I'm Becoming Afraid To Walk My Dogs

[Alison03]

Any argument between me and Razor is actually none of your business, he has proved time and again he can give it out and also take it back.

Actually sweetie anything you say on a public forum is my business or anyone else's business. If you want to keep it private take it to a private message.

Well sweetheart as its a public forum I can pretty much say whatever I like, and as rule following is actively discouraged by several members I know they will appreciate my honesty and plain speaking, no holds barred. If someone is rude to me that opens the way for me to be rude to them right back, if you don't like it sweetie thats not my problem, it yours. Have a good day :)

[Alison03]

Jesus, I didn't say I didn't think it was not serious to break laws - read my posts... If you want to pick my posts to pieces read the whole thing in the context it is meant - don't pick out bits to suit your agenda (whatever it is)..

You know if you read slowly and concisely you will get the gist of most of my posts.

I said, there are loads of people out there that don't care about the law or what you want or need..

Next time I see a perfectly controlled dog off lead, I will congratulate the owner on such a wonderfully trained animal - BECAUSE it doesn't bother me that the well behaved/trained/controlled animal is off lead..

If it bothers you - go dob it in..

You can't make people care about the law - all you can do is dob them in.. If you want to spend your life dobbing every single off lead dog owner into the local council, then go for it.. I for one, have much better things to do with my life than dob every dog owner in that looks like it has a dog walking off lead..

You obviously feel my last post was aimed at you, it was aimed at everyone who feels its ok for off leash dogs to be walked in on lead areas, if you fit into that description then I guess you are part of my target. I have not picked apart your posts, despite the fact you seem to have picked apart mine earlier on in his thread, and called me contradictory, which is a lot nicer than when someone on this forum called me crazy, but to be honest none of those labels really bothers me.

What I'm attempting to point out is that the very people you support, could be the very people who help stricter dog laws be put in to place, its very simple for you to be part of those restrictive laws all you have to do is NOTHING. Let all the perfect off leash dogs sail passed you and say nothing, or you could go one step worse and congratulate the owners but if you really want to help society, you could compliment the owner and say "You do realise this is an on leash area don't you, I wouldn't want you to be fined". By doing nothing you are enabling the off leashers to take away our (and your ) freedom to walk our dogs. It will happen, google dog attacks and new dog laws, I am not making this all up, it will affect us all. Its not to late if everyone abides by the current law and makes sure our dogs are kept secure and on leashes where required and that stops most of the dog attacks it can only help us stay with the law we have. I'm not attacking you I just think there may be a downside to walking off leash dogs that may not have occurred to you.

I know this is a small forum and does not reach a lot of people but its been worked out if you tell one person, and that one person tells another the word will spread like wild fire. In political circles its accepted that if one person writes a letter or an email to an MP on a subject that means 500 people feel the same way, which in their eyes is 500 votes. Taking that a step further if a group get together to try to stop dog attacks and get new laws made that make parks no dog allowed, we are all sunk. Off lead dogs don't just piss off other people with dogs, its not just dog walkers that get attacked.

If you see an off leash walker, ringing the police won't help or the council, they want a name and address, just reminding nicely that this is an on lead area puts the thought in their heads that people are watching and caring what they do, they may tell you to F off but they still heard you, words that are said or written that you know apply to you are never forgotten, human beings are very susceptible to suggestion. All the off leash walkers I've encountered I've said very nicely (apart from the ones with scary dogs, I haven't been too nice then) "Are you aware this is an off leash area" and I haven't seen them since. They don't know who I am, perhaps I work for the local council, what do you think? You can't make people care about the law but they do care about being fined.

Steph don't take this personally its not meant that way.

You quoted me - if you were not responding to me, then don't quote me..

Edited to add - in my opinion, there isn't a downside to walking a well trained/behaved dog off lead. I wouldn't do it but I have seen a few and to be honest, they are a non issue.

You don't have to lecture me on the problems of outdated dog laws - I have been a dog owner and a member of this forum long enough to know what is and isn't OK..

So you spend your spare time making sure all the off lead dog walkers in your area are aware it is an on lead area or they can be fined - good for you..

I have much better things to do with my time - like enjoy my walk with my dog, instead of worrying about something that is of no concern to me (remember I am talking about well behaved/trained dogs who don't run off to meet me and my dog - they simply go about their walk like I do)..

If the dog was off lead, menacing and appearing dangerous - it probably wouldn't have an owner with it in my neck of the woods. So in this case, I would put a call in to our local ranger and let them know there is an off lead dog at such and such location. Now that owner should be fined.. Not the one, causing nobody any harm, minding his own business..

No wonder we can't take our dogs anywhere anymore..

If you have aren't too concerned for you dog. I'm happy for you. But some other people on the forum are more vulnerable and have more fragile dogs due to age, illness, size etc. SO I do see why they would be concerned. I've had a dog that was very capable of defending herself. She could easily kill smaller dogs if she wanted to. But breaking up a fight is just an inconvenience on my walk. Nobody wants to deal with this stuff every time they duck out for a walk.

I just think we shouldn't have to go out of our way to make things more convenient for people who want their dogs to be "free range". Why some people believe they deserve special rights? I don't know. I'd like to see what happens if there are NO leash laws- may the best dog win... losers can R.I.P.

Where the hell did I say I am not concerned for my dog??

Where huh?

I am very concerned for the well being of mine and every other dog/animal.. I have on more than a few occasions put myself in front of my dogs and between a charging dog and my dogs. I would do it again in an instant - I am not afraid of a charging dog. My experience tells me that in my town, where I walk my dogs, that the off lead dogs that come running at us are invariably tame and a growl and get lost is enough to get rid of most of them.

Just a couple of weeks ago, I lifted a GSD off my staffy cross and tossed her.. It isn't the first dog dispute I have broken up and I dare say (because I own a dog) it won't be the last one.. My staffy cross is extremely submissive - he tried to out run her but she caught him and he just curled into a ball..

My last dog had mast cell cancer for over 6 years, we lost him in October 2011 after a good long fight with chemo, holistic therapy and finally just palliative care... So much for me being not concerned about my dogs.

Also where did I say that I wanted leash free laws - I have never said that either.. I agree that people are flouting the law by not leashing their dogs.

No one wants that but you can't make people do something they are not going to do - law or not... All you can do is dob them in..

I am not going to repeat any more of what I have said a dozen times already.

You are going to choose to pick out of my posts what suits you and your argument..

I've highlighted your post above. If you are not concerned about dogs running up to you (and your dog) thats great . Some people are and I can't blame them because I don't know what their circumstances are. And not everyone lives in your town.

Also. I'm not congratulating anyone who puts others at risk. When some one runs a red light I'm not congratulating them for being a 'good driver' and getting to the other side safely.

And even though we can't make people follow the law. I'm not going to support that behaviour or congratulate anyone for breaking the law 'safely'.

Exactly right :)

[JulesP]

Any argument between me and Razor is actually none of your business, he has proved time and again he can give it out and also take it back.

Actually sweetie anything you say on a public forum is my business or anyone else's business. If you want to keep it private take it to a private message.

Well sweetheart as its a public forum I can pretty much say whatever I like, and as rule following is actively discouraged by several members I know they will appreciate my honesty and plain speaking, no holds barred. If someone is rude to me that opens the way for me to be rude to them right back, if you don't like it sweetie thats not my problem, it yours. Have a good day :)

Lucky for you I do follow the rules of this forum as what I would like to say to you would get me banned.

[RazorBlade]

Sorry where have I been rude?

[Clyde]

Trudy, I'm not wishing to offend, but I was wondering if you could teach yourself to comment all in the one post pretty please. The multiple posts from the one user is annoying as I've just gone back to re read a lot of pages as I've missed other peoples posts whizzing through your multiples. I actually thought it was against forum rules to repeatedly post as it's considered trying getting your posts up, but I can't find anything about it so perhaps it has changed, either way it's unnecessary, irritating and makes topics difficult to follow.

Cheers :)

[Loving my Oldies]

We tend to look at the past with rose-coloured glasses.

Life generally was much simpler....

Only a little bit of your post quoted, Mita, because the rose coloured glasses bit is spot on and the other? Well I'm glad you said "generally" because there were huge problems in society that were hidden and not discussed.

Definitely better times for dogs though.

[Angeluca]

In all your waffling on you seem to have forgotten to answer the question.

And not once have you stated why you think your above the law even tho it has been repeated asked

Listen, I've repeatedly answered what my motivations are and the way I go about doing the things I do in an effort to show that there is another side to the coin. Not everything is black and white.

To the sanctimonious, holier that thou attitude, OMG it's a by-law brigade. Unless you have never in your life broken/ignore a rule, give up on the lecturing.

Okay I change my view point now. I believe in stronger enforcement or leash laws, registration, dog containment on all dog owners (except for Razorblade).

Case closed.

Except? Razor????? why except razor??? Why should he be any different to those who have proven their stills as a handler or trainer????

Guide dogs are exceptionally trained they have to be because of their work but even if they are wearing their coat and are being walked by a person not visually impaired they still have to be on a lead in on lead areas?

If we take Razors word of mouth that he has effectively trained his dog (which we are) it still does not make him an exception.

Razor I applaud any one who has the ability to establish the ability that not all dog owners are bad. But there are ways of doing it. If you have taken such time in creating such an exceptional dog why risk and more problems upon yourself? If you dog was rushed and attacked because you also have him off lead you too could possibly find your self in trouble. You come off to the public as a arrogant SOB who thinks himself above the law because you openly choose to break it.

If your intention is to educate the public then go about it in an effective manner, Host obedience seminars, Approach schools to do displays, become an instructor in obedience, lobby for more off lead areas, Approach a cafe to make an fenced off lead eating area, host 'train your dog picnics' at local parks, approach news papers or Tv shows to display to the public not all dog owners are bad. Some of these may seem far fetched but what your currently doing is displaying bad ownership, as responsible ownership is not just effective control on a very healthy dog, it is also respect and responsibility and accountability in regards to laws and general public which just so happens to include non dog owners.

What you do is wrong and ineffective, sitting at a table where a dog should be leashed, some may see a nice dog but at least double that would see an unleashed dog who they don't know and can be frightened of, you won't even notice these people because they've already gone the other way and wouldn't it be these people who your trying to demonstrate to?

[RubyStar]

Except? Razor????? why except razor??? Why should he be any different to those who have proven their stills as a handler or trainer????

I haven't read even a quarter of these posts because really, it's going round it circles! But I am guessing the "except Razor" part was just sarcasm

[Rocketeer]

When I was a young'un, roaming dogs were looked upon as playmates for all of us kids in the area... what the hell changed over the years?

I lived in a lot of places (including Alice Springs and PNG) and neighbourhood dogs were just that - neighbourhood dogs... we ALL shared in the enjoyment of them. Everyone knew which dog belonged to which house, and we kids made sure said dogs got back home when we were finished playing and had to go in for our dinners... dogs were rarely seen as dangerous or narky - and all loved joining in the games of footy or cricket we kids were having.

When a neighbourhood dog had pups, all of us kids were there like shots to play with the pups - and invariably a few of us would end up with one for ourselves to take home (with parents' permission of course). Dogs in general were a HUGE part of every neighbourhood child's upbringing, and none of us had any fear of them at all.

Occasionally if we got bitten for some reason, we were asked what WE had done to deserve it - rather than branding the dog a vicious nasty thing that needed to be destroyed. We learned how to co-exist with all manner of dog types and breeds - and it was FUN!

And the biggest difference back then? If 2 dogs were "tussling" together, they weren't fighting... more likely mating... *grin*

Nowadays, dogs are becoming increasingly ostracised from everyday life - we can't take them anywhere to just hang out or play (like the beach or the playground). If we do take them out, there are so many restrictions on where and when and what we can do with them once we get there - it's all just too freaking hard now - so it's just easier to keep them at home and not let them interact with anyone or anything outside our own family. Is it any wonder then that some dogs, once free of their yards, are going to run amok?

And some of us have gone the complete opposite way as well. When we do take our dogs out, we don't want them interacting with others - human or otherwise. How can that be healthy for either the dog's state of mind, or their human's for that matter?

I want to go back to the "old days" - life with our dogs was MUCH better (and simpler) back then!

T.

If you renounce all possessions move to a small town in a remote part of Australia it will sure feel like 1969. No internet, no HD tv, No entertainment, No services, no restaurants,no hospitals, no doctors no worries .

[Dory the Doted One]

I've been skimming (in some cases) and reading (in other cases) this thread and I'm still unsure how I feel about it all.

I thought I was someone who didn't mind dogs off lead, if they were under effective control and not allowed to just approach any old dog without the permission of the other dogs owner.

Then Willow got aggressively charged on the weekend. She's young enough that this would have caused untold damage to her reactivity currently she doesn't care about other dogs on walks. In this instance, I opted to become a human shield and fortunately the dog slowed when it realised I was going to be a bit hard to get past and relaxed when it saw Willow was actually a puppy. (but still...this thing CHARGED us, with a focuss that scared the crap out of me and a growl that set the hair raising).

So I thought stuff this...get your effing dogs on a lead unless in and off lead area.

In my ire (and prompted by this thread), I checked out my local councils animal management plan.

We're screwed. All public areas, with a small number of exceptions and rules are off lead areas provided your dog is under effective control. Yeah. Prove that.

I think I will still give the Council a ring today and express my concerns. I'm tempted (but probably won't) to print out flyers that point out what effective control is, and what the consequences are if your dog RUSHES at or CHARGES another person or animal and then letter dropping them in my local area.

[Angeluca]

Except? Razor????? why except razor??? Why should he be any different to those who have proven their stills as a handler or trainer????

I haven't read even a quarter of these posts because really, it's going round it circles! But I am guessing the "except Razor" part was just sarcasm

if thats the case then

[tdierikx]

When I was a young'un, roaming dogs were looked upon as playmates for all of us kids in the area... what the hell changed over the years?

I lived in a lot of places (including Alice Springs and PNG) and neighbourhood dogs were just that - neighbourhood dogs... we ALL shared in the enjoyment of them. Everyone knew which dog belonged to which house, and we kids made sure said dogs got back home when we were finished playing and had to go in for our dinners... dogs were rarely seen as dangerous or narky - and all loved joining in the games of footy or cricket we kids were having.

When a neighbourhood dog had pups, all of us kids were there like shots to play with the pups - and invariably a few of us would end up with one for ourselves to take home (with parents' permission of course). Dogs in general were a HUGE part of every neighbourhood child's upbringing, and none of us had any fear of them at all.

Occasionally if we got bitten for some reason, we were asked what WE had done to deserve it - rather than branding the dog a vicious nasty thing that needed to be destroyed. We learned how to co-exist with all manner of dog types and breeds - and it was FUN!

And the biggest difference back then? If 2 dogs were "tussling" together, they weren't fighting... more likely mating... *grin*

Nowadays, dogs are becoming increasingly ostracised from everyday life - we can't take them anywhere to just hang out or play (like the beach or the playground). If we do take them out, there are so many restrictions on where and when and what we can do with them once we get there - it's all just too freaking hard now - so it's just easier to keep them at home and not let them interact with anyone or anything outside our own family. Is it any wonder then that some dogs, once free of their yards, are going to run amok?

And some of us have gone the complete opposite way as well. When we do take our dogs out, we don't want them interacting with others - human or otherwise. How can that be healthy for either the dog's state of mind, or their human's for that matter?

I want to go back to the "old days" - life with our dogs was MUCH better (and simpler) back then!

T.

If you renounce all possessions move to a small town in a remote part of Australia it will sure feel like 1969. No internet, no HD tv, No entertainment, No services, no restaurants,no hospitals, no doctors no worries .

Hahaha! Touche!

T.

[mita]

We tend to look at the past with rose-coloured glasses.

Life generally was much simpler....

Only a little bit of your post quoted, Mita, because the rose coloured glasses bit is spot on and the other? Well I'm glad you said "generally" because there were huge problems in society that were hidden and not discussed.

Definitely better times for dogs though.

DD, I'm going off topic (apologies). But wanted to say I thoroughly agree with you. Our rose-coloured glasses for the past make us believe because everything was simpler back then... & so was a better way to live. You're right, so many things were 'hidden' beneath the simplicity. Even just start with the position of women. And lots more, too.

[Alison03]

Any argument between me and Razor is actually none of your business, he has proved time and again he can give it out and also take it back.

Actually sweetie anything you say on a public forum is my business or anyone else's business. If you want to keep it private take it to a private message.

Well sweetheart as its a public forum I can pretty much say whatever I like, and as rule following is actively discouraged by several members I know they will appreciate my honesty and plain speaking, no holds barred. If someone is rude to me that opens the way for me to be rude to them right back, if you don't like it sweetie thats not my problem, it yours. Have a good day :)

Lucky for you I do follow the rules of this forum as what I would like to say to you would get me banned.

Ditto sweetie. Aren't rules a pain.