Identification Of "menacing Dogs"

[sandgrubber]

I'm thinking that the new legislation will mean that the "evidence" will be mostly anecdotal - ie. someone reports that a dog growled at them, and the authorities investigating will look at breed/size of the dog, and declare it "potentially dangerous" based on that...

I hope I'm proven wrong...

T.

I doubt you will be proven wrong

when a smaller dog attacks a larger dog and gets whats coming is it the large dog's fault? or the small dog's owners who think its funny that it snaps at the big dog?,....from experience and luckily I had my dog on lead

It is the owner's fault. In the case you describe, BOTH owners. Btw, 'Gets whats coming' suggests a bloodthirsty attitude.

Edited August 25, 2013 by sandgrubber

[mac'ella]

I'm thinking that the new legislation will mean that the "evidence" will be mostly anecdotal - ie. someone reports that a dog growled at them, and the authorities investigating will look at breed/size of the dog, and declare it "potentially dangerous" based on that...

I hope I'm proven wrong...

T.

I doubt you will be proven wrong

when a smaller dog attacks a larger dog and gets whats coming is it the large dog's fault? or the small dog's owners who think its funny that it snaps at the big dog?,....from experience and luckily I had my dog on lead

It is the owner's fault. In the case you describe, BOTH owners. Btw, 'Gets whats coming' suggests a bloodthirsty attitude.

not really my attitude, I never let my dog off lead in the park if there are new dogs present and if someone is entering I and most others put their dogs on lead till the dogs are introduced,if there are any signs of aggression from either dog they aren't let off,I don't want my dogs becoming aggressive,but in the case of someone walking straight in and releasing their dog which runs up and attacks another on lead then call it inevitable if you prefer,if someone has a large dog which will defend itself if provoked how can it be their fault when another attacks it????

[sandgrubber]

1377503230[/url]' post='6284844']

1377433296[/url]' post='6284329']

1377425447[/url]' post='6284206']

1377329623[/url]' post='6283477']

1377204677[/url]' post='6282563']

I'm thinking that the new legislation will mean that the "evidence" will be mostly anecdotal - ie. someone reports that a dog growled at them, and the authorities investigating will look at breed/size of the dog, and declare it "potentially dangerous" based on that...

I hope I'm proven wrong...

T.

I doubt you will be proven wrong

when a smaller dog attacks a larger dog and gets whats coming is it the large dog's fault? or the small dog's owners who think its funny that it snaps at the big dog?,....from experience and luckily I had my dog on lead

It is the owner's fault. In the case you describe, BOTH owners. Btw, 'Gets whats coming' suggests a bloodthirsty attitude.

not really my attitude, I never let my dog off lead in the park if there are new dogs present and if someone is entering I and most others put their dogs on lead till the dogs are introduced,if there are any signs of aggression from either dog they aren't let off,I don't want my dogs becoming aggressive,but in the case of someone walking straight in and releasing their dog which runs up and attacks another on lead then call it inevitable if you prefer,if someone has a large dog which will defend itself if provoked how can it be their fault when another attacks it????

I had my two Labbies at the neighbor's, off lead. A mini Daschund, who was visiting one house down, came flying out at my dogs, snarling, yapping and biting. My dogs looked at me as if to say: 'what do we do, this little idiot is attacking us?' Someone picked up the little yapper and the scene passed. The problem with a large dog 'defending' itself against a small dog is the small dog often ends up badly hurt, or sometimes dead.

It is extremely irresponsible of people to allow little guys with small dog syndrome to run free in places where they will encounter large dogs. But large dog owners who take their dogs in public places all know this happens much more often than we'd like. A stable dog with a high bite threshold will realize it is in no danger and not react. If you have a reactive dog, you need to be prepared to react in a flash and get your dog off, should a little guy come out snapping. Simply allowing your dog to deliver the punishment you think the little guy deserves is highly irresponsible. Even if, in your heart of hearts, you would like to see the little bugger dead. If you take a reactive dog out in public, you need to be prepared to curb its reactions.

[raineth]

I would think a dog which growls, barksor runs at a person is menacing.

So, if a dog barks from inside the house at a door knocking sales person, it would be declared menacing?

If the salesperson feels threatened then yes

I feel threatened by sales people, can they be labeled menacing?

Some sales people definitely qualify as menacing!

[Santo66]

It is extremely irresponsible of people to allow little guys with small dog syndrome to run free in places where they will encounter large dogs. But large dog owners who take their dogs in public places all know this happens much more often than we'd like. A stable dog with a high bite threshold will realize it is in no danger and not react. If you have a reactive dog, you need to be prepared to react in a flash and get your dog off, should a little guy come out snapping. Simply allowing your dog to deliver the punishment you think the little guy deserves is highly irresponsible. Even if, in your heart of hearts, you would like to see the little bugger dead. If you take a reactive dog out in public, you need to be prepared to curb its reactions.

Actually you need to make sure your dog is in compliance with the management requirements of a particular area first and foremost and be in a position where anyone would reasonably believe an incident shouldn't arise in other words, a leashed dog walked on the street is not responsible for the result of attack from a dog at large escaping someone's property regardless of the dog's size as the dog at large has breached the management requirements to begin with, that is had the owner of the escaping dog complied with the management requirements the incident would have been avoided.......the dog on leash is not the menacing dog regardless of the outcome.

This has been tested at law a few times where large dogs on leash have injured small dogs off leash in a public place who have mounted attacks on the large dog or it's handler. One case where a small dog was PTS from result of injury inflicted by the large dog was appealed twice and on each occasion the large dog owner escaped prosecution.

[tdierikx]

It is extremely irresponsible of people to allow little guys with small dog syndrome to run free in places where they will encounter large dogs. But large dog owners who take their dogs in public places all know this happens much more often than we'd like. A stable dog with a high bite threshold will realize it is in no danger and not react. If you have a reactive dog, you need to be prepared to react in a flash and get your dog off, should a little guy come out snapping. Simply allowing your dog to deliver the punishment you think the little guy deserves is highly irresponsible. Even if, in your heart of hearts, you would like to see the little bugger dead. If you take a reactive dog out in public, you need to be prepared to curb its reactions.

Actually you need to make sure your dog is in compliance with the management requirements of a particular area first and foremost and be in a position where anyone would reasonably believe an incident shouldn't arise in other words, a leashed dog walked on the street is not responsible for the result of attack from a dog at large escaping someone's property regardless of the dog's size as the dog at large has breached the management requirements to begin with, that is had the owner of the escaping dog complied with the management requirements the incident would have been avoided.......the dog on leash is not the menacing dog regardless of the outcome.

This has been tested at law a few times where large dogs on leash have injured small dogs off leash in a public place who have mounted attacks on the large dog or it's handler. One case where a small dog was PTS from result of injury inflicted by the large dog was appealed twice and on each occasion the large dog owner escaped prosecution.

But in many cases, the larger dog's owner hasn't had the funds to mount such an appeal - and thusly their dog has inevitably been euthanaised fro reacting in kind to an attack by a smaller dog.

Being a large dog owner (2 of which are bullbreed crosses) I am distictly aware that if my dogs WERE to retaliate when attacked, they would be the target of some serious action - regardless of any facts showing that my dogs were not the initial aggressor. Therefore, it is MY job to make sure that they AREN'T prone to reacting in kind when set upon by another dog - but look to ME to get them out of that sort of predicament. It's all part of ownership of a larger dog really... having some responsibility for the fact that if they were to bite something, it would have a much greater impact than if a smaller dog bit something, yes?

Personally, I don't think ANY dog, regardless of size, should be "allowed" to be nasty in public... but the "rules" seem to be applied more along the lines of how much damage the individual dog can do, as opposed to the fact that they ALL can cause some form of damage with their teeth. I'd rather not be bitten by ANY dog, thank you very much.

T.

[Lhok]

Just wondering about this, Yesterday I was walking with my daughter and husband to her preschool when a older lady and her elderly chi were walking. The chi was on a lead but he started barking and lunging at my daughter when we walked past even going so far to double back round to have a nip at us. The lady wasn't too phased she laughed and told us that "This is the hairy beast you hear barking through the fence behind the pre school" and continued on.

I am concerned about the dog being close to the school although the teachers at the preschool have said that they have never seen the dog try to escape the yard as of yet.

Would that be considered menacing?

--Lhok

[tdierikx]

Just wondering about this, Yesterday I was walking with my daughter and husband to her preschool when a older lady and her elderly chi were walking. The chi was on a lead but he started barking and lunging at my daughter when we walked past even going so far to double back round to have a nip at us. The lady wasn't too phased she laughed and told us that "This is the hairy beast you hear barking through the fence behind the pre school" and continued on.

I am concerned about the dog being close to the school although the teachers at the preschool have said that they have never seen the dog try to escape the yard as of yet.

Would that be considered menacing?

--Lhok

Yep - think small dog bites small child = significant wounding requiring medical care from a professional.

Just because it's a Chi or elderly, doesn't give it or the owner the right to behave that way. It's NOT funny.

T.

[mac'ella]

1377503230[/url]' post='6284844']

1377433296[/url]' post='6284329']

1377425447[/url]' post='6284206']

1377329623[/url]' post='6283477']

1377204677[/url]' post='6282563']

I'm thinking that the new legislation will mean that the "evidence" will be mostly anecdotal - ie. someone reports that a dog growled at them, and the authorities investigating will look at breed/size of the dog, and declare it "potentially dangerous" based on that...

I hope I'm proven wrong...

T.

I doubt you will be proven wrong

when a smaller dog attacks a larger dog and gets whats coming is it the large dog's fault? or the small dog's owners who think its funny that it snaps at the big dog?,....from experience and luckily I had my dog on lead

It is the owner's fault. In the case you describe, BOTH owners. Btw, 'Gets whats coming' suggests a bloodthirsty attitude.

not really my attitude, I never let my dog off lead in the park if there are new dogs present and if someone is entering I and most others put their dogs on lead till the dogs are introduced,if there are any signs of aggression from either dog they aren't let off,I don't want my dogs becoming aggressive,but in the case of someone walking straight in and releasing their dog which runs up and attacks another on lead then call it inevitable if you prefer,if someone has a large dog which will defend itself if provoked how can it be their fault when another attacks it????

I had my two Labbies at the neighbor's, off lead. A mini Daschund, who was visiting one house down, came flying out at my dogs, snarling, yapping and biting. My dogs looked at me as if to say: 'what do we do, this little idiot is attacking us?' Someone picked up the little yapper and the scene passed. The problem with a large dog 'defending' itself against a small dog is the small dog often ends up badly hurt, or sometimes dead.

It is extremely irresponsible of people to allow little guys with small dog syndrome to run free in places where they will encounter large dogs. But large dog owners who take their dogs in public places all know this happens much more often than we'd like. A stable dog with a high bite threshold will realize it is in no danger and not react. If you have a reactive dog, you need to be prepared to react in a flash and get your dog off, should a little guy come out snapping. Simply allowing your dog to deliver the punishment you think the little guy deserves is highly irresponsible. Even if, in your heart of hearts, you would like to see the little bugger dead. If you take a reactive dog out in public, you need to be prepared to curb its reactions.

that is exactly what I'm talking about and whether the large dog would be declared dangerous if defending itself,my boxer will want to play with any new dog he meets and his reaction when he was attacked was to push the small dog down with his feet and hold it,you mentioned dachunds they are a hunting breed and will take on anything regardless of size,I watched a Judge Judy episode once where one had charged at two larger dogs on leads and was injured,she wouldn't have it that this cute little sausage dog would attack the larger dogs,some of my friends also own labs and wont go to the dog park if certain small dogs are there for the same reason,one is the most placid dog you could meet and would turn and run if snapped at ,but you have to wonder how much even the most placid dog will take before reacting.There are other dogs at the park which all get on great but will react if attacked,if they are out of your reach playing off lead and something happens it wouldn't take much to injure the smaller dog,

[kelpiecuddles]

Yes Lhok. My daughter was bitten on the face by a maltese terrier when she was about two years old. She did nothing at all to cause the dogs reaction it simply lunged at her and luckily just missed her eye. In hindsight i wish I'd reported it but as it happened at the shops i would have had no way of tracing where the man who owned the dog lived.

[Dame Aussie]

Only dog that ever bit me was a little terrier cross that was roaming stray at my primary school. Got me right in the face too

[JulesP]

Me and the dogs got attacked by a cat yesterday!! Frigging thing came under a fence yowling and swiping! The dogs were very sweet and just looked to me to fix the problem. I wonder what would have happened if one of the dogs had chomped it.

[german_shep_fan]

Me and the dogs got attacked by a cat yesterday!! Frigging thing came under a fence yowling and swiping! The dogs were very sweet and just looked to me to fix the problem. I wonder what would have happened if one of the dogs had chomped it.

I've had that happen too and have wondered the same. Surely though if dogs are on lead and cat not on own territory/yard then dog and owner would be in the right? At least that's what I would hope!

[Santo66]

It is extremely irresponsible of people to allow little guys with small dog syndrome to run free in places where they will encounter large dogs. But large dog owners who take their dogs in public places all know this happens much more often than we'd like. A stable dog with a high bite threshold will realize it is in no danger and not react. If you have a reactive dog, you need to be prepared to react in a flash and get your dog off, should a little guy come out snapping. Simply allowing your dog to deliver the punishment you think the little guy deserves is highly irresponsible. Even if, in your heart of hearts, you would like to see the little bugger dead. If you take a reactive dog out in public, you need to be prepared to curb its reactions.

Actually you need to make sure your dog is in compliance with the management requirements of a particular area first and foremost and be in a position where anyone would reasonably believe an incident shouldn't arise in other words, a leashed dog walked on the street is not responsible for the result of attack from a dog at large escaping someone's property regardless of the dog's size as the dog at large has breached the management requirements to begin with, that is had the owner of the escaping dog complied with the management requirements the incident would have been avoided.......the dog on leash is not the menacing dog regardless of the outcome.

This has been tested at law a few times where large dogs on leash have injured small dogs off leash in a public place who have mounted attacks on the large dog or it's handler. One case where a small dog was PTS from result of injury inflicted by the large dog was appealed twice and on each occasion the large dog owner escaped prosecution.

But in many cases, the larger dog's owner hasn't had the funds to mount such an appeal - and thusly their dog has inevitably been euthanaised fro reacting in kind to an attack by a smaller dog.

Being a large dog owner (2 of which are bullbreed crosses) I am distictly aware that if my dogs WERE to retaliate when attacked, they would be the target of some serious action - regardless of any facts showing that my dogs were not the initial aggressor. Therefore, it is MY job to make sure that they AREN'T prone to reacting in kind when set upon by another dog - but look to ME to get them out of that sort of predicament. It's all part of ownership of a larger dog really... having some responsibility for the fact that if they were to bite something, it would have a much greater impact than if a smaller dog bit something, yes?

Personally, I don't think ANY dog, regardless of size, should be "allowed" to be nasty in public... but the "rules" seem to be applied more along the lines of how much damage the individual dog can do, as opposed to the fact that they ALL can cause some form of damage with their teeth. I'd rather not be bitten by ANY dog, thank you very much.

T.

If the attacking dog is off leash, that is it's in breach of leash regulations in a public place and the leashed dog defends itself and injures the attacking dog, provocation is a statutory defence and had the attacking dog been on leash as it should and under effective control, the incident wouldn't have happened. What's been tested in court is the owner of the attacking dog mounting a case for loss against the leashed dog because it nailed the attacking dog.

[Santo66]

Me and the dogs got attacked by a cat yesterday!! Frigging thing came under a fence yowling and swiping! The dogs were very sweet and just looked to me to fix the problem. I wonder what would have happened if one of the dogs had chomped it.

Nothing would happen, the dog and owner is in the right.

[sandgrubber]

1377608155[/url]' post='6285799']

1377574883[/url]' post='6285451']

1377573887[/url]' post='6285437']

It is extremely irresponsible of people to allow little guys with small dog syndrome to run free in places where they will encounter large dogs. But large dog owners who take their dogs in public places all know this happens much more often than we'd like. A stable dog with a high bite threshold will realize it is in no danger and not react. If you have a reactive dog, you need to be prepared to react in a flash and get your dog off, should a little guy come out snapping. Simply allowing your dog to deliver the punishment you think the little guy deserves is highly irresponsible. Even if, in your heart of hearts, you would like to see the little bugger dead. If you take a reactive dog out in public, you need to be prepared to curb its reactions.

Actually you need to make sure your dog is in compliance with the management requirements of a particular area first and foremost and be in a position where anyone would reasonably believe an incident shouldn't arise in other words, a leashed dog walked on the street is not responsible for the result of attack from a dog at large escaping someone's property regardless of the dog's size as the dog at large has breached the management requirements to begin with, that is had the owner of the escaping dog complied with the management requirements the incident would have been avoided.......the dog on leash is not the menacing dog regardless of the outcome.

This has been tested at law a few times where large dogs on leash have injured small dogs off leash in a public place who have mounted attacks on the large dog or it's handler. One case where a small dog was PTS from result of injury inflicted by the large dog was appealed twice and on each occasion the large dog owner escaped prosecution.

But in many cases, the larger dog's owner hasn't had the funds to mount such an appeal - and thusly their dog has inevitably been euthanaised fro reacting in kind to an attack by a smaller dog.

Being a large dog owner (2 of which are bullbreed crosses) I am distictly aware that if my dogs WERE to retaliate when attacked, they would be the target of some serious action - regardless of any facts showing that my dogs were not the initial aggressor. Therefore, it is MY job to make sure that they AREN'T prone to reacting in kind when set upon by another dog - but look to ME to get them out of that sort of predicament. It's all part of ownership of a larger dog really... having some responsibility for the fact that if they were to bite something, it would have a much greater impact than if a smaller dog bit something, yes?

Personally, I don't think ANY dog, regardless of size, should be "allowed" to be nasty in public... but the "rules" seem to be applied more along the lines of how much damage the individual dog can do, as opposed to the fact that they ALL can cause some form of damage with their teeth. I'd rather not be bitten by ANY dog, thank you very much.

T.

If the attacking dog is off leash, that is it's in breach of leash regulations in a public place and the leashed dog defends itself and injures the attacking dog, provocation is a statutory defence and had the attacking dog been on leash as it should and under effective control, the incident wouldn't have happened. What's been tested in court is the owner of the attacking dog mounting a case for loss against the leashed dog because it nailed the attacking dog.

Scr#w the letter of the law. If you have a reactive dog, try to prevent it from killing or maiming the stupid little sh#ts that may attack from time to time. Letting your dog deliver punishment is inviting trouble it would be simpler and easier to avoid.

[tdierikx]

Scr#w the letter of the law. If you have a reactive dog, try to prevent it from killing or maiming the stupid little sh#ts that may attack from time to time. Letting your dog deliver punishment is inviting trouble it would be simpler and easier to avoid.

Yep I agree with the above 100%... but wouldn't it be wonderful if the aggressive behaviours displayed by said "stupid little sh#ts" was acted upon with as much fervour as happens with the larger dogs?

T.

[Lasareina]

Further to the original post ... this news story popped up in my fb feed today.

http://www.vetico.com.au/news/cabinet-approves-harsher-punishment-for-dangerous-dogs-228

The New South Wales Cabinet approved harsher punishment for dangerous dogs including a new classification of dog called “menacing dog.”

The proposal was made six months ago by the state’s Companion Animals Taskforce after it made a report on how to manage dangerous dogs. The proposal was passed after a two-year-old was mauled to death by a dog at his grandmother’s house in Deniliquin ABC News reports.

The new legislation will require the owner of a dog that commits a serious attack to be fined up to $77,000 or to be incarcerated for up to five years. A new category of dog classification called “menacing dogs” will help keep dangerous dog owners responsible for attacks.

"The main reason for introducing that new category of dog is to enable council rangers to be more proactive and prevent dog attacks," Local Government Minister Don Page said. "At the moment the arrangement is a dangerous dog has to have been guilty of an attack before it can be labeled that way.”

The new legislature gives authority personnel the ability to classify a dog by signs of aggressive behavior before an attack occurs. Control measures for these types of potentially dangerous dogs are more severe than normal dogs. "For example a menacing dog, if it was out in the public, would have to be muzzled,” Page said. “It would have to be under the control of an 18-year-old, at least, on a leash."

The proposal will have to be passed by State Parliament to be ratified as law.

[melzawelza]

I still maintain that if it's done right it will be a good thing for dogs and the community in NSW. I just wish there was a training requirement as well.

I have two different dogs at the moment that this category would be perfect for. Dangerous Dog is overkill based on the incidents but that is really my only option if I want some controls on the dogs (which I do, and they need). These owners are probably going to cop dangerous dog, but if this had passed already I'd be going the menacing route, and they wouldn't have to spend $3000+ on the enclosure (or put their dog to sleep, as many people opt to do when they see the enclosure requirements).

[tdierikx]

Still need more rangers to enforce the legislation in place... and for the public to actually report incidents that happen... otherwise it will be yet one more thing that won't work as intended.

T.