Advice Please (please Be Kind)

[Lasareina]

I know there are lots of people with very strong opinions about this topic, and I expect I'll be blasted. But I still need advice and this forum has the highest concentration of knowlegable people I can ask :)

I have a male and a female stafford. Last night I went downstairs to find them tied. We were aware that Juno was on heat but did not think she was at the fertile/receptive stage as Hunter has not shown any attempt at mounting her. They have been seperated while we were not there supervising but were (stupidly) let out to go to the toilet together and took the opportunity. This is my first time owning undesexed dogs so I guess you can see my inexperience showing!

Anyway, now that it has happened I have a few questions:

- How likely is it that Juno will become pregnant after one mating?

- Juno is only 9 months old - we had been considering possibly breeding the two of them further down the track but weren't considering this before she was about 2 1/2. What are the dangers for her to carry pups at 9 months?

(I know most people on this forum are completely against non registered breeders breeding at all, and after reading more and more I am coming around to this view point... having said that all our dogs have been either rescued crossbreeds or from byb and have never had any strange health or behavioural issues)

- Hunter is large for a stafford (22kg) and Juno is very small and petite (12kg). This has caused us to question whether they would ever be suitable to breed together. What are the dangers involved with the dog being much larger than the bitch?

- What are the "morning after"/abortion options, and what are the risks?

- Would you consider it more risky to try and abort the possible pregnancy, or allow it to continue?

Both our dogs are well loved furbabies and I am very concerned for Juno, just not sure what would be the best course to follow.

I have read a lot of threads on this forum and am well aware of the negative opinion of back yard breeding, the opinion that there "is no excuse for accidental matings" etc. As the thread title says, please be kind - I already feel bad enough that this has happened. Just looking for some advice from people much more experienced than me.

[KJJ]

you could take her for an emergency spay - that will remove any need for concern over the potential pregnancy (please note I am not saying that in a nasty way, but it is certainly what I would do :) )

[ness]

Not a breeder but there are threads regarding the use of an Alizin injection if you search.

Here is one link - http://www.dolforums...in-experiences/

And a UK forum - http://www.dogpages.org.uk/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t255915.html

Edited August 31, 2013 by ness

[Diva]

I would take her to the vet for the injection, I believe if you intend to keep her entire it may affect the timing and fertility of her next season, but that would still be my course of action. I cannot comment on the risks associated with the size difference.

[JRG]

I agree with Diva. One mating is all that is necessary for her to conceive.

Get her to the vet and have the abortion injections. IMO she is much too young to have a litter regardless of the size issue.

Over the years I have had a couple of bitches injected (and know of others) no problems have eventuated except in the timing of the bitch's next season.

I am not in favour of emergency speys.

[RuralPug]

Without going into all the things that you need to consider before deliberately breeding my advice would be to go straight to the vet who can provide a "morning after" type contraceptive injection.

It is far far too risky to allow the pregnancy to continue given (a) she is still a puppy herself and (b) she will very probably never get large enough to have a 22kg stafford boy as a suitable breeding partner.

So if you do the injection this time then we still have another 18 months then in which to convince you of all the health tests/x-rays etc that need to be done on BOTH dogs before they can be cleared for responsible breeding and even if they pass all the tests the likelihood of them being suitable to mate to each other is really quite low.

Breeding is actually quite risky for bitches always and it is heartbreaking to lose your beloved dog due to whelping complications or to post-partum complications so it should never ever be something that is entered into lightly or without consideration of the possible consequences.

You strike me as a sensible type of person and so I suspect that Juno will be eventually desexed anyway (once you have talked your boyfriend around) but in the meantime definitely she should have a mismating injection to ensure that no pregnancy ensues.

[Xyz]

Sorry this happened to you...

I would Spey her in 3 weeks (once she's well out of season), or if you really want to keep her entire I second the Alizin injections.

I have been involved in a few c-sections that were simply because a small bitch had trouble delivering puppies sired by a large stud dog.

[Lasareina]

ok i think the general consensus is it is defineately more risky to continue the (possible :p) pregnancy. So the options seem to be this Alizin injection or the spey procedure. Does the injection need to be done in a certain number of days - earlier is better? Might still have to talk the bf around re spaying haha

[Xyz]

The Alizin can be given any time up to 6 weeks.

Some prefer to ultrasound at 28 days then inject only if pregnant, others give immediately regardless.

Either way it would be cheaper to spay!!

[Mim]

The responsible thing to do is to abort the litter, whether it be by spay or injection.

Does she have main register papers? If you are sure you can prevent future matings and want to become a responsible breeder then use the injection.

If you do not wish to become a responsible breeder then spay her.

It is not fair to make a puppy have a litter.

[persephone]

An accident - it's happened - now :

Firstly - slap your boyfriend hard .

then work on getting her speyed , unless she is of terrific pedigree and is registered with your canine council.

there are just so many stafford pups /dogs free to good homes etc and , I am being gentle here .. trying to stop you making bigger mistakes in a little while ... I know it's tempting to breed your dogs whom you love ... but ..have a peep here . sometime ..perhaps not now , but at some stage :) ....LINK .. LINK

then..slap the boyfriend again

Both our dogs are well loved furbabies and I am very concerned for Juno,

That's a good thing ... it means she will be spared this pregnancy :)

[Lasareina]

Thanks guys - appreciate all your comments. I will have a talk with the bf and give our vet a call on Monday. Great to see that everyone remained civil and offered constructive advise :)

[westiemum]

Years ago when I was thinking about going down the registered breeder route with Sarah my westie, and lurked here for well over 12 months, the thing that ultimately swayed me was a Westie breeder of over 30 years experience asked me ' The bottom line is are you prepared to lose her'? I wasn't , so I didn't and she was desexed a week later. Best decision I ever made to leave the breeding to those who really know what they are doing.

Good luck with Juno and whatever you decide. She sounds lovely!

Edited August 31, 2013 by westiemum

[RiverStar-Aura]

It took real guts to post like you did Lasareina; these treads can get quite nasty sometimes!

As unfortunate as the accidental mating was, you need to be glad that you were able to witness the tie -- this gives you time to hunt for answers. It would've been far worse to have discovered Juno preggers in the later stages with fewer options.

I do agree with the others that having her spayed is the way to go. STBs are getting such a bad rap in the media lately and can suffer a huge amount of health issues (bad skin allergies, patella probs etc) so I feel breeding should be left to those dogs proven to be good specimens.

They are probably one of the most abundant dogs in Australia and as a breed, they need help in regaining their true personalities -- not as feral, uncontrollable killing machines. They are a such a lovely dog and I dislike seeing so many in pounds or being labelled 'put bulls'.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Only thing I would add is don't wait too long to administer the Alizin. If it's given soon then it's much easier on the bitch than if it's given when she is 3 or 4 weeks on.

The Alizin won't prevent you having a litter from her in future. Some male dogs are very good at playing possum, one of ours convinced my OH he would be safe with the girl in season, then, bam! OH paid for the injections - there are two ;)

[Glen]

I'm really sorry that you are faced with this predicament. I know you are going to mourn the loss of these possible pups no matter how much you know this pregnancy should not be. I feel your pain.

[dancinbcs]

Be aware that if you opt for the injection she may come back into season fairly soon. The injection can also cause health issues later. Unless she is a registered purebred and a really good example of her breed I would just get her spayed in a couple of weeks when she is finished her season. I have seen bitches desexed right up to about 7-8 weeks pregnant with no problems but it is easier and cheaper to do it earlier in the pregnancy. So many people do not realise that the bitch can still be spayed while pregnant and let unwanted litters be born through ignorance. Good on you for asking for advice and considering all options. Do whatever is best for your bitch and ignore the BF and what he wants, it isn't about him.

Unless you are a registered breeder and the dogs outstanding examples of the breed (and I doubt if your boy is 22kg) then breeding is not advisable at all. There is a huge overpopulation of unregistered Staffy types and far too many are euthanised in pounds all over the country every week so adding any more to those numbers is irresponsible. There is nothing worse than breeding a litter that can cost you a couple of thousand dollars if things go wrong then finding that there are no homes for them to go to and they have to be pts. Better to abort them before they are born.

[westiemum]

Excellent post danc.and River Star. Lasareina I think you have your answer. It's about what's best for your girl not your BF. So I'd have her spayed next week.

And if you really want to contribute to the dog world, rescue or foster a puppy instead - maybe contact Tracey and Lynn at NSWR and offer to help out with the litters they foster. Now that would be a real contribution.

Edited August 31, 2013 by westiemum

[sandgrubber]

Chances she's preggers are very high. Bitches only permit mating when they're in their fertile time of the heat cycle.

There are two sorts of injections that can be given to abort. One can only be given soon after the mating. If I remember correctly, it's an oestrogen compound, like many morning-after formulations, and a lot cheaper than the Alizin injections. So far as i know, both are very low risk, though there may be some bloody discharge. Obviously, the longer she carries pups, the greater the effect of the pregnancy on her body, and the more the embryos will be like little dogs, as opposed to small masses of cells. See your vet ASAP.

Edited August 31, 2013 by sandgrubber

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

An accident - it's happened - now :

Firstly - slap your boyfriend hard .

then work on getting her speyed , unless she is of terrific pedigree and is registered with your canine council.

there are just so many stafford pups /dogs free to good homes etc and , I am being gentle here .. trying to stop you making bigger mistakes in a little while ... I know it's tempting to breed your dogs whom you love ... but ..have a peep here . sometime ..perhaps not now , but at some stage :) ....LINK .. LINK

then..slap the boyfriend again

Both our dogs are well loved furbabies and I am very concerned for Juno,

That's a good thing ... it means she will be spared this pregnancy :)

said perfectly. Not good to have a puppy get pregnant so best not to continue with the pregnancy and best not to make any more staffies, they are over-represented in the pound/rescue.