, so you'd expect a exit wound somewhere. That wound could be very small though, a 9mm round is smaller in diameter than a 5 cent piece.

Regardless of calibre though, finding out the angle of entry would be very easy to do: take the carcase to a vet, have it opened up, question answered.

Police issue bullets don't go cleanly through anything. Police generally use hollow points which are designed to expand on impact.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[Alyosha]

Doesn't give them the right to shoot the dog. And was the dog behaving aggressively? Or was the big blouse police lady ffffrightened of the big doggy?

Yes, I agree with you, the public needs to keep their dogs safe from numpty policemen. Close and lock your gates, refuse access to all.

But - according to all reports - the dog was no aggressive, nor was he behaving aggressively.

...

There are many cases of police chasing suspects, shooting the family dog. Last one, as far as I know, was in Deception bay, Qld. Suspect jumped the fence to the backyard, policeman followed, cattle dog barked, policeman shot him. Didn't attack, just barked.

Hells bells Jed. Certainly a clueless response, bordering on offensive... (bolding in quote is mine)

Go back and re-read the article. The officer that shot the dog was a male. The dog was reported to have "approached the members aggressively".

And the last incident you heard of was allegedly 4 or 5 years ago. The most recent of "many". This must be some new definition of the word "many" that I was previously unaware of...

Hollowpoint police rounds do not go right through. Like I said before they are designed for impact. They go in with a big belt and an impact designed to (hopefully) stop a threat in it's tracks. Shooting a hole through something rarely stops it - police ballistics people do actually know that.