I'm Becoming Afraid To Walk My Dogs

[Alison03]

Are you subject to that BSL stuff that going on in Victoria, surprisingly my view on that is banning a breed will not make any difference to dog attacks, I think they are an easy target. The only interaction I've had with an Am staff type has been positive and he was off leash, I was terrified and he was a perfect gentleman. Also a friend of mine has one and it's very gentle with Bonny and her Maltese.

Oh and I apologize for being a pain in the bum, it all comes from fear and anger on my part.

No - I live in NSW... but let's not kid ourselves that BSL doesn't exist here. If it's large and bull breed, it's viewed with suspicion everywhere... thanks to the media telling us at every opportunity that all bull breed mixes ar Pitbull and want to eat your little dogs and children.

You are playing right into the hands of the people who want to nationalise BSL by your actions and reactions stemming from the bad experience you've had... and if that's OK by you, then I don't think we can come to any agreement in this discussion.

I love my dogs with every fibre of my being, and they reciprocate in myriad ways... and I will defend my right to love and be loved by my large dogs vociferously.

T.

Large bull breeds are not viewed with suspicion by me, a dog is a dog, it's the owner that makes them what they are, you walk your dogs on lead, you are not breaking the law.

I will not accept that I am playing into the hands of the BSL people, off leash dog walkers and owners who do not keep their dog properly secured are the ones who are giving dog owners in general a bad name. You are doing the right thing, but it's not you they will be looking at its the guy in the park with the uncontrolled off leash dog that bites a child, that's what I want to stop. Not the dog owner who abides by the law.

As I said to Razor not everyone owns a dog, some people don't like dogs and have a huge fear of them, they'd like to see them banned totally. I love my dog unreservedly too, I don't want to be legislated out of the local park.

We all love our dogs that's why we are here isn't it? People like me aren't the enemy.

[Rosetta]

Ever seen what small dogs can do in a fight, I have. One small Aussie terrier cross was attacked by two Tenterfield Terriers - they all were from the same home. The little Silky cross survived - just.

I don't care what breed of dog you have keep it on lead where it should be, have it off lead but under control in off lead areas and we will all get along just fine. Personally I don't care on the size, with a Whippet a biting JR can cause a lot of damage as can a Kelpie or bigger.

Just this week down here a Cavalier was killed by a dog at our off lead beach. The other dog apparently saw the small dog from a few hundred metres away and ran at him at speed with the owner running and calling frantically. The attacking dog paid no heed. Two young children and their mum saw their dog mauled and that badly injured before them he died. The owner of the attacking dog said - oh he has never done that before. Now I believe that is crap either they are lying or have no bloody idea what their dog is telling them. That dog was not under effictive control and should never have been off a lead. This really strikes a cord with me as I occassionally take my Whippets to this beach, it could have been them.

And there you have it ....poor litttle dog That family will never get over that trauma. Did someone say it is "crazy" to carry a stick? Crazy not to if you have been through that type of trauma. People should follow the law - but you have to expect that they won't and protect your little dogs as much as you can - yes even carrying a stick! I don't go to off lead anywhere - not worth the risk.

[Alison03]

... like some others here I am saddened that we live in such a society that has become increasingly litigious.

Hell, my 6 year old daughter is not allowed to do cartwheels or handstands in the school playground incase she hurts herself and someone gets sued!!! It is always the good and responsible majority that pay for the mistakes of the minority.

I think the major issue is socialisation - or lack there of as T mentioned. I might be naive here but I believe that if more people concentrated on early and thorough socialisation then I don't think there would be so many frightened people and dogs. Fear breeds more fear and this worrying for all dog owners.

I am actually empathetic to Trudy08's plight. She has been through some horrible stuff, but, I think this thread has become so fear based that continual posts on this merry-go-round are serving no purpose except to alienate certain individuals. Respect is a two way street.

I have no problem with big boofy dogs being walked off-lead around the streets by responsible owners, it is the ones that never get walked or socialised (big and small) that I would worry about - these are the ones that cause problems when they escape.

Thanks for actually believing me Yonjuro, some on this forum don't.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the off leash in on leash area issue. As you say it's the off leash unsocialized dogs that are the problem but any dog attack incident no matter how isolated is another nail in the coffin of dog owners freedom.

Socialization is a great idea as is responsible dog ownership and obeying the leash laws.

[RazorBlade]

I didn't actually call You anything, i associated those names to a type of population, If you too can see how you can be put in that same basket, then that is your issue.

i said 'can be' not 'are'

idiotic behavior isn't a direct association 'i said what u do is idiotic not you are'

and 'some Anus' and 'Bast*rd* is a broad statement in reference to a group of people who cause life to hard on others without remorse. If you see your self in these categories maybe you should look at you persona.

Come on now, no need to back away from it now.

Take my comments in their most literal terms, however I am willing to state I do find you an arrogant person, that can be directly associated with the stereotypes myself and others have mention for your sheer disregard for the law and the community you live in. One of those other anuses I have state will see you and your disregard to the law and ask themselves why can't they do the same. It is not up to your judgement when and where the law should be obeyed or enforced nor to give yourself or anybody else the privileged that the law does not apply to you. It does not matter You think your dog is good. It does not matter if your dog IS good.

It does not even directly have to do with the behavior you or your dog has in public, What if a bunch of self righteous complainers see you and your dog and report you repeatedly to the council who then impose the law of no dogs in business districts causing your cafe to enforce a regulation of no dogs with a distance of a human consumption premises. And it was all done cause they got a few sly pics of your dog loose and the council had enough of the complaints which would have been unwarranted if you had just clipped a loose lead to his collar.??

You seriously think the haters care if your dog has a lead or doesn't have a lead on as it sits under the table at your local cafe? Who is more of a menace, my dog who sleeps on my foot as I eat my omelet or the two white fluffies on lead, off their heads, barking and trying to tip over the table they are tied to? (True story)

Yes Razor dog haters do care if your dog is leashed especially in a cafe, as well as the insurance company of the cafe owner if anything goes wrong. Some people do not like dogs of any type and do not like them being in the front of cafes. Not everyone owns a dog and there are people who would like all dog laws to be very tight indeed. In that cafe you are one incident away from helping them ban all dogs from cafe fronts. If one of those fluffy dogs bites your dog and he reacts guess who will be blamed, the person with the unleashed dog. It's common sense really.

In all your waffling on you seem to have forgotten to answer the question.

Who is more of a menace, my dog who sleeps on my foot as I eat my omelet or the two white fluffies on lead, off their heads, barking and trying to tip over the table they are tied to?

[RazorBlade]

Trudy08 - I think we ALL know exactly where YOU stand on the issue... 160-odd postings saying pretty much EXACTLY the same thing, and berating anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint, tends to make YOU look a bit overzealous (to say the least)...

Yes - you have had some traumatic incidents occur - no-one is denying that... but I think you may need to step back a little and look at the issue from other people's side of the "argument". Not every off leash dog is going to turn rampaging killer as soon as they see you and your little dog... and if that IS your experience, you may need to start looking into WHY you and your dog seem to attract much more negative dog attention than the law of averages suggests you should.

Just sayin'...

T.

Ok I'll make a deal with you I won't repeat myself as you all know where I stand.

Lets not forget I've been called crazy and it's even been alluded too that I've made everything up.

I had a very traumatic event and because I live in a semi rural community there seems to be quite a few loose dogs.

I'm not sure why we attract rushers, my dog is very well behaved on leash, perhaps that makes her weak and a target, can't really do much about that can I?

Off leash she mixes very well with friends dogs and at the kennels, where she's described as easy going but doesn't submit readily to other dogs but is not aggressive.

I readily admit I die a thousand deaths when I see an off leash dog and imagine all kinds of horrors that never happen.

Being made to feel vulnerable makes me cranky, you may have noticed that bit.

For the third time, It was me who made the crazy comment and it was in regard to feeling like you needed a weapon to walk your dogs safely, it was widely directed, not solely at you and I said THE ACTION of carrying this out stank of craziness. It seems to suit you to adopt the tag like a pouting child though, so carry on.

I don't think anyone alluded you might have invented anything either.

For goodness sake I don't care who called me crazy and who didn't. It was Razor who alluded to me having "contributory factors" and that all the dog incidences I report may be because of those factors. That's not a direct quote either, I can't be bothered looking for it.

Now lets not get caught up in semantics of who said what to whom.

I carry citronella spray only, which is harmless to dogs, not harmless because I say so, harmless because that is whats written on the can. I used to carry an umbrella but I got sick of having my hands full. I'm not looking to hurt anyone's dog despite the fact me and my dog were attacked. For the 100th time ( that may not be the true figure but I'm confident the post counters will be able to tell me what number it is ) I just want a relaxing walk with my dog without being harassed by off leash dogs of any type. Stop taking what I say personally it isn't aimed at you.

Like it or not your actions and your reactions directly contribute to your experiences and the actions/reactions of your dog.

[Alison03]

I don't know if anyone is aware but if you put "dog attacks or leash laws " in google search, our forum and this particular topic comes up, so what we are saying isn't amongst us few people. Also other forums come up with people just like us having the same argument that goes around and around. This argument is world wide. Responsible dog ownership is not going to be a personal decision in the future and whether to abide by the leash laws or not won't be a choice either. There are too many horrific dog attacks going on, the general public will not and are not ignoring that.

[Alison03]

Trudy08 - I think we ALL know exactly where YOU stand on the issue... 160-odd postings saying pretty much EXACTLY the same thing, and berating anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint, tends to make YOU look a bit overzealous (to say the least)...

Yes - you have had some traumatic incidents occur - no-one is denying that... but I think you may need to step back a little and look at the issue from other people's side of the "argument". Not every off leash dog is going to turn rampaging killer as soon as they see you and your little dog... and if that IS your experience, you may need to start looking into WHY you and your dog seem to attract much more negative dog attention than the law of averages suggests you should.

Just sayin'...

T.

Ok I'll make a deal with you I won't repeat myself as you all know where I stand.

Lets not forget I've been called crazy and it's even been alluded too that I've made everything up.

I had a very traumatic event and because I live in a semi rural community there seems to be quite a few loose dogs.

I'm not sure why we attract rushers, my dog is very well behaved on leash, perhaps that makes her weak and a target, can't really do much about that can I?

Off leash she mixes very well with friends dogs and at the kennels, where she's described as easy going but doesn't submit readily to other dogs but is not aggressive.

I readily admit I die a thousand deaths when I see an off leash dog and imagine all kinds of horrors that never happen.

Being made to feel vulnerable makes me cranky, you may have noticed that bit.

For the third time, It was me who made the crazy comment and it was in regard to feeling like you needed a weapon to walk your dogs safely, it was widely directed, not solely at you and I said THE ACTION of carrying this out stank of craziness. It seems to suit you to adopt the tag like a pouting child though, so carry on.

I don't think anyone alluded you might have invented anything either.

For goodness sake I don't care who called me crazy and who didn't. It was Razor who alluded to me having "contributory factors" and that all the dog incidences I report may be because of those factors. That's not a direct quote either, I can't be bothered looking for it.

Now lets not get caught up in semantics of who said what to whom.

I carry citronella spray only, which is harmless to dogs, not harmless because I say so, harmless because that is whats written on the can. I used to carry an umbrella but I got sick of having my hands full. I'm not looking to hurt anyone's dog despite the fact me and my dog were attacked. For the 100th time ( that may not be the true figure but I'm confident the post counters will be able to tell me what number it is ) I just want a relaxing walk with my dog without being harassed by off leash dogs of any type. Stop taking what I say personally it isn't aimed at you.

Like it or not your actions and your reactions directly contribute to your experiences and the actions/reactions of your dog.

My dog despite her owner, is bomb proof, she does not react badly, strangely enough she trusts me to protect her when she's on leash, perhaps because I saved her life once by risking my own, I must be doing something right. When she's off leash on an off leash beach, she stays close to me unless I tell her "free" and she has excellent recall, not by me screaming her name but by me whistling, she even responds to different whistle tones, I have one for stop. She has never been aggressive to another dog or a human. She lies under the table at my local cafe with her head on her paws, (I do not allow her to put her head on my foot as in dog behavior that implies ownership, she knows I own her and not the other way around)while I drink my latte, she has never reacted to any dogs going off their nut at the next table, she knows that's not allowed. I still wouldn't walk her off leash in an on leash area because I have consideration for others and I abide by the leash laws. I have only owned and trained one dog in my life, she is my first. I have friends whose dogs are highly reactive, who can't be walked passed another dog. I've taken them for half an hour and got them to walk with me, on leash of course without reacting to other dogs. I don't hurt them, I just let them know I'm in charge. I may be comparatively new to the dog world but I'm not unskilled in dog handling. So please don't try to teach your G'ma how to suck eggs. You are an embryo compared to me.

[Alison03]

I didn't actually call You anything, i associated those names to a type of population, If you too can see how you can be put in that same basket, then that is your issue.

i said 'can be' not 'are'

idiotic behavior isn't a direct association 'i said what u do is idiotic not you are'

and 'some Anus' and 'Bast*rd* is a broad statement in reference to a group of people who cause life to hard on others without remorse. If you see your self in these categories maybe you should look at you persona.

Come on now, no need to back away from it now.

Take my comments in their most literal terms, however I am willing to state I do find you an arrogant person, that can be directly associated with the stereotypes myself and others have mention for your sheer disregard for the law and the community you live in. One of those other anuses I have state will see you and your disregard to the law and ask themselves why can't they do the same. It is not up to your judgement when and where the law should be obeyed or enforced nor to give yourself or anybody else the privileged that the law does not apply to you. It does not matter You think your dog is good. It does not matter if your dog IS good.

It does not even directly have to do with the behavior you or your dog has in public, What if a bunch of self righteous complainers see you and your dog and report you repeatedly to the council who then impose the law of no dogs in business districts causing your cafe to enforce a regulation of no dogs with a distance of a human consumption premises. And it was all done cause they got a few sly pics of your dog loose and the council had enough of the complaints which would have been unwarranted if you had just clipped a loose lead to his collar.??

You seriously think the haters care if your dog has a lead or doesn't have a lead on as it sits under the table at your local cafe? Who is more of a menace, my dog who sleeps on my foot as I eat my omelet or the two white fluffies on lead, off their heads, barking and trying to tip over the table they are tied to? (True story)

Yes Razor dog haters do care if your dog is leashed especially in a cafe, as well as the insurance company of the cafe owner if anything goes wrong. Some people do not like dogs of any type and do not like them being in the front of cafes. Not everyone owns a dog and there are people who would like all dog laws to be very tight indeed. In that cafe you are one incident away from helping them ban all dogs from cafe fronts. If one of those fluffy dogs bites your dog and he reacts guess who will be blamed, the person with the unleashed dog. It's common sense really.

In all your waffling on you seem to have forgotten to answer the question.

Who is more of a menace, my dog who sleeps on my foot as I eat my omelet or the two white fluffies on lead, off their heads, barking and trying to tip over the table they are tied to?

In the eyes of the insurance company, the local council and the police your dog would be the menace, simply because YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW BY NOT HAVING HIM ON A LEASH. All your talk of who barked first would just be so much coffee house crap to the authorities. I also can't stand those dogs that carry on like nutters, the owners shouldn't have them at a cafe, those types will also give dogs a bad reputation. Please don't be rude to me, trust me I'm going out of my way to not be rude to you.

[Remarkabull]

I didn't actually call You anything, i associated those names to a type of population, If you too can see how you can be put in that same basket, then that is your issue.

i said 'can be' not 'are'

idiotic behavior isn't a direct association 'i said what u do is idiotic not you are'

and 'some Anus' and 'Bast*rd* is a broad statement in reference to a group of people who cause life to hard on others without remorse. If you see your self in these categories maybe you should look at you persona.

Come on now, no need to back away from it now.

Take my comments in their most literal terms, however I am willing to state I do find you an arrogant person, that can be directly associated with the stereotypes myself and others have mention for your sheer disregard for the law and the community you live in. One of those other anuses I have state will see you and your disregard to the law and ask themselves why can't they do the same. It is not up to your judgement when and where the law should be obeyed or enforced nor to give yourself or anybody else the privileged that the law does not apply to you. It does not matter You think your dog is good. It does not matter if your dog IS good.

It does not even directly have to do with the behavior you or your dog has in public, What if a bunch of self righteous complainers see you and your dog and report you repeatedly to the council who then impose the law of no dogs in business districts causing your cafe to enforce a regulation of no dogs with a distance of a human consumption premises. And it was all done cause they got a few sly pics of your dog loose and the council had enough of the complaints which would have been unwarranted if you had just clipped a loose lead to his collar.??

You seriously think the haters care if your dog has a lead or doesn't have a lead on as it sits under the table at your local cafe? Who is more of a menace, my dog who sleeps on my foot as I eat my omelet or the two white fluffies on lead, off their heads, barking and trying to tip over the table they are tied to? (True story)

Yes Razor dog haters do care if your dog is leashed especially in a cafe, as well as the insurance company of the cafe owner if anything goes wrong. Some people do not like dogs of any type and do not like them being in the front of cafes. Not everyone owns a dog and there are people who would like all dog laws to be very tight indeed. In that cafe you are one incident away from helping them ban all dogs from cafe fronts. If one of those fluffy dogs bites your dog and he reacts guess who will be blamed, the person with the unleashed dog. It's common sense really.

In all your waffling on you seem to have forgotten to answer the question.

Who is more of a menace, my dog who sleeps on my foot as I eat my omelet or the two white fluffies on lead, off their heads, barking and trying to tip over the table they are tied to?

When are you going to understand, its not about menacing, out of control dogs! The law is the law and when people continuously disregard that law then they will bring in even more. It doesn't matter how amazing your particular dog is Razor, the point is there are people out there who have fears (warranted and not, it doesn't matter), people who are petrified of dogs, people who just want to go for a walk and. Not have to worry every time they see an off lead dog and wonder if it is going to approach or not. It's about common decency and empathy for others. I LOVE my dogs. I also think they're special and I can't for the life of me understand how others don't feel the same, but not everyone does of course so, for the comfort of others I don't take them everywhere and I keep them on a lead so they don't cause anyone concern.

Just to answer your above question, both of you are being inconsiderate and rude. If I owned the cafe I'd ask the lady to remove her yappy, out of control dogs and I'd also ask you to put your dog on a lead.

[Alison03]

I didn't actually call You anything, i associated those names to a type of population, If you too can see how you can be put in that same basket, then that is your issue.

i said 'can be' not 'are'

idiotic behavior isn't a direct association 'i said what u do is idiotic not you are'

and 'some Anus' and 'Bast*rd* is a broad statement in reference to a group of people who cause life to hard on others without remorse. If you see your self in these categories maybe you should look at you persona.

Come on now, no need to back away from it now.

Take my comments in their most literal terms, however I am willing to state I do find you an arrogant person, that can be directly associated with the stereotypes myself and others have mention for your sheer disregard for the law and the community you live in. One of those other anuses I have state will see you and your disregard to the law and ask themselves why can't they do the same. It is not up to your judgement when and where the law should be obeyed or enforced nor to give yourself or anybody else the privileged that the law does not apply to you. It does not matter You think your dog is good. It does not matter if your dog IS good.

It does not even directly have to do with the behavior you or your dog has in public, What if a bunch of self righteous complainers see you and your dog and report you repeatedly to the council who then impose the law of no dogs in business districts causing your cafe to enforce a regulation of no dogs with a distance of a human consumption premises. And it was all done cause they got a few sly pics of your dog loose and the council had enough of the complaints which would have been unwarranted if you had just clipped a loose lead to his collar.??

You seriously think the haters care if your dog has a lead or doesn't have a lead on as it sits under the table at your local cafe? Who is more of a menace, my dog who sleeps on my foot as I eat my omelet or the two white fluffies on lead, off their heads, barking and trying to tip over the table they are tied to? (True story)

Yes Razor dog haters do care if your dog is leashed especially in a cafe, as well as the insurance company of the cafe owner if anything goes wrong. Some people do not like dogs of any type and do not like them being in the front of cafes. Not everyone owns a dog and there are people who would like all dog laws to be very tight indeed. In that cafe you are one incident away from helping them ban all dogs from cafe fronts. If one of those fluffy dogs bites your dog and he reacts guess who will be blamed, the person with the unleashed dog. It's common sense really.

In all your waffling on you seem to have forgotten to answer the question.

Who is more of a menace, my dog who sleeps on my foot as I eat my omelet or the two white fluffies on lead, off their heads, barking and trying to tip over the table they are tied to?

When are you going to understand, its not about menacing, out of control dogs! The law is the law and when people continuously disregard that law then they will bring in even more. It doesn't matter how amazing your particular dog is Razor, the point is there are people out there who have fears (warranted and not, it doesn't matter), people who are petrified of dogs, people who just want to go for a walk and. Not have to worry every time they see an off lead dog and wonder if it is going to approach or not. It's about common decency and empathy for others. I LOVE my dogs. I also think they're special and I can't for the life of me understand how others don't feel the same, but not everyone does of course so, for the comfort of others I don't take them everywhere and I keep them on a lead so they don't cause anyone concern.

Just to answer your above question, both of you are being inconsiderate and rude. If I owned the cafe I'd ask the lady to remove her yappy, out of control dogs and I'd also ask you to put your dog on a lead.

Thank you Remarkabull, common sense is a wonderful thing to hear. :)

I think Razor is on here to argue, I'm not sure he cares about what anyone is trying to say, he's having fun being provoking.

[Angeluca]

In all your waffling on you seem to have forgotten to answer the question.

And not once have you stated why you think your above the law even tho it has been repeated asked

[Staffyluv]

I don't know if anyone is aware but if you put "dog attacks or leash laws " in google search, our forum and this particular topic comes up, so what we are saying isn't amongst us few people. Also other forums come up with people just like us having the same argument that goes around and around. This argument is world wide. Responsible dog ownership is not going to be a personal decision in the future and whether to abide by the leash laws or not won't be a choice either. There are too many horrific dog attacks going on, the general public will not and are not ignoring that.

There is only one thread on this forum that isn't available to the public..

Everything else can be read by anyone, at any time.

What gave you the impression that this was a secret forum?

Edited September 16, 2013 by Staffyluv

[JulesP]

Trudy08 - I think we ALL know exactly where YOU stand on the issue... 160-odd postings saying pretty much EXACTLY the same thing, and berating anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint, tends to make YOU look a bit overzealous (to say the least)...

Yes - you have had some traumatic incidents occur - no-one is denying that... but I think you may need to step back a little and look at the issue from other people's side of the "argument". Not every off leash dog is going to turn rampaging killer as soon as they see you and your little dog... and if that IS your experience, you may need to start looking into WHY you and your dog seem to attract much more negative dog attention than the law of averages suggests you should.

Just sayin'...

T.

Ok I'll make a deal with you I won't repeat myself as you all know where I stand.

Lets not forget I've been called crazy and it's even been alluded too that I've made everything up.

I had a very traumatic event and because I live in a semi rural community there seems to be quite a few loose dogs.

I'm not sure why we attract rushers, my dog is very well behaved on leash, perhaps that makes her weak and a target, can't really do much about that can I?

Off leash she mixes very well with friends dogs and at the kennels, where she's described as easy going but doesn't submit readily to other dogs but is not aggressive.

I readily admit I die a thousand deaths when I see an off leash dog and imagine all kinds of horrors that never happen.

Being made to feel vulnerable makes me cranky, you may have noticed that bit.

For the third time, It was me who made the crazy comment and it was in regard to feeling like you needed a weapon to walk your dogs safely, it was widely directed, not solely at you and I said THE ACTION of carrying this out stank of craziness. It seems to suit you to adopt the tag like a pouting child though, so carry on.

I don't think anyone alluded you might have invented anything either.

For goodness sake I don't care who called me crazy and who didn't. It was Razor who alluded to me having "contributory factors" and that all the dog incidences I report may be because of those factors. That's not a direct quote either, I can't be bothered looking for it.

Now lets not get caught up in semantics of who said what to whom.

I carry citronella spray only, which is harmless to dogs, not harmless because I say so, harmless because that is whats written on the can. I used to carry an umbrella but I got sick of having my hands full. I'm not looking to hurt anyone's dog despite the fact me and my dog were attacked. For the 100th time ( that may not be the true figure but I'm confident the post counters will be able to tell me what number it is ) I just want a relaxing walk with my dog without being harassed by off leash dogs of any type. Stop taking what I say personally it isn't aimed at you.

Like it or not your actions and your reactions directly contribute to your experiences and the actions/reactions of your dog.

My dog despite her owner, is bomb proof, she does not react badly, strangely enough she trusts me to protect her when she's on leash, perhaps because I saved her life once by risking my own, I must be doing something right. When she's off leash on an off leash beach, she stays close to me unless I tell her "free" and she has excellent recall, not by me screaming her name but by me whistling, she even responds to different whistle tones, I have one for stop. She has never been aggressive to another dog or a human. She lies under the table at my local cafe with her head on her paws, (I do not allow her to put her head on my foot as in dog behavior that implies ownership, she knows I own her and not the other way around)while I drink my latte, she has never reacted to any dogs going off their nut at the next table, she knows that's not allowed. I still wouldn't walk her off leash in an on leash area because I have consideration for others and I abide by the leash laws. I have only owned and trained one dog in my life, she is my first. I have friends whose dogs are highly reactive, who can't be walked passed another dog. I've taken them for half an hour and got them to walk with me, on leash of course without reacting to other dogs. I don't hurt them, I just let them know I'm in charge. I may be comparatively new to the dog world but I'm not unskilled in dog handling. So please don't try to teach your G'ma how to suck eggs. You are an embryo compared to me.

Wow what a rude post! You have no idea of Razorblade's dog handling skills.

[Alison03]

I don't know if anyone is aware but if you put "dog attacks or leash laws " in google search, our forum and this particular topic comes up, so what we are saying isn't amongst us few people. Also other forums come up with people just like us having the same argument that goes around and around. This argument is world wide. Responsible dog ownership is not going to be a personal decision in the future and whether to abide by the leash laws or not won't be a choice either. There are too many horrific dog attacks going on, the general public will not and are not ignoring that.

There is only one thread on this forum that isn't available to the public..

Everything else can be read by anyone, at any time.

What gave you the impression that this was a secret forum?

I knew it wasn't as I found it on google originally, I was wondering if everyone else knew it wasn't private and that the thread "I'm becoming afraid to walk my dogs" actually comes up on google and not just Aussie Pure Bred Forums. Someone I don't remember who and it doesn't matter who it was, told me that whatever we said on here only reaches the small amount of forum members, I was just pointing out thats not actually true.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Trudy08

[RazorBlade]

In all your waffling on you seem to have forgotten to answer the question.

And not once have you stated why you think your above the law even tho it has been repeated asked

Listen, I've repeatedly answered what my motivations are and the way I go about doing the things I do in an effort to show that there is another side to the coin. Not everything is black and white.

To the sanctimonious, holier that thou attitude, OMG it's a by-law brigade. Unless you have never in your life broken/ignore a rule, give up on the lecturing.

[Alison03]

Trudy08 - I think we ALL know exactly where YOU stand on the issue... 160-odd postings saying pretty much EXACTLY the same thing, and berating anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint, tends to make YOU look a bit overzealous (to say the least)...

Yes - you have had some traumatic incidents occur - no-one is denying that... but I think you may need to step back a little and look at the issue from other people's side of the "argument". Not every off leash dog is going to turn rampaging killer as soon as they see you and your little dog... and if that IS your experience, you may need to start looking into WHY you and your dog seem to attract much more negative dog attention than the law of averages suggests you should.

Just sayin'...

T.

Ok I'll make a deal with you I won't repeat myself as you all know where I stand.

Lets not forget I've been called crazy and it's even been alluded too that I've made everything up.

I had a very traumatic event and because I live in a semi rural community there seems to be quite a few loose dogs.

I'm not sure why we attract rushers, my dog is very well behaved on leash, perhaps that makes her weak and a target, can't really do much about that can I?

Off leash she mixes very well with friends dogs and at the kennels, where she's described as easy going but doesn't submit readily to other dogs but is not aggressive.

I readily admit I die a thousand deaths when I see an off leash dog and imagine all kinds of horrors that never happen.

Being made to feel vulnerable makes me cranky, you may have noticed that bit.

For the third time, It was me who made the crazy comment and it was in regard to feeling like you needed a weapon to walk your dogs safely, it was widely directed, not solely at you and I said THE ACTION of carrying this out stank of craziness. It seems to suit you to adopt the tag like a pouting child though, so carry on.

I don't think anyone alluded you might have invented anything either.

For goodness sake I don't care who called me crazy and who didn't. It was Razor who alluded to me having "contributory factors" and that all the dog incidences I report may be because of those factors. That's not a direct quote either, I can't be bothered looking for it.

Now lets not get caught up in semantics of who said what to whom.

I carry citronella spray only, which is harmless to dogs, not harmless because I say so, harmless because that is whats written on the can. I used to carry an umbrella but I got sick of having my hands full. I'm not looking to hurt anyone's dog despite the fact me and my dog were attacked. For the 100th time ( that may not be the true figure but I'm confident the post counters will be able to tell me what number it is ) I just want a relaxing walk with my dog without being harassed by off leash dogs of any type. Stop taking what I say personally it isn't aimed at you.

Like it or not your actions and your reactions directly contribute to your experiences and the actions/reactions of your dog.

My dog despite her owner, is bomb proof, she does not react badly, strangely enough she trusts me to protect her when she's on leash, perhaps because I saved her life once by risking my own, I must be doing something right. When she's off leash on an off leash beach, she stays close to me unless I tell her "free" and she has excellent recall, not by me screaming her name but by me whistling, she even responds to different whistle tones, I have one for stop. She has never been aggressive to another dog or a human. She lies under the table at my local cafe with her head on her paws, (I do not allow her to put her head on my foot as in dog behavior that implies ownership, she knows I own her and not the other way around)while I drink my latte, she has never reacted to any dogs going off their nut at the next table, she knows that's not allowed. I still wouldn't walk her off leash in an on leash area because I have consideration for others and I abide by the leash laws. I have only owned and trained one dog in my life, she is my first. I have friends whose dogs are highly reactive, who can't be walked passed another dog. I've taken them for half an hour and got them to walk with me, on leash of course without reacting to other dogs. I don't hurt them, I just let them know I'm in charge. I may be comparatively new to the dog world but I'm not unskilled in dog handling. So please don't try to teach your G'ma how to suck eggs. You are an embryo compared to me.

Wow what a rude post! You have no idea of Razorblade's dog handling skills.

Well I would imagine that if he walks around with his dog off leash in public areas, that his dog handling skills are excellent and probably unusually so, as many dog owners on leash and off leash seem to struggle with their dogs constantly, something I see nearly daily, Razor must have put time and effort (as I have with my dog) into training Toby and good on him. I am not being sarcastic either I really mean that.

However he inferred that my dog handling skills were wanting in some way because of my fear of off leash dogs, that I must be in turn infecting my dog's behaviour, I took exception to that as I have previously told him my dog is bomb proof, so I can't be affecting her at all. I go to lengths to avoid off lead dogs so she won't feel my fear. I resented his inference that any incidents that occur with dogs rushing us is somehow brought on by myself and not actually by the dog that rushes me.

As to being rude to Razor. the gloves were taken off in the rudeness sector by Razor himself, in several very rude posts to me, I don't care if you think his rudeness was warranted towards me or not. Any argument between me and Razor is actually none of your business, he has proved time and again he can give it out and also take it back.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Trudy08

[Rocketeer]

In all your waffling on you seem to have forgotten to answer the question.

And not once have you stated why you think your above the law even tho it has been repeated asked

Listen, I've repeatedly answered what my motivations are and the way I go about doing the things I do in an effort to show that there is another side to the coin. Not everything is black and white.

To the sanctimonious, holier that thou attitude, OMG it's a by-law brigade. Unless you have never in your life broken/ignore a rule, give up on the lecturing.

Okay I change my view point now. I believe in stronger enforcement or leash laws, registration, dog containment on all dog owners (except for Razorblade).

Case closed.

[JulesP]

Any argument between me and Razor is actually none of your business, he has proved time and again he can give it out and also take it back.

Actually sweetie anything you say on a public forum is my business or anyone else's business. If you want to keep it private take it to a private message.

[Alison03]

In all your waffling on you seem to have forgotten to answer the question.

And not once have you stated why you think your above the law even tho it has been repeated asked

Listen, I've repeatedly answered what my motivations are and the way I go about doing the things I do in an effort to show that there is another side to the coin. Not everything is black and white.

To the sanctimonious, holier that thou attitude, OMG it's a by-law brigade. Unless you have never in your life broken/ignore a rule, give up on the lecturing.

Okay I change my view point now. I believe in stronger enforcement or leash laws, registration, dog containment on all dog owners (except for Razorblade).

Case closed.

If only it worked liked that, sadly for Razor it doesn't, whatever country you live in, you are subject to the laws of that land. You can call them whatever you like the laws won't go away. Ignoring the leash laws isn't like ignoring a rule such as dropping litter, its about protecting public safety, which is taken quite seriously, as it should be.

[Rocketeer]

Jesus, I didn't say I didn't think it was not serious to break laws - read my posts... If you want to pick my posts to pieces read the whole thing in the context it is meant - don't pick out bits to suit your agenda (whatever it is)..

You know if you read slowly and concisely you will get the gist of most of my posts.

I said, there are loads of people out there that don't care about the law or what you want or need..

Next time I see a perfectly controlled dog off lead, I will congratulate the owner on such a wonderfully trained animal - BECAUSE it doesn't bother me that the well behaved/trained/controlled animal is off lead..

If it bothers you - go dob it in..

You can't make people care about the law - all you can do is dob them in.. If you want to spend your life dobbing every single off lead dog owner into the local council, then go for it.. I for one, have much better things to do with my life than dob every dog owner in that looks like it has a dog walking off lead..

You obviously feel my last post was aimed at you, it was aimed at everyone who feels its ok for off leash dogs to be walked in on lead areas, if you fit into that description then I guess you are part of my target. I have not picked apart your posts, despite the fact you seem to have picked apart mine earlier on in his thread, and called me contradictory, which is a lot nicer than when someone on this forum called me crazy, but to be honest none of those labels really bothers me.

What I'm attempting to point out is that the very people you support, could be the very people who help stricter dog laws be put in to place, its very simple for you to be part of those restrictive laws all you have to do is NOTHING. Let all the perfect off leash dogs sail passed you and say nothing, or you could go one step worse and congratulate the owners but if you really want to help society, you could compliment the owner and say "You do realise this is an on leash area don't you, I wouldn't want you to be fined". By doing nothing you are enabling the off leashers to take away our (and your ) freedom to walk our dogs. It will happen, google dog attacks and new dog laws, I am not making this all up, it will affect us all. Its not to late if everyone abides by the current law and makes sure our dogs are kept secure and on leashes where required and that stops most of the dog attacks it can only help us stay with the law we have. I'm not attacking you I just think there may be a downside to walking off leash dogs that may not have occurred to you.

I know this is a small forum and does not reach a lot of people but its been worked out if you tell one person, and that one person tells another the word will spread like wild fire. In political circles its accepted that if one person writes a letter or an email to an MP on a subject that means 500 people feel the same way, which in their eyes is 500 votes. Taking that a step further if a group get together to try to stop dog attacks and get new laws made that make parks no dog allowed, we are all sunk. Off lead dogs don't just piss off other people with dogs, its not just dog walkers that get attacked.

If you see an off leash walker, ringing the police won't help or the council, they want a name and address, just reminding nicely that this is an on lead area puts the thought in their heads that people are watching and caring what they do, they may tell you to F off but they still heard you, words that are said or written that you know apply to you are never forgotten, human beings are very susceptible to suggestion. All the off leash walkers I've encountered I've said very nicely (apart from the ones with scary dogs, I haven't been too nice then) "Are you aware this is an off leash area" and I haven't seen them since. They don't know who I am, perhaps I work for the local council, what do you think? You can't make people care about the law but they do care about being fined.

Steph don't take this personally its not meant that way.

You quoted me - if you were not responding to me, then don't quote me..

Edited to add - in my opinion, there isn't a downside to walking a well trained/behaved dog off lead. I wouldn't do it but I have seen a few and to be honest, they are a non issue.

You don't have to lecture me on the problems of outdated dog laws - I have been a dog owner and a member of this forum long enough to know what is and isn't OK..

So you spend your spare time making sure all the off lead dog walkers in your area are aware it is an on lead area or they can be fined - good for you..

I have much better things to do with my time - like enjoy my walk with my dog, instead of worrying about something that is of no concern to me (remember I am talking about well behaved/trained dogs who don't run off to meet me and my dog - they simply go about their walk like I do)..

If the dog was off lead, menacing and appearing dangerous - it probably wouldn't have an owner with it in my neck of the woods. So in this case, I would put a call in to our local ranger and let them know there is an off lead dog at such and such location. Now that owner should be fined.. Not the one, causing nobody any harm, minding his own business..

No wonder we can't take our dogs anywhere anymore..

If you have aren't too concerned for you dog. I'm happy for you. But some other people on the forum are more vulnerable and have more fragile dogs due to age, illness, size etc. SO I do see why they would be concerned. I've had a dog that was very capable of defending herself. She could easily kill smaller dogs if she wanted to. But breaking up a fight is just an inconvenience on my walk. Nobody wants to deal with this stuff every time they duck out for a walk.

I just think we shouldn't have to go out of our way to make things more convenient for people who want their dogs to be "free range". Why some people believe they deserve special rights? I don't know. I'd like to see what happens if there are NO leash laws- may the best dog win... losers can R.I.P.

Where the hell did I say I am not concerned for my dog??

Where huh?

I am very concerned for the well being of mine and every other dog/animal.. I have on more than a few occasions put myself in front of my dogs and between a charging dog and my dogs. I would do it again in an instant - I am not afraid of a charging dog. My experience tells me that in my town, where I walk my dogs, that the off lead dogs that come running at us are invariably tame and a growl and get lost is enough to get rid of most of them.

Just a couple of weeks ago, I lifted a GSD off my staffy cross and tossed her.. It isn't the first dog dispute I have broken up and I dare say (because I own a dog) it won't be the last one.. My staffy cross is extremely submissive - he tried to out run her but she caught him and he just curled into a ball..

My last dog had mast cell cancer for over 6 years, we lost him in October 2011 after a good long fight with chemo, holistic therapy and finally just palliative care... So much for me being not concerned about my dogs.

Also where did I say that I wanted leash free laws - I have never said that either.. I agree that people are flouting the law by not leashing their dogs.

No one wants that but you can't make people do something they are not going to do - law or not... All you can do is dob them in..

I am not going to repeat any more of what I have said a dozen times already.

You are going to choose to pick out of my posts what suits you and your argument..

I've highlighted your post above. If you are not concerned about dogs running up to you (and your dog) thats great . Some people are and I can't blame them because I don't know what their circumstances are. And not everyone lives in your town.

Also. I'm not congratulating anyone who puts others at risk. When some one runs a red light I'm not congratulating them for being a 'good driver' and getting to the other side safely.

And even though we can't make people follow the law. I'm not going to support that behaviour or congratulate anyone for breaking the law 'safely'.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Rocketeer