Raw Diet

[Yonjuro]

Don't forget that the meat stuffs should be frozen for at least a couple of days before feeding. You should be okay with butcher bought stuff for a once off, but best to freeze all before hand. Fish generally needs around two weeks.

Would people really say it's imperative to freeze food? I tend to freeze when buying in bulk, but if I see a bag of fabulous looking beef hearts or the like marked down at Coles, that will likely be dinner for Gus. Is there any benefit other than the parasite killing that I'm missing?

There is the danger of parasites, bacteria and worms - stuff that is generally killed when we cook to eat for ourselves. I would say 9 times out of 10 it will be fine, however, the more you opt for not freezing the greater the chance of one of these nasties coming your way eventually.

I should add that a dogs constitution is far stronger than ours and they are able to cope better with something that is not 100%, I suppose an argument could be made that this combined with regular worming should combat most. But it's not really a risk I would want to take with any regularity.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Yonjuro

[Steph M]

I've never had any great trouble, does this go for bones and the like too? I have to say it does sound a bit OTT to me. I hear you shouldn't freeze food as it kills off vital nutrients too. I think we might just carry on as we are ;)

[Jed]

Amazing.

back to the original question. I would buy some cheap steak (cheapest I could find) cut it into small pieces, and use that as treats to satisfy Steve's request. If this is a big dog, I presume that you would only be feeding a small % of his food as treats --- not withstanding what Steve wants.

I wouldn't feed offal - too messy. Just chunks of meat.

If you want to feed raw, please buy a copy of Dr. Ian Billinghurst's "Give a Dog A Bone" and follow the directions in there. There are a lot of ideas out there, and a lot of them bear no relation to a barf diet, and I wonder if some of them are injurious to dogs.

[Sandra777]

I will definitely look into the worming thing then Sandra - what do you do in terms of flea / worm treatment?

My dogs aren't "treated" for fleas as they don't have fleas. If we spot a flea we spray the environment (bedding is washed routinely but favourite sleeping spots, couches, car, carpet), bath the dogs and that's it. We don't have cats or strays in the yard though so this may well make a difference.

My dogs are wormed when a fecal count says this is a good idea - twice in the past 3 years. Pups up to 6 months old are wormed routinely though as they do tend to eat things they probably shouldn't. Our dogs NEVER run loose in bushland though and have no access to anything more exciting than the odd bit of bat or galah poo :laugh:

Heartworm is done monthly (6 weekly in winter) with bulk-buy ivermectin based product.

For ticks we spray permoxin, which does kill fleas too admittedly, but only when the dogs are going to be running loose off the property (lure racing primarily) or when they are going to a known problem place.

[kelpiecuddles]

It's not ideal as I believe blood, etc is important too but just for your training treats you could cut steak in to little cubes and then put it in a colander and give it a good rinse and then dry it on some paper towel. That way it would at least not be quite as messy.

[melzawelza]

I'm looking in to raw feeding at the moment.

Question for the raw feeders - if you're feeding organ meat do you worm every 6 weeks to cover hydatid tapeworms?

Freezing for 10 days prior to feeding solves this problem.

Human-grade food is NOT exempt from hydatids so better safe that sorry!

ETA: Lasareina all-in-ones don't cover hydatids and honestly, I'd be having a close look at them, they're serious overkill for the vast majority of dogs and really not required.

Thanks for that Sandra, good to know as one of the things that has put me off feeding offal (and therefore going raw) is not wanting to worm her 6 weekly (and also not wanting to put us at risk of Hydadid!)

[Lasareina]

Tried to give the dogs a fresh mackerel today ... Not having a bar of it. So I cooked it (and picked out the bones :-/ )... Still not keen.

Now trying to work out what to do with the fish. Bin collection on Thursday and freezer choc a bloc with mince and chicken wings we just bought in bulk... Need a chest freezer lol

Think we will stick to canned fish from now on... Can't get enough of that although I have only tried tuna and salmon so far.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Lasareina

[huski]

I would be asking your trainer to clarify and explain why they want you to feed raw. I assume you have paid them for their opinion, they need to expand on the what and why.

Just to clarify, Steve normally does provide notes on training diets or what ever he recommends but Paddles had a 30 minute phone consult to get some ideas, not an actual consult.

I understand this is the second phone consult she has had and she got great results after the first one. :)

[paddles]

I have to say, I was and am totally Happy with the service I have had with k9 pro, and steve courtney dog training, Steve suggested feeding raw, I said I would think about it, I did some research. my original question was, and is, What comprises a raw diet" not weather its good, not weather its bad.. Just what comprises it. quantaties that should be fed. I fail to see what the fact that a trainer (in this case steve courtney) has suggested it. I have found that following Steve's advice has helped me heaps. I have gotten a lot of help from 2 phone consults.

considerations such as worms/disease etc, will be/have been addressed to my vet, and he has given advice/suggestions as well.

I'd also like to say, I have been using chunks of raw meat and liver (urk) as training treats, yes it is manky, BUT OMG! have I seen a difference in Milo's attitude to training.

Edited September 14, 2013 by paddles

[Yonjuro]

Excellent to hear that things are going well. I'll bet Milo is looking great with the new diet and training?

[paddles]

I'm still feeling my way with the diet, I've noticed a huge difference in his attitude to training, much happier/eager to please. we are at very basic stages atm, and I still have a long way to go, (some things were suggested that I just haven't had time/facilities to impliment, but plan to) at this stage, i am still feeding kibble a little, due to various things, but a lot more meat than what he was getting. I've always fed a little meat, and I probably could drop the kibble, I tend to be a sucker thinking he hasn't had enough food...

[luvsdogs]

I think it was in Give Your Dog a Bone that I read, many years ago, that chicken doesn't have hydatids. So safe to feed the liver if your dogs will eat it. I've tried many different ways & my food fanatic dogs won't have a bar of it. They will eat the hearts though I've heard they are a muscle meat & not offal.

Dr Tom Lonsdale's Raw Meaty Bones diet is better for dogs. It doesn't include any plant matter as dogs don't need or benefit from it. His other book Works Wonders gives you more of what to feed your dogs.

http://www.rawmeatybones.com/book-ww.php

[Staranais]

I don't know if anyone has given you the link to K9Pro's facebook page, as they've just done a blog update on raw food which would probably be very relevant for you:

http://blog.k9pro.com.au/raw-diet-in-steves-house/

Not sure if you can get K9natural where you are, but they do frozen and dehydrated food that makes great training treats:

http://www.k9natural.com/

I've toured several abattoirs and I'd especially never use "pet grade" meat uncooked or unfrozen. I've seen where it comes from and it's not nice - hygiene standards for "pet quality" meat are far lower than standards for carcass parts that are destined for the human food chain. :p

Edited September 20, 2013 by Staranais

[MonElite]

Dogs are scavengers and will eat meat that is totally off. Dead birds that have decomposed, rubbish if they can steal it, they dig out stuff that the bury weeks before.

So a bit of unhygienic stuff wont hurt them :)

[Steph M]

I've read things that state tumorous material from chickens and other animals can be used. That alone scares me right off it.

It's not the fact it might be prepared in ares of less than stellar cleanliness that irks me, it really is any bit of material they can get their hands on. Yucko!

[4darlingdogs]

Hi...I feed raw, this is what I do. Chicken frames for brekky and for dinners I use whatever is available that week to buy....could be beef or lamb hearts, beef cheeks, chicken or kangaroo mince, beef mince or whatever has been marked down and is affordable. I feed liver or kidneys ( one or the other) twice a week added to the other meat. I add a couple of spoons of Vets All Natural Mueslie to it along with some omega 3 oil. I do freeze everything generally because that's how I store it. I was scared to feed raw initially thinking it would be hard but its actually quite easy and not something to be worried about. SO many differing opinions out there just go with what feels right for you. It does take more work...but lets face it, that's why kibble was developed in the first place really...for convenience. I don't personally like to eat commercially produced pre packaged food and don't think it's that great for dogs either. It's clear my dogs LOVE the raw diet. Good luck with it. :)

[trifecta]

I subscribe to Dogs Naturally Magazine - I don't agree with all their articles, but I found this one helpful :)

Raw Diets for Dogs - getting enough vitamins & minerals

[Vurd2BB]

Hi

Just thought i would pose a question that is leaving me a little worried.

I feed my dog raw, mornings is generally raw chicken, chicken pet mince (generally just mulched bone) and offal in the mornings, at night mince, wings, vit b, e and fish oil.

I have noticed she is lower on energy as of late, not all of a sudden as in overnight, but over the last month or so. Don't get me wrong still goes nuts every now and then in the house, so i thought she needed more exercise.

She doesn't last very long while playing fetch, maybe 15 minutes going all out. I have started taking her for runs on Wednesday arvo, and 2 times on Saturday and sunday (only just started this past weekend, before i would take her to play fetch at least 2 times on the weekend). Every other day she gets walked.

She usually has her balls with her every day too, so i have taken these away so while we are at work she gets other toys but not balls, to see if this will make her more keen for the ball on rope when playing tug. She will still chase the ball down playing fetch no problem.

She is 2 years old now, eating about 850 - 950 grams of raw split into 2, some kibble in a toy. I would put her at weighing around 33 - 35kgs.

Any ideas, diet lacking? will the increased exercise help ? I notice she is very calm after the running sessions, her drive seems to be lower now too, than what it was before.

Over thinking maybe ?

Any tips welcome!!

Cheers

[silentchild]

She is 2 years old now, eating about 850 - 950 grams of raw split into 2, some kibble in a toy. I would put her at weighing around 33 - 35kgs.

What breed of dog is she?

Edited October 28, 2013 by silentchild

[Vurd2BB]

She is 2 years old now, eating about 850 - 950 grams of raw split into 2, some kibble in a toy. I would put her at weighing around 33 - 35kgs.

What breed of dog is she?

I knew i would forget something, she is a GSD, i have created my own thread as per another users advice to get better responses.

Please reply here;

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/253004-gsd-raw-diet/

Thanks