Advice Please (please Be Kind)

[westiemum]

Oops - just noticed you're in Qld - but the advice still stands. Slap BF, get her desexed next week, love her to bits for the rest of her life and consider fostering. Too many homeless staffies going down all over the country sadly - don't need any more.

Edited August 31, 2013 by westiemum

[Lasareina]

Thanks guys - I was a bit worried about posting as I have read some quite nasty responses in other threads :-/ a lot of people on here obviously have lots of experience and I think they sometimes forget that everyone has to start somewhere :-)

I think hunter is definitely a "possum" ... I was starting to think he might be otherwise inclined haha ... Thats a good point about finding out early!

I'm personally leaning towards speying her rather than injections... We were already thinking that it would be a bad idea to mate them due to the size difference anyway.

I know there are lots of staffies around - I guess I'm like everyone else in thinking that mine are the best haha we have always adopted dogs from the pound in the past but we really wanted pups that would grow up with us, and staffies are our favorite breed <3

[Lasareina]

Appreciate all the supportive and helpful comments :)

[kelpiecuddles]

Lasareina I was like you about 10 years ago. I never got quite this far along in to the idea but i did entertain the idea of not desexing my first dog and breeding her. Like you in the end i had a rethink and ended up getting her desexed. Ten years later I'm now working towards a five year plan that will see me registering as a breeder and down the track breeding and showing bassets. I did change my mind about breeding that first dog after i learnt more but the desire to breed dogs has never really left me, I've just decided to 'do it better' :) If you really do want to breed why not think about it as a future idea. Enjoy your current dogs desexed and down the track if you ever decide to get another dog source it from a registered breeder and show it, get yourself a prefix and move in to breeding as you learn more. Staffies are great little dogs and a well-bred staffy at a show is a sight to behold!

[Lasareina]

Thanks Kelpiecuddles ... that does sound like a good plan :)

[Dory the Doted One]

I have seen bitches desexed right up to about 7-8 weeks pregnant

Please, don't do this to vet nurses. Euthanising unborn puppies and kittens is not fun, even when looking at the bigger picture. Do her when she's finished her season.

[WreckitWhippet]

- How likely is it that Juno will become pregnant after one mating?

Very high

- Juno is only 9 months old - we had been considering possibly breeding the two of them further down the track but weren't considering this before she was about 2 1/2. What are the dangers for her to carry pups at 9 months?

Whilst a season indicates that they are physically able to mate and carry pups, there's the more serious question of is she mentally ready ? I can tell you now as a breeder of SBT's that you do not want a puppy raising puppies, they can be good mothers but they can also be very stupid, refuse to settle and eat their young.

- Hunter is large for a stafford (22kg) and Juno is very small and petite (12kg). This has caused us to question whether they would ever be suitable to breed together. What are the dangers involved with the dog being much larger than the bitch?

No they aren't a suitable match in terms of size. You also need to look at are they a suitable match with bloodlines, type and temperament . Have they been tested for L2

HGA & HC and eye tested ?

- What are the "morning after"/abortion options, and what are the risks?

You can have your vet administer the mismating injection (Alizin).

You could also spey when she has finished her season, this will abort any puppies

- Would you consider it more risky to try and abort the possible pregnancy, or allow it to continue?

I would consider it a risk to continue, there's a very good chance you'll end up with an emergency c -section and a young mother with no idea what to do with the puppies.

I'm not going to be kind , it was your responsibility as an owner of an entire dog and bitch to understand how a bitch cycles and to take adequate precautions to ensure they did not mate.

[WreckitWhippet]

I have seen bitches desexed right up to about 7-8 weeks pregnant

Please, don't do this to vet nurses. Euthanising unborn puppies and kittens is not fun, even when looking at the bigger picture. Do her when she's finished her season.

I'm sorry but that goes with the territory if you are a vet nurse or a vet and if an owner wants a bitch aborted at that stage in a pregnancy for whatever reason, then they shouldn't be subject to that emotional crap from surgery staff.

[Dory the Doted One]

I have seen bitches desexed right up to about 7-8 weeks pregnant

Please, don't do this to vet nurses. Euthanising unborn puppies and kittens is not fun, even when looking at the bigger picture. Do her when she's finished her season.

I'm sorry but that goes with the territory if you are a vet nurse or a vet and if an owner wants a bitch aborted at that stage in a pregnancy for whatever reason, then they shouldn't be subject to that emotional crap from surgery staff.

True. But there is nothing wrong with mentioning it either. It's distasteful. Necessary at times, but still distasteful. What's your problem with it being mentioned to the OP?

NO ONE gives crap to clients about their decisions at our clinic. That's what a tea room and sympathic colleagues are for.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I know there are lots of staffies around - I guess I'm like everyone else in thinking that mine are the best haha we have always adopted dogs from the pound in the past but we really wanted pups that would grow up with us, and staffies are our favorite breed <3

I just wanted to clarify this - were you planning on having a litter and keeping all the puppies?

If you've had your two as puppies, then they've grown up with you, hopefully 2 is enough right now.

[BlackJaq]

If you want to have a puppy to raise then I have to ask why you did not purchase one from a registered breeder, instead of considering contributing to the problem?

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but breeding a litter of staffy x, which are a dime a dozen where I live, and one, if not THE most killed dog at our pound, seems incredibly selfish and stupid to me, when you could instead purchase a health checked puppy from a registered breeder, who puts in about a thousand times more effort than you have, in selecting and health checking and matching their breeding stock.

If you just want to play with puppies, why not volunteer at a pound, shelter or rescue?

Were you going to keep them all? Even if she had ten? Or did you think you were going to sell the excess to make some cash? I hate to disappoint you, but by the time you pay even just for food, you will not get enough money for a staffy pup to cover that basic cost. They will crap and pee everywhere, the will chew your things and dig up your garden. They are not legal to leave your care until 8 weeks old. Where are you going to keep ten 7 week old, active staffy puppies that are looking for something to amuse themselves with?

Are you going to pay to have them all chipped? Vaccinated? Vet checked? What if they have health issues or Mum does not want to nurse them? Are you going to hand feed and toilet ten puppies? If you do not have time or money for this, are you going to euthanize some of them? Half? All except one?

I suggest you think about all of these things BEFORE you have a bitch in whelp and about to drop them under your house or in your lounge room...

[Purdie]

Good on you for seeking advise and being willing to learn more.Your dogs don't sound like a good match for having pups.Also you would have trouble finding homes for them all as there are so many Staffordshire pups and their crosses in pet shops and animal shelters.Have your boyfriend look on line at the shelter lists around Australia and you will see the majority are staffy breeds and their crosses.How would he feel if a pup he bred ended up in the pound.

Get your dogs desexed asap and enjoy them for the wonderful pets they are.The idea of helping with pups in rescue is a good one.

Can you not desex a bitch while she is still on heat or is it better to wait a few weeks?? I've heard of it being done .

[juice]

I think you need to write down the stuff BJ has said and leave it out for your boyfriend to see.

Cost of C section ( possibly emergency one too), cost of raising a litter of pups, food, vacs, chips etc.

Then look at what byb staffys are going for.

If you hit him in the pocket he may listen.

That's besides the heartache of her dyeing during the birth.

Is he going to be responsible for each puppy for the rest of its life if the new owners don't want them ,or does he not care if they die in the pound later, like all the other byb staffies that outnumber any breed in any pound?( they were all once cute little pups someone thought was a good idea to produce).

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Everyone, and I mean everyone, can make puppies and either give them away or sell them. Easiest thing in the world - everyone loves a cutesie puppy. I actually don't - I've cared for rescue puppies and it's bloody hard work.

The trick is, as Juice said, once you've brought them into this world you have that as a massive responsibility so when the pups need help - sometimes it only takes a week for a new owner to get sick of them - you'll need to take them back. A week, month, 6 months, year or few years on.

Can you do it? Many can't or won't. Petshops don't. I work in rescue and you'd be so amazed by how many people buy puppies in petshops or online and then find it's a real nuisance, the puppy needs looking after, training, food, good fencing and so on.

[dancinbcs]

I have seen bitches desexed right up to about 7-8 weeks pregnant

Please, don't do this to vet nurses. Euthanising unborn puppies and kittens is not fun, even when looking at the bigger picture. Do her when she's finished her season.

All the ones I saw were in a shelter and the nurse there much preferred putting down unborn litters than putting down the 5-6 week old surrendered litters or the adult dogs and cats she had to do everyday. The older they were the harder it is so better to do it before they are old enough to survive on their own.

[westiemum]

Some excellent posts. I think you have your answer. I look at my beautiful 12 year old Sarah and thank my lucky stars I decided to have her desexed. I still have her and she is recognised widely as a smiley happy and incredibly healthy girl - yet it all could have been so different.

Get Juno desexed and hopefully look forward to 12 year old birthday happy snaps like these:

[Lasareina]

I have seen bitches desexed right up to about 7-8 weeks pregnant

Please, don't do this to vet nurses. Euthanising unborn puppies and kittens is not fun, even when looking at the bigger picture. Do her when she's finished her season.

Yes, whether we decide to use the injection or get her speyed it will be as early as possible... I also don't like the idea of aborting further developed puppies, and it would also be more stressfull on Juno.

I'm not going to be kind , it was your responsibility as an owner of an entire dog and bitch to understand how a bitch cycles and to take adequate precautions to ensure they did not mate.

That is fine- I didn't ask for sugarcoating, just not for people to gang up on me and beat me to death with their opinions as I have seen occur in other posts. Obviously you are perfect, and have a perfect record from the moment you started, but not all of us can claim this. I already stated that I knew I had made a mistake and felt terrible about it. I was asking for advice and education which is how people (who aren't born perfect) learn and improve.

I know there are lots of staffies around - I guess I'm like everyone else in thinking that mine are the best haha we have always adopted dogs from the pound in the past but we really wanted pups that would grow up with us, and staffies are our favorite breed <3

I just wanted to clarify this - were you planning on having a litter and keeping all the puppies?

If you've had your two as puppies, then they've grown up with you, hopefully 2 is enough right now.

No I was referring to why were bought our current two pups rather than adopting from the pound as we would normally do... we would not have been able to keep any pups from this litter if it proceeded.

If you want to have a puppy to raise then I have to ask why you did not purchase one from a registered breeder, instead of considering contributing to the problem?

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but breeding a litter of staffy x, which are a dime a dozen where I live, and one, if not THE most killed dog at our pound, seems incredibly selfish and stupid to me, when you could instead purchase a health checked puppy from a registered breeder, who puts in about a thousand times more effort than you have, in selecting and health checking and matching their breeding stock.

If you just want to play with puppies, why not volunteer at a pound, shelter or rescue?

Were you going to keep them all? Even if she had ten? Or did you think you were going to sell the excess to make some cash? I hate to disappoint you, but by the time you pay even just for food, you will not get enough money for a staffy pup to cover that basic cost. They will crap and pee everywhere, the will chew your things and dig up your garden. They are not legal to leave your care until 8 weeks old. Where are you going to keep ten 7 week old, active staffy puppies that are looking for something to amuse themselves with?

Are you going to pay to have them all chipped? Vaccinated? Vet checked? What if they have health issues or Mum does not want to nurse them? Are you going to hand feed and toilet ten puppies? If you do not have time or money for this, are you going to euthanize some of them? Half? All except one?

I suggest you think about all of these things BEFORE you have a bitch in whelp and about to drop them under your house or in your lounge room...

I believe I answered your question above - The only reason I was considering continue this pregnancy was if it was considered less risky than trying to abort, which I had heard had some severe side affects. Not so we could have puppies to "play with". And yes, if we went ahead with the pregnancy I was prepared to be fully responsible for it including all the costs you mentioned.

As soon as someone who is not an experienced, registered breeder mentions anything about having puts they seem to be catergorised as the average bogan who wants puppies to pay for beer money, feeds their dogs chum and leaves them on a chain in the backyard day in and out. My dogs get the best food possible, are fully insured and are taken to the vet at the drop of a hat if anything seem off. Any puppies would receive the same care. I also believe you can have your own details recorded on the microchip along with the new owners so you can be notifed if they ever get into trouble - at which point of course we would step in and take them back. I know the general attitude on this forum is that only registered breeders can be ethical but I personally don't subscribe to that idea.

This is beside the point however as it had already been determined earlier in the thread that it would be less risky to abort, and this is what we have decided to do. We are now just deciding whether to give the injection or spey.

I know a lot of you have been saying just hit the bf over the head and spey, but in reality, Juno is more his dog than mine. Also, I think pet owners are allowed to have different opinions, even if not in agreement with the prevailing opinion on this forum. He may decide that speying is the best option, or he may not... he is also a caring, responsible pet owner who is aware of the inherent risks (and costs)of breeding so I don't think forcing my, or others, opinion is appropriate. I will make my opinion known however ;)

Thanks for all the helpful comments.

[Lasareina]

Cute photos Westiemum :)

[westiemum]

Cute photos Westiemum :)

Thanks - yes feeling a bit whimsical! I was so proud of her on her birthday - don't usually celebrate all birthdays but this year she turned 12 and every year from here on in is precious.

Reading your last post I didn't realise that Juno was more BF's than yours - that does paint a slightly different picture as I was assuming the dog was more yours. And we do get a lot of BFs who have no idea!

And the truth is L, that on this forum we do get a lot of people who want to pick the brains of the breeders and posters here for nothing and then think they are going to make a killing financially through indiscriminate BYB. Its refreshing to find someone like you who is brave enough to admit a potential mistake, show they are going to at least consider the advice and follow-through - and you're absolutely congratulated for it - but I'm sure you understand people's weariness, wariness (and shortness!) with it as well.

Good to hear you've decided on the injections or spey. Will be very interested to hear how you get on with it all. Good luck!

Edited September 1, 2013 by westiemum

[Xyz]

I have seen bitches desexed right up to about 7-8 weeks pregnant

Please, don't do this to vet nurses. Euthanising unborn puppies and kittens is not fun, even when looking at the bigger picture. Do her when she's finished her season.

Yes, whether we decide to use the injection or get her speyed it will be as early as possible... I also don't like the idea of aborting further developed puppies, and it would also be more stressfull on Juno.

I'm not going to be kind , it was your responsibility as an owner of an entire dog and bitch to understand how a bitch cycles and to take adequate precautions to ensure they did not mate.

That is fine- I didn't ask for sugarcoating, just not for people to gang up on me and beat me to death with their opinions as I have seen occur in other posts. Obviously you are perfect, and have a perfect record from the moment you started, but not all of us can claim this. I already stated that I knew I had made a mistake and felt terrible about it. I was asking for advice and education which is how people (who aren't born perfect) learn and improve.

I know there are lots of staffies around - I guess I'm like everyone else in thinking that mine are the best haha we have always adopted dogs from the pound in the past but we really wanted pups that would grow up with us, and staffies are our favorite breed <3

I just wanted to clarify this - were you planning on having a litter and keeping all the puppies?

If you've had your two as puppies, then they've grown up with you, hopefully 2 is enough right now.

No I was referring to why were bought our current two pups rather than adopting from the pound as we would normally do... we would not have been able to keep any pups from this litter if it proceeded.

If you want to have a puppy to raise then I have to ask why you did not purchase one from a registered breeder, instead of considering contributing to the problem?

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but breeding a litter of staffy x, which are a dime a dozen where I live, and one, if not THE most killed dog at our pound, seems incredibly selfish and stupid to me, when you could instead purchase a health checked puppy from a registered breeder, who puts in about a thousand times more effort than you have, in selecting and health checking and matching their breeding stock.

If you just want to play with puppies, why not volunteer at a pound, shelter or rescue?

Were you going to keep them all? Even if she had ten? Or did you think you were going to sell the excess to make some cash? I hate to disappoint you, but by the time you pay even just for food, you will not get enough money for a staffy pup to cover that basic cost. They will crap and pee everywhere, the will chew your things and dig up your garden. They are not legal to leave your care until 8 weeks old. Where are you going to keep ten 7 week old, active staffy puppies that are looking for something to amuse themselves with?

Are you going to pay to have them all chipped? Vaccinated? Vet checked? What if they have health issues or Mum does not want to nurse them? Are you going to hand feed and toilet ten puppies? If you do not have time or money for this, are you going to euthanize some of them? Half? All except one?

I suggest you think about all of these things BEFORE you have a bitch in whelp and about to drop them under your house or in your lounge room...

I believe I answered your question above - The only reason I was considering continue this pregnancy was if it was considered less risky than trying to abort, which I had heard had some severe side affects. Not so we could have puppies to "play with". And yes, if we went ahead with the pregnancy I was prepared to be fully responsible for it including all the costs you mentioned.

As soon as someone who is not an experienced, registered breeder mentions anything about having puts they seem to be catergorised as the average bogan who wants puppies to pay for beer money, feeds their dogs chum and leaves them on a chain in the backyard day in and out. My dogs get the best food possible, are fully insured and are taken to the vet at the drop of a hat if anything seem off. Any puppies would receive the same care. I also believe you can have your own details recorded on the microchip along with the new owners so you can be notifed if they ever get into trouble - at which point of course we would step in and take them back. I know the general attitude on this forum is that only registered breeders can be ethical but I personally don't subscribe to that idea.

This is beside the point however as it had already been determined earlier in the thread that it would be less risky to abort, and this is what we have decided to do. We are now just deciding whether to give the injection or spey.

I know a lot of you have been saying just hit the bf over the head and spey, but in reality, Juno is more his dog than mine. Also, I think pet owners are allowed to have different opinions, even if not in agreement with the prevailing opinion on this forum. He may decide that speying is the best option, or he may not... he is also a caring, responsible pet owner who is aware of the inherent risks (and costs)of breeding so I don't think forcing my, or others, opinion is appropriate. I will make my opinion known however ;)

Thanks for all the helpful comments.

Great responses L. Good on you for not taking sh#t from ppl :)