Why You Shouldn't Shave Your Long Coated Dog

[Malamum]

Both my two have double coats. Very easy to brush and look after. Their double coat insulates them against cold and hot so I'm not going to mess with nature.

Yep, another one here who is not messing with nature.

So what double coated, long haired breeds were actually breed for warm to hot climates?

My parents are Dutch and they tell me my grandmother always had Newfies, beautiful dogs with thick coats - for the cold weather. Yes, these breeds have a thick coat to insulate them ........ against the cold.

My dogs were bred for the cold but I do truly believe their coat insulates them against the heat too. The trick is to not let their body temperature raise too much and if they start cool they seem to be able to maintain it just fine. That just means no walks on really hot and humid days and I keep them inside and keep them as calm as possible. As soon as their body temperature raises it takes them forever to bring it back down again.

Indy had a hot spot on his back when he was quite young and the vet shaved a very large area of his coat. It never grew back properly and we kept having reoccurring issues in that same area as he didn't have his coat to protect him. Even today his coat is terrible and it gets really dirty and all sorts of plants and prickles stick to him and I'm forever picking at him to try and get it all out. Kira on the other hand still has a beautiful thick double coat and although she sheds like crazy her coat does it's job and protects her, everything just slides straight off and she always looks clean.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Malamum

[BC Crazy]

I'm another who doesn'let my guys get too hot. I have cool coats for them if air con is unavailable for them. I don't let them suffer weather extremes.

[~Anne~]

The article fails to recognise a lot of things.

It is true that the way a dog reduces body temperature is through panting and through sweat glands on the pads of the feet. However, dogs also have veins that carry blood like a human. If the veins closest to the surface have cool air blowing on them, it helps to cool the blood. Just like a human.

This is why a dog will lay flat on its belly on cold tiles to cool itself. It can't get the same effect through fur. Most dogs have very little fur on their bellies.

If the fur is removed, the dog does have more opportunity to cool itself simply through the blood it carries through it's veins.

For the cold climate and artic breeds the coat insulates them and stops the cold air getting to the skin where the veins are.

I can understand the logic in espinay's post above and I do not think that all dogs benefit necessarily from being shaved. I also agree that if you shave a dog because you're sick of the hair then you are doing it for nothing. The dog will still shed. It will just be short and spiked hair which is harder to remove from material if you ask me!

My mother in law's BC was shaved every year. I never saw a problem with it. Tasha looked like a puppy each time. She was friskier and cooler. Her coat always grew back beautifully.

Edited September 1, 2013 by ~Anne~

[sandgrubber]

here is a diagram from a husky forum regarding heat and double coats.

The diagram looks pretty much like the diagrams we draw regarding thermal insulation for a house, EXCEPT they failed to show that the heat escapes more easily when the insulation is removed (ie, shaved dog). They show only the incoming energy from solar radiation. If a dog is too hot it will get out of the sun, so unless you're exceptionally cruel and give your dog no access to shade, that one is only semi relevant, and the yellow sun rays can be taken out of the diagram.

Bottom line, heat flows from warmer regions to cooler regions. If the air temperature is below 38 to 39 C, the insulation of coat serves to retain heat for your dog.

Think about your own comfort seeking behavior. A dog's coat behaves like a jumper or coat or blanket. Would you put on a coat to insulate yourself from the heat when it's 35 C?

When air temperature goes over body temperature, we're in trouble, regardless of species. Cooling measures like sweating, panting, seeking cool shade, etc. kick in bigtime.

[Yonjuro]

I think the purpose of the illustration is to show that the undercoat needs to be thinned and kept in good order and that the guard hairs should remain.

[Guest donatella]

Are there different varieties of double coat? I worry about my Poms in the Qld summer as they have big thick coats, very different to that of say a border collie. I know a Pom breeder who shaves hers back in the summer and has done for 30 years and never had a problem.

[Bjelkier]

Are there different varieties of double coat? I worry about my Poms in the Qld summer as they have big thick coats, very different to that of say a border collie. I know a Pom breeder who shaves hers back in the summer and has done for 30 years and never had a problem.

Some coats would be thicker then others depending on breed but I know plenty of Samoyeds who live outside in QLD and have never needed to be shaved off.

[Guest donatella]

I've never shaved mine but they live indoors as they would bark at birds and leaves if left outside. They always get a fan but some Qld summer days get well over 35 degrees! I would hope never to do it but would be happy too if it meant they were more comfortable. But I have heard their coat is cooling in summer so I dont know.

[gsdog2]

here is a diagram from a husky forum regarding heat and double coats.

The diagram looks pretty much like the diagrams we draw regarding thermal insulation for a house, EXCEPT they failed to show that the heat escapes more easily when the insulation is removed (ie, shaved dog). They show only the incoming energy from solar radiation. If a dog is too hot it will get out of the sun, so unless you're exceptionally cruel and give your dog no access to shade, that one is only semi relevant, and the yellow sun rays can be taken out of the diagram.

Bottom line, heat flows from warmer regions to cooler regions. If the air temperature is below 38 to 39 C, the insulation of coat serves to retain heat for your dog.

Think about your own comfort seeking behavior. A dog's coat behaves like a jumper or coat or blanket. Would you put on a coat to insulate yourself from the heat when it's 35 C?

When air temperature goes over body temperature, we're in trouble, regardless of species. Cooling measures like sweating, panting, seeking cool shade, etc. kick in bigtime.

Thanks for sharing this sensible explanation

Edited September 1, 2013 by gsdog2

[Leah82]

here is a diagram from a husky forum regarding heat and double coats.

The diagram fails to take into account the dogs colouring. In basic physics you learn that darker colours absorb light and therefore heat and lighter colours reflect light and heat.

If you have a mostly black dog it will absorb heat when out in the sun and if the coat is long the dog will not be able to cool itself very easily.

[Pjrt]

After 27 yrs as a grooming salon owner/operator I have just about seen & heard it all, but I will write here from my personal experience & views.

Pet owners for the most part are dealing with desexed coats. No one can tell me that on certain breeds especially, that equates to a lot more coat, and more difficult grooming conditions. Many pet owners could cope with an entire Cavalier, Cocker or Golden coat for example, but most once desexed often develop enormous coats quite unlike the coats they saw on their breeders dogs. Most of the heavy coated double coats like Collies & Samoyeds have humungous coats once desexed that don't tend to shed annually in cycles but retain massive coats all year round. Yes pet owners are probably a bit lazy with the grooming too and that just adds to the problems.

I am one that is not highly against clipping pretty much any dog. If that is what the owner can cope with and prevents the dog from becoming a packed or dreadlocked disaster, then after a bit of a talk about the pro's & cons, most go for the clip. I even have a short coat Chihuahua that I reverse 7# every 4-6 weeks all year round. He is probably the most loved pet dog I see in my shop! That is how they want to manage his coat thats their choice, The dog is a cherished & pampered house pet and shaving hasn't harmed him at all.

Then there are the issues of grooming tolerance. If for example I had a neglected Samoyed or RC Collie come through the door. Im not talking just a packed undercoat but a seriously felted to the skin mess. I am very capable of salvaging most double coats with deep washing and force drying techniques, but some dogs are so completely intolerant to the slightest pulling on the coat that I would not put a Samoyed through a 4 hrs screaming match or a Collie through several hours of snapping and distress. Out comes the scissors & clippers.

Then there are the elderly dogs whose physical capabilities are less.

Yes where possible in an ideal world where people groom their dogs well & often I would prefer to do a thorough bath & groom but we don't live in that ideal world so clipping/shaving is often the most humane approach to deal with what is presented.

In my own experience after many years as a dog groomer hearing all the 'don't ever shave double coats' I became a Chow Chow owner. For several years his coat was kept impeccably as a full coat. One year about this time watching in the space of a week or 2 him go from an active happy dog to a panting mess struggling in the heat one day I cracked & shaved it all off. I can't even begin to describe the change. In the space of 2 hrs he went from overheated having to sit still in the cool spots, to bouncing about like a puppy doing whatever he pleased. From that moment on my thinking shifted on double coats. Now I talk with owners about their dogs coat type, coat condition, their grooming (or lack of) grooming routine, the age & physical condition of the dog, the lifestyle of the dog etc etc. Clipping is never ruled out and often is the answer for an all round happier dog/owner relationship.

I have never had a dog yet adversely affected by clipping/shaving. Quite the opposite in most cases.

I wont say I love doing it, but I will do it.

[Yonjuro]

here is a diagram from a husky forum regarding heat and double coats.

The diagram fails to take into account the dogs colouring. In basic physics you learn that darker colours absorb light and therefore heat and lighter colours reflect light and heat.

If you have a mostly black dog it will absorb heat when out in the sun and if the coat is long the dog will not be able to cool itself very easily.

The diagram shows how a compacted undercoat will impact on the dogs ability to regulate heat. It is not a comprehensive study on all aspects of heat regulation in canines. :)

I think the message is pretty simple - keep the undercoat in good order and you shouldn't need to shave a double coated dog to keep it cooler.

... or perhaps the thousands of people in Australia who keep huskies ranging from white to black are all wrong and should change their thinking and shave their dogs in summer? :D

[mita]

Thanks, skyefool, your experience with the Chow Chow matches my experience with a particularly thick-coated Tibbie from Scandinavia.

Thanks, too, Ynjuro, for your opposing comment. Only in a specific case, have I elected to have one Tibbie clipped right back. But I understand I must then sustain it.... which is easy in this Qld sub-tropical climate. Like the Chow Chow, the little dog's behaviour shows how much more comfortable she is. Also, even with her undercoat stripped as best as possible, hunting for ticks in our hideous tick season, was a nightmare. The position is quite different for our other Tibbies whose under-coats are far less thick and manageable.

And I sure can't speak for any other person's dog or breed. :)

[Yonjuro]

THanks Mita

I should have said that my research into this is only Husky specific, I have no knowledge of whether shaving other dogs is the same. I always shaved my late mini-schnauzer in summer and she would jump and run around like a puppy after a fresh shave :D

I should also say that Perth summers are very hot but usually dry, I imagine humid heat would cause it's own set of management issues.

[Steph M]

When our English Setter aged he got the full clip, he was arthritic and started to squat to go and thus had a lot of trouble peeing with any great accuracy, so rather than him making a mess of his fur, it was easier to clip him right down and it did make him cooler, I believe. He didn't spend lots of time outside toward the end so I don't think sunburn was much of an issue, but from an older dog point of view I think it makes life a bit easier. He certainly didn't mind, and it alerted us to any new 'old dog' lumps that might be cropping up, or when his nails needed doing more regularly due to less walks or other things like that.

[Clyde]

1378081857[/url]' post='6289181']

After 27 yrs as a grooming salon owner/operator I have just about seen & heard it all, but I will write here from my personal experience & views.

Pet owners for the most part are dealing with desexed coats. No one can tell me that on certain breeds especially, that equates to a lot more coat, and more difficult grooming conditions. Many pet owners could cope with an entire Cavalier, Cocker or Golden coat for example, but most once desexed often develop enormous coats quite unlike the coats they saw on their breeders dogs. Most of the heavy coated double coats like Collies & Samoyeds have humungous coats once desexed that don't tend to shed annually in cycles but retain massive coats all year round. Yes pet owners are probably a bit lazy with the grooming too and that just adds to the problems.

I am one that is not highly against clipping pretty much any dog. If that is what the owner can cope with and prevents the dog from becoming a packed or dreadlocked disaster, then after a bit of a talk about the pro's & cons, most go for the clip. I even have a short coat Chihuahua that I reverse 7# every 4-6 weeks all year round. He is probably the most loved pet dog I see in my shop! That is how they want to manage his coat thats their choice, The dog is a cherished & pampered house pet and shaving hasn't harmed him at all.

Then there are the issues of grooming tolerance. If for example I had a neglected Samoyed or RC Collie come through the door. Im not talking just a packed undercoat but a seriously felted to the skin mess. I am very capable of salvaging most double coats with deep washing and force drying techniques, but some dogs are so completely intolerant to the slightest pulling on the coat that I would not put a Samoyed through a 4 hrs screaming match or a Collie through several hours of snapping and distress. Out comes the scissors & clippers.

Then there are the elderly dogs whose physical capabilities are less.

Yes where possible in an ideal world where people groom their dogs well & often I would prefer to do a thorough bath & groom but we don't live in that ideal world so clipping/shaving is often the most humane approach to deal with what is presented.

In my own experience after many years as a dog groomer hearing all the 'don't ever shave double coats' I became a Chow Chow owner. For several years his coat was kept impeccably as a full coat. One year about this time watching in the space of a week or 2 him go from an active happy dog to a panting mess struggling in the heat one day I cracked & shaved it all off. I can't even begin to describe the change. In the space of 2 hrs he went from overheated having to sit still in the cool spots, to bouncing about like a puppy doing whatever he pleased. From that moment on my thinking shifted on double coats. Now I talk with owners about their dogs coat type, coat condition, their grooming (or lack of) grooming routine, the age & physical condition of the dog, the lifestyle of the dog etc etc. Clipping is never ruled out and often is the answer for an all round happier dog/owner relationship.

I have never had a dog yet adversely affected by clipping/shaving. Quite the opposite in most cases.

I wont say I love doing it, but I will do it.

Absolutely agree!!

[sandgrubber]

The title of this thread should probably be changed to prevent spreading misinformation.

[Kajirin]

Never had to shave my huskies fur in summer, just made sure I groomed them proper as they started to blow their coats [didn't matter 1 dog took 3 hours to complete from pre wash brush to after wash blow and dry :laugh:]. These guys were living in rather hot temps in summer [usually over 40dC] and never had a problem. They were usually sleeping off hot days out under the verandah on their backs.

[sandgrubber]

btw, I don't think anyone is saying shaving is necessary, or any replacement for doing a good job of brushing out the undercoat.

The article in the OP has the science wrong. Shaving a dog will help it stay cool in hot weather. But brushing is also a good thing. Even if your intend to shave, your groomer will appreciate it (and probably charge you less) if you don't allow the undercoat to get tangled and matted up. Trimming off the guard hairs / outer coat and leaving a matted undercoat is an ugly thing to do.

[Crisovar]

here is a diagram from a husky forum regarding heat and double coats.

The diagram fails to take into account the dogs colouring. In basic physics you learn that darker colours absorb light and therefore heat and lighter colours reflect light and heat.

If you have a mostly black dog it will absorb heat when out in the sun and if the coat is long the dog will not be able to cool itself very easily.

The diagram shows how a compacted undercoat will impact on the dogs ability to regulate heat. It is not a comprehensive study on all aspects of heat regulation in canines. :)

I think the message is pretty simple - keep the undercoat in good order and you shouldn't need to shave a double coated dog to keep it cooler.

... or perhaps the thousands of people in Australia who keep huskies ranging from white to black are all wrong and should change their thinking and shave their dogs in summer? :D

THIS! I have never felt the need to shave my dogs for summer, and yes I live in QLD. My Long stockcoat GSD spends most of her day outside, she is groomed out thoroughly and regularly as any coated dog should be, she does not suffer during the QLD summer. I have been grooming dogs for nearly 30 years and the problem is most owners of double coated breeds simply do not keep the dog groomed out properly, many simply do not know how to keep the undercoat under control or wont put in the time. Of course a dog with a thick packed undercoat is not going to be comfortable, but groom it out and you have a different dog. Old or infirm dogs that find the grooming process uncomfortable may certainly benefit from a clip off, but the majority of dogs simply need to be groomed properly.