I'm Becoming Afraid To Walk My Dogs

[Rocketeer]

I'm more of the opinion that the more nicely behaved off lead dogs the average Joe sees/meets, the better...

Seriously though, if you have a highly reactive dog, is it fair on them (or you for that matter) to be taking them to areas that may be crowded with people or other dogs? Wouldn't that be more likely to heighten their tension rather than being an enjoyable stroll for you both?

Also - if YOU are on edge whenever you see an offlead dog - don't you think that your own dog will be picking up on that tension and thusly be transmitting their own? Surely the number of offlead and aggressive dogs out and about isn't the epidemic that some would have us believe?

I've been living in this area since 1999 - and have only been rushed at by unfriendly loose dogs twice when out walking my own. Plenty of smaller territorial dogs making noise from their front yards, but nothing that has been seriously "menacing" or of any concern to me or my dogs. I live in an area where we have a very high number of people living on government assistance, and have all manner of the staffy or mastiff crosses as pets - but the unfriendly ones have definitely been a very small minority from my experience.

T.

Maybe I'll grab a group of "nicely behaved off lead dogs" and release them into the neighbourhood. Just to let people know what a pleasure it can be to have a dog rush up to you..

[Alison03]

for goodness sake - why is it so damn hard for some people to just do the right thing and walk their dogs on leash in areas that it is required and save 'off leash' for the areas it is allowed? It is not a matter of some people being hysterical about it, it is the law and perhaps a little empathy for others would not go astray. I also don't think it matters whether the off leash dogs are large or small - I've encountered both and neither is much fun (try controlling an on leash Dane x when a small terrier is literally hanging off it's testicles, likewise facing an aggressive Mastiff x when neither of your dogs is over 20 kg), a little sympathy and respect for other dog owners doesn't hurt and would probably help the image of all dogs and owners in our society.

I'm not sure why some dog owners prefer to walk their dogs off leash, I've asked and asked but haven't received a satisfactory answer, other than thats what they want to do and they feel its worth the risk to them to do it. Apparently the rest of us taking the risk with them doesn't factor into their calculations. Doesn't make rational sense to me at all.

As you say its not hard to do the right thing.

[Alison03]

The uncontrollable hysteria in this thread is amazing. You need to take a deep breath, possibly a Prozac and a lay down. It's not world war three out there. This is not like walking across the Serengeti with a sirloin strapped to your back. Serious case of over reaction with a little bit of superiority complex thrown in and some double standards to finish things off.

Pretty sure the police would be more concerned about the lady walking around with a cattle prod than they would the person who's dog isn't on a lead. As has been said above, if someone hit my dog with a cattle prod they would most likely find themselves on the receiving end of a very nasty shock.

If that's a pic of you in your avatar, you look like a youngish fit bloke. More capable of defending yourself & your dog than perhaps a lot of others in this thread. It can be hard to imagine being vulnerable when you haven't been put in that position a lot.

Exactly.

Absolutely, empathy isn't always present in everyone.

[Alison03]

I wish it was legal to carry a weapon as I would walking my dog. Some of the dogs we pass when walking,frankly terrify the living s**t out of me, I am glad they are behind the fence and panic what if they got free. I am small and not too strong, my dog is a pup and I have a 5 yr old child with me.

I would happily arm myself if I could and will be buying the legal spray mentioned asap.

I do not think ANY dog regardless of how trained they are, should ever be of leash in public areas. If it is a specified off leash area, fair enough, but otherwise, if I see it, I will report it. Its dangerous and frightening.

My UK dog was the perfect boy, my jogging buddy for years and always off leash alongside me on the local meadows, where most dogs were off leash. He never ventured more than 2 feet from my side, ever!

One time he just went down the side of the cliff, he ran down and I couldnt recall him back, he had NEVER done this before, I trusted him 100%. This one time he bolted, no idea what animal he saw but ended up STUCK in thick mud at the bottom, whilst I screamed and couldnt climb down and nobody came to help us. He finally broke free and scrambled frantically back to me, where I leashed him and took him home. I would NEVER ever let my dog off unleashed again, it taught me valuable lesson..

As much as I would love to have a legal weapon that would stop an aggressive dog in its tracks, I can't think of one that would not kill or seriously injure the dog, pepper spray won't kill but it can blow back on the user and anyone else who happens to be around. I'm hoping one day someone will come up with one, all we've got now that is legal and harmless to the dog is Spray Shield, it won't stop a truly focussed dog however.

Thank you for telling us about your experience with having your dog off leash, there are a few dog owners on this forum who are completely convinced nothing unforeseen could happen to their off leash dog, they need to hear what has happened to others. :)

[Alison03]

I'm more of the opinion that the more nicely behaved off lead dogs the average Joe sees/meets, the better...

Seriously though, if you have a highly reactive dog, is it fair on them (or you for that matter) to be taking them to areas that may be crowded with people or other dogs? Wouldn't that be more likely to heighten their tension rather than being an enjoyable stroll for you both?

Also - if YOU are on edge whenever you see an offlead dog - don't you think that your own dog will be picking up on that tension and thusly be transmitting their own? Surely the number of offlead and aggressive dogs out and about isn't the epidemic that some would have us believe?

I've been living in this area since 1999 - and have only been rushed at by unfriendly loose dogs twice when out walking my own. Plenty of smaller territorial dogs making noise from their front yards, but nothing that has been seriously "menacing" or of any concern to me or my dogs. I live in an area where we have a very high number of people living on government assistance, and have all manner of the staffy or mastiff crosses as pets - but the unfriendly ones have definitely been a very small minority from my experience.

T.

Maybe I'll grab a group of "nicely behaved off lead dogs" and release them into the neighbourhood. Just to let people know what a pleasure it can be to have a dog rush up to you..

Hmm interesting idea, let me know when you are going to do it, I'll stay home that day.

[Alison03]

OK will certain people in this thread stop making this all about 'my little precious tiny dog' vs everyone else's ''big, vicious, nasty, powerful dog." Offleash rushing aggressive dogs are a problem to all, regardless of the size of your on leash dog.

a friend has recently acquired a rescue chihuahua. I was walking her down the street and saw some approaching people with what I thought was a loose dog... It was dark and turned out it was on a flexilead. What was interesting was that for the first time I didn't feel any panic as I normally do with my (genuinely) large dogs. I could simply pickup Ruby the Chi with one hand and hold her above my head, leaving my legs free to kick any approaching dog and my other hand free to grab any collars should the attacker try to jump up. SImple. When you have a (genuinely) large dog... Not a medium sized at best cattle dog or border collie.... The body of the dog is longer than your kicking range or your hand-grabbing range. You cannot block your dog with your body, and you cannot pick it up. you are fair game. That is truly frightening.

a dog is a dog and responsible ownership is the same for all.

Protecting a small dog is not as simple as you think. Picking up a small dog when a loose dog comes trotting over in your direction is one thing, but try doing that when a dog that truly means business comes out of nowhere with such speed and force that you don't even have time to blink before it's on top of your dog...

And that is usually how it happens.

[Alison03]

It is not illegal to carry a big metal maglight, or a walking pole or a golf umbrella. We are lucky we have quite a lot of leash free areas to choose from if we wish. I had to walk my girl after her hip surgery as part of her rehab. I only walked her round our area twice, it was frankly terrifying, and I was scared she would injure herself further , so many loose or unleashed dogs. I had not really noticed before. I too would do whatever it took to defend my dogs and make no apologies for it. Just obey the bloody law - so simple.

It was my open golf umbrella that saved me and my dog when we got attacked, thank God it was raining that day or I wouldn't have had it with me, its the reason I didn't get bitten, the dogs bit the umbrella instead. I can imagine how scary it would be to navigate around off leash dogs with your dog not 100% fit.

[Alison03]

Well, I think this pretty much sums it up

(...)"annoying the shit out of people just means too much to me.” (...)

“We refer to this condition as Partially Recognized Irrritating Canine Knowledge Syndrome. Owners seem to be aware on some level that they are annoying people with their off-leash animals, but fail to give a shit.” said the doctor. His clinic offers a six week treatment program.

Pratz, however, says he’s not ready to seek treatment.

ETA: Quote is from the article I posted earlier ;)

http://www.atlbanana.com/local-dog-owner-struggling-with-off-leash-addiction/

I think it hits the spot perfectly, annoying the shit out of people must be the real reason the off leashers do it, all that shite about being one with their dog is just the excuse that sounds good. We may need to do an intervention on some of them. :laugh:

[Rocketeer]

The point I'm making is shit happens, leashes aren't infallible and things can happen.

FWIW I'm an on-leash person. I'm not disagreeing. I just think arming yourself and being on high alert and panic stations is a really dangerous standpoint.

Yes accidents happens. But we don't need to go and drive on the wrong side of the road just because we're confident drivers. If people want to live on the "wild side" they should do so in their own little space and shouldn't be putting the public at risk.

Now I know people who've witnessed off-lead dogs tear up an on-lead dogs in front of it's owners. Guts flying everywhere. I've had many close calls myself. Little dogs rushing at us. My quick thinking has saved many off-lead dogs lives. So yes I do scan a head and I am aware of my surroundings. So I'd rather be aware then ignorant.

[Alison03]

No, it's the relationship you build with your dog. Toby walks beside me not because I have him tied to me. He walks there because I ask him to and because he wants to. Like everything in life it's required a risk assessment. I am capable, responsible and rational enough to make that assessment and I accept the consequences of the decisions I make.

What you need to come to terms with is that just because there is no lead doesn't mean there isn't control. A dog that gets out of its yard roaming the neighbourhood is not the same as a dog going for a stroll with its owner.

Applying this logic , if i am a superb driver and have a high performance car, I should be able to drive it at any speed I deem appropriate provided I accept the consequences of my driving.

And bugger what other people want eh? Bugger the fact that I may cause concern to others who don't know me or my car or my driving.

What about the consequences of your risk assessment FOR OTHERS? Did they get any consideration?

I hope at least that you carry a leash with you and use it if requested to by oncoming dog owners.

I've never been at fault in an accident. I have aftermarket performance brakes which were quite expensive. My tyres are also up there as well. I have a good solid suspension set up. I also have a great relationship with my car.

So I think I've taken precautions. Weighed out the risk. Now it makes it more safe for me to speed??

Well hang on a minute, have you done a calculated risk assessment in case you kill someone while speeding, because when you are in court it could make all the difference telling the judge that you involved everyone else in your risk and they seemed ok with it or probably would have been ok with it if you'd actually told them all they were in your risk assessment. I'm sure the judge would let you off, no worries mate.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Trudy08

[Are You Serious Jo]

How is asking people to obey the law hysteria? Last nuf nuf experience I had was some half wit throwing her goldie's tennis ball at my dogs who were on lead. My ball mad dog got excited at the ball, my reactive dog got worked up and then had a go at my ball mad dog (displacement behaviour). Then my dogs were fighting and idiot woman keeps throwing her ball at us. You aren't talking about something that rarely happens, like shark attacks but common occurrences. People have a very good reason to be angry, we can have our dogs die in front of us when all we were doing is going for a walk.

[Alison03]

I'm more of the opinion that the more nicely behaved off lead dogs the average Joe sees/meets, the better...

Seriously though, if you have a highly reactive dog, is it fair on them (or you for that matter) to be taking them to areas that may be crowded with people or other dogs? Wouldn't that be more likely to heighten their tension rather than being an enjoyable stroll for you both?

Also - if YOU are on edge whenever you see an offlead dog - don't you think that your own dog will be picking up on that tension and thusly be transmitting their own? Surely the number of offlead and aggressive dogs out and about isn't the epidemic that some would have us believe?

I've been living in this area since 1999 - and have only been rushed at by unfriendly loose dogs twice when out walking my own. Plenty of smaller territorial dogs making noise from their front yards, but nothing that has been seriously "menacing" or of any concern to me or my dogs. I live in an area where we have a very high number of people living on government assistance, and have all manner of the staffy or mastiff crosses as pets - but the unfriendly ones have definitely been a very small minority from my experience.

T.

I'm more of the opinion that if everyone obeyed the law and kept their dogs leashed as they are supposed too, then none of this would be an issue

Don't you think being rushed by unfriendly dogs only twice as you said, is twice too many times, what if your dog had been attacked and killed on one of those occasions, would that have been ok because it only happened twice. I know what would happen your posts on this forum would be very close to looking like mine for a start.

If you think the amount of dog attacks isn't that bad then you haven't been paying attention at all, only a few weeks ago two elderly ladies were attacked in separate incidents, one is still in hospital, then their was the lady who was attacked while pushing her child in a pram, they may be isolated incidents but they feel pretty bloody disastrous if they happen to you or someone you love.

If you still feel its ok and in fact beneficial for everyone to have the experience of meeting off leash dogs, you should have realised from reading the other posts on here today that you are in the minority. Seeing as the rest of us aren't as enlightened and downright superior as you and Razor, please go and live on Razors desert island (I suggested he bought one for himself) and have a blast off leash there, i do hope Toby likes your dog or you could have a problem.

Defensive much?

Please point out where I said I was walking MY dogs offlead?

As for my experiences with 2 unfriendly dogs - one was a very large Rottweiler, and the other was a small fluffy... guess which one actually frightened my dogs the most? Do you hear me ranting on about either breed type and calling them "wolves" or the like? They were 2 ISOLATED incidents - either of which could have ended badly if I had over-reacted to the threat...

I'm not claiming to be any more enlightened or superior to anyone else here - but maybe, just maybe, my being calm and rational and standing my ground when under threat might be why neither incident escalated to a full blown attack by those dogs.

In the case of the small fluffy bailing up my Dane cross and scaring her witless - that little dog was nasty - it went for me when I stood between it and my terrified "horse-puppy" - but I calmly asked it's owner to please come and secure it while we went past... up until that point the owner of the off lead fluffy thought it was extremely funny that their little dog was attacking my dog and myself. Maybe it was the tone in my voice, but they quickly secured their dog and let us pass without further incident - but I could hear them passing snide comments and laughing at me and my huge "scaredy-cat dog" as I walked off... *sigh*

As for the Rottweiler - let's just say that at the time I was walking my own 2 Rotties - both of whom hid behind me when the strange one tried to bail us up. Rotties don't frighten me (funnily enough), so I just raised my voice and put some growl in it, and firmly let the approaching dog (and it's owner some distance away) that I meant business. The owner then called their dog away before I did something to it they weren't going to like.

I will also admit that I have been trained in handling dangerous dogs - so maybe my reaction to perceived threats by dogs is a bit different to some here... which doesn't mean that I'm poo-pooing your reactions, just that I think they may be a bit more over the top than my own. That said, I've long held a fear of small yappy/bitey dogs - Pembroke Corgis in particular frighten me stupid - go figure?

T.

Sorry I didn't see this post till now, I've been flat out answering all the others.

Yes I am defensive, I was appalled when I came on this forum and saw quite a few people defending what I think is an indefensible position, which is having your dog off leash, which is both illegal and dangerous. When you wrote something along the lines of "Everyone should have the experience of meeting an off leash dog" I assumed that meant you were one of those people, my apologies if you are not, however by making that statement you are encouraging the off leash people to keep on doing what they feel is their right to do, when it is in fact the wrong thing to do. Being an enabler to wrongdoers doesn't work for me either.

Until I was attacked by the two off leash dogs I was rock solid, I stood my ground in all circumstances, I never ran or made silly noises and my dog would always move behind me and also make no sound whatsoever, that method served us well for three years, every time we were rushed by a dog it worked fabulously, until that one day when the two large dogs called my bluff and grabbed my dog. My nerve broke after that, theres nothing like doing battle with two large predators to cause you to falter. If that never happens to you then I'm happy for you, you have been luckier than me, I'm sure your experience with dangerous dogs protects you in ways I haven't even thought about. I'm amazed that Rotties don't frighten you because they scare me shitless, but thats me, I can't change my experiences and what they have done to me anymore than you can.

If everyone followed the leash laws, I wouldn't have the fears I have and I wouldn't have to be unpleasant to people who are probably very nice.

[Yonjuro]

...after 27 odd posts on this thread today Trudy08 I think we all understand your position.

[Steph M]

The point I'm making is shit happens, leashes aren't infallible and things can happen.

FWIW I'm an on-leash person. I'm not disagreeing. I just think arming yourself and being on high alert and panic stations is a really dangerous standpoint.

Yes accidents happens. But we don't need to go and drive on the wrong side of the road just because we're confident drivers. If people want to live on the "wild side" they should do so in their own little space and shouldn't be putting the public at risk.

Now I know people who've witnessed off-lead dogs tear up an on-lead dogs in front of it's owners. Guts flying everywhere. I've had many close calls myself. Little dogs rushing at us. My quick thinking has saved many off-lead dogs lives. So yes I do scan a head and I am aware of my surroundings. So I'd rather be aware then ignorant.

I agree wholeheartedly, aware and alert beats the hell out of panic stricken.

I can not personally justify carrying a maglite or a stick or cattle prod no matter how many unfriendly dogs we've come across. It honestly stinks of all kinds of crazy to me and I really have to bow out of this ridiculous thread now. It's infuriating from both sides of the argument, you should not have your dogs ambling free off lead, there's not any real need, however if shit happens and my dog happened to say get out after a break in, or snap his collar or something else happen and some loony beat him or sprayed him I would be beyond furious and as much as you have a right to defend your own, so would I. And I would.

Friendly off lead dogs don't bother me in the slightest, but it's law as the majority are troublesome or less than controlled, but from the other side of the fence you really need to assess the situation at hand before losing your mind and whipping out a cattle prod. Perhaps if you really are considering arming yourself because walks in your neighborhood are so traumatic for you, it might be best to think about a dog treadmill or an acreage or something.

I really would be more concerned about some unauthorised person carrying a concealed weapon than a dog.

Oh and I'll just leave this here too, from www.police.vic.gov.au

Dangerous Articles

Dangerous articles are any item which is either:

carried with the intention of being used as a weapon, or

adapted or modified so as to be capable of being used as a weapon.

Dangerous articles can include things that are otherwise lawful. For example, everyday tools, household items or sports equipment etc.

A person must not possess or carry dangerous articles in a public place without lawful excuse.

Lawful excuse includes:

a) the pursuit of any lawful employment, duty or activity

b) participation in any lawful sport, recreation or entertainment

c) the legitimate collection, display or exhibition of the article, and

d) the use of the article for the purpose for which it is designed or intended.

Lawful excuse does not include for the purpose of self-defence.

[OSoSwift]

My dogs are very well trained and behaved. They will walk at heel with no lead. They will call off live prey.

My dogs are walked on lead in and around town and built up areas where required to. Why? Because I know my dogs are not robots and I am not willing to risk something may cause them to not listen or stop thinking and then they get hit by a car or injured by a dog. I think too much of my dogs to risk that, I would never forgive myself.

Edited September 14, 2013 by OSoSwift

[Kajirin]

I've only been rushed by off leash dogs twice in the last 21 years.

The first being in the suburbs as I was walking my two huskies on leash. We were crossing a bridge and two off leash GSD's rushed my boy [ignored my girl]. I stood in front of both my dogs to shield them, but the GSD's went in behind me. As they starting munging on my boy he lost his footing and fell over the edge of the bridge He was hanging by his leash on a check chain and I didn't let go of him [as it was an over 3 meter drop on to jagged rocks below]. So fighting the two dogs off, making sure they didn't go for my girl and holding onto the leash of my boy I was in a bit of a pickle [heh I was only 17 at the time]. The bloke who owned the other dogs came racing over and leashed his two and ran off. Didn't help me at all to pull up my boy [who by this time was being strangled and writhing at the end of the leash]. Don't know where I got my strength from, but managed to pull him up using one arm. Just fell in a heap afterwards hugging my boy, my girl just sat next to me licking me. Got us all home eventually, had the boy checked out by a vet after and he was fine, just bruised and sore around his neck.

The second time wasn't as bad, just a cattle dog rushed out from a front yard when I was out walking my other Boxer [who's since passed on] and bit him around his back end. I was shielding his head. Spoke to a woman that was out the front and said what'd happened, she just shrugged her shoulders and went inside. Didn't get a sorry or anything, so rang the council. Heh owner got slapped with many fines that day as he'd been quite rude to the council guy. But also helped knowing where the dog had come from :)

Leashes and proper gates make such a difference :D

[Alison03]

...after 27 odd posts on this thread today Trudy08 I think we all understand your position.

Well I'm glad I've got through and made myself understood, I'm not the only one on this thread who feels the same way. But thanks for keeping count. : )

[Roova]

Back in my fit days I used to run around a local hilly block. A house at the bottom of the hill had a lab who was always free to wander at will and he would often come out and run with me around the block. I know he followed other people too and the owners were well aware of him doing it.

He was a sweet dog but it became exhausting keeping him off the road and monitoring what he was doing. It was also embarrassing when others were coming toward me with their dogs on lead, I felt like the most irresponsible owner.

One day he literally ran a plumber off the road and that morning I stood in his owners yard tapping on their window at 5.30am until someone came out. I was so angry I can barely remember what I said but it was something along the lines of how would you feel if your dog was hit by a car or killed someone who served to avoid hitting him? Stop being a lazy owner letting other people walk your dog and keep him inside your own yard. I've never spoken to anyone like that in my life but she said sorry and he was behind their gate from that point on. Probably totally un-exercised, but at least alive!

[JulesP]

I've only been rushed by off leash dogs twice in the last 21 years.

The first being in the suburbs as I was walking my two huskies on leash. We were crossing a bridge and two off leash GSD's rushed my boy [ignored my girl]. I stood in front of both my dogs to shield them, but the GSD's went in behind me. As they starting munging on my boy he lost his footing and fell over the edge of the bridge He was hanging by his leash on a check chain and I didn't let go of him [as it was an over 3 meter drop on to jagged rocks below]. So fighting the two dogs off, making sure they didn't go for my girl and holding onto the leash of my boy I was in a bit of a pickle [heh I was only 17 at the time]. The bloke who owned the other dogs came racing over and leashed his two and ran off. Didn't help me at all to pull up my boy [who by this time was being strangled and writhing at the end of the leash]. Don't know where I got my strength from, but managed to pull him up using one arm. Just fell in a heap afterwards hugging my boy, my girl just sat next to me licking me. Got us all home eventually, had the boy checked out by a vet after and he was fine, just bruised and sore around his neck.

The second time wasn't as bad, just a cattle dog rushed out from a front yard when I was out walking my other Boxer [who's since passed on] and bit him around his back end. I was shielding his head. Spoke to a woman that was out the front and said what'd happened, she just shrugged her shoulders and went inside. Didn't get a sorry or anything, so rang the council. Heh owner got slapped with many fines that day as he'd been quite rude to the council guy. But also helped knowing where the dog had come from :)

Leashes and proper gates make such a difference :D

The other owners not helping seems to be a bit of a theme. The owners of the dog that attacked me and my dog left me laying on the frigging nature strip and walked back into their house. I think that upset me the most.

[Alison03]

I've only been rushed by off leash dogs twice in the last 21 years.

The first being in the suburbs as I was walking my two huskies on leash. We were crossing a bridge and two off leash GSD's rushed my boy [ignored my girl]. I stood in front of both my dogs to shield them, but the GSD's went in behind me. As they starting munging on my boy he lost his footing and fell over the edge of the bridge He was hanging by his leash on a check chain and I didn't let go of him [as it was an over 3 meter drop on to jagged rocks below]. So fighting the two dogs off, making sure they didn't go for my girl and holding onto the leash of my boy I was in a bit of a pickle [heh I was only 17 at the time]. The bloke who owned the other dogs came racing over and leashed his two and ran off. Didn't help me at all to pull up my boy [who by this time was being strangled and writhing at the end of the leash]. Don't know where I got my strength from, but managed to pull him up using one arm. Just fell in a heap afterwards hugging my boy, my girl just sat next to me licking me. Got us all home eventually, had the boy checked out by a vet after and he was fine, just bruised and sore around his neck.

The second time wasn't as bad, just a cattle dog rushed out from a front yard when I was out walking my other Boxer [who's since passed on] and bit him around his back end. I was shielding his head. Spoke to a woman that was out the front and said what'd happened, she just shrugged her shoulders and went inside. Didn't get a sorry or anything, so rang the council. Heh owner got slapped with many fines that day as he'd been quite rude to the council guy. But also helped knowing where the dog had come from :)

Leashes and proper gates make such a difference :D

That's just an awful experience for anyone to have, and shame on the owner of the off leash dogs, I imagine he's still applying to be a member of the human race as we speak and the cattle dog owner is in the same queue with him. I used to think that all people are basically good but stories like that shake my faith. I'm glad you got your boy back onto the bridge, it's amazing how strong you become when you have too. You did the right thing by contacting the local council, if these inconsiderate people don't get checked, their dogs will keep on doing the same thing to other people.

They say "Fences make good neighbours" well add some gates and a leash to that and that will make really good neighbours. :)

Edited September 14, 2013 by Trudy08