Blackhawk, Artemis Or Holistic Select

[Clyde]

If you try try a different food make sure you switch it over very slowly across the week. A sudden change can cause tummy upsets.

But if your dog is doing well on the ProPlan and is fit and healthy then I think you have your answer :) My neighbours dogs are a picture of health on this food. They did try Royal Canin which I think maintained their weight a little better (they are fatty boombas) but they like to try to buy Made In Oz where possible. It's not Oz owned but made here iykwim. They jumped on BH when it first came out as it is Oz made and owned but it didn't suit their dogs at all. My other neighbour feeds Royal Canin and the dogs look fabulous too. They have a working Kelpie who was fed working dog food, he looked fine, but when they go their Lab they switched to RC Lab and just fed it to the Kelpie too as it was easier. It's amazing the difference it's made. His coat is SO glossy and soft.and he doesn't smell as much too. His coat was a bit dry before RC.

[sas]

To me 'quality' is about the ingredients, have a look at the ingredients panels and compare them. For me, personally I want specific meat/s in the first 4 ingredients, I don't want an by-products or fillers, but to recognise what fillers are takes some research on your behalf. All Kibbles have fillers but you'll need to decide what you're happy with and how much of it. I will absolutely not feed anything with Corn and that's not because I'm hung up on Corn being bad for dogs but because in so many cases it's GMO sourced - it's also a completely useless ingredient.

I have grown a Dane puppy on ProPlan with absolutely no problems at all, I would probably refer to it as B class, next time around I will use Holistic Selectic Giant because form my research it's the kibble that has the best ingredients and the right ratios for growing a Dane puppy, in saying that Blackhawks new Fish kibble came a close second.

Artemis was pretty good from memory but I have learned not to assume the whole line is good just because I've seen the ingredients of 1 bag - they are often different.

I wasn't actually that impressed with the ingredients of TOTW when I researched them which was unfortunate as I'd heard so much hype about their ingredients.

Edited August 20, 2013 by sas

[Clyde]

To me 'quality' is about the ingredients, have a look at the ingredients panels and compare them. For me, personally I want specific meat/s in the first 4 ingredients, I don't want an by-products or fillers, but to recognise what fillers are takes some research on your behalf. All Kibbles have fillers but you'll need to decide what you're happy with and how much of it. I will absolutely not feed anything with Corn and that's not because I'm hung up on Corn being bad for dogs but because in so many cases it's GMO sourced - it's also a completely useless ingredient.

I have grown a Dane puppy on ProPlan with absolutely no problems at all, I would probably refer to it as B class, next time around I will use Holistic Selectic Giant because form my research it's the kibble that has the best ingredients and the right ratios for growing a Dane puppy, in saying that Blackhawks new Fish kibble came a close second.

Artemis was pretty good from memory but I have learned not to assume the whole line is good just because I've seen the ingredients of 1 bag - they are often different.

I wasn't actually that impressed with the ingredients of TOTW when I researched them which was unfortunate as I'd heard so much hype about their ingredients.

I am no good at deciphering ingredients and just go by the look of the dog. Your assessment though perhaps explains why my dogs looks better on HS than TOTW, when I had assumed TOTW would be better for them when it was grain free and still in that premium market.

[Inevitablue]

The way some websites talk about Royal Canin, you expect the bags to grow horns and a tail.

Lol, no just feathers! :laugh:

[luvsdogs]

I won't buy Pro Plan because the 3rd ingredient is corn. Although years ago when they 1st introduced their sensitive dry with oats instead of wheat my Border Collie at the time was incontinent whenever she ate wheat. I was introduced to this food & she didn't have any more incontinence.

My current dogs are mostly raw meaty bone fed especially my JS to try & keep his teeth in reasonable condition. As an extra for my BC I feed Nature's

Gift I think it is from Woolies. There's also an equivalent one in Coles. The only thing is they have beet pulp which I also don't like.

[Sail_Away]

I have spent a bit of time looking at different dry foods before I got my pup and I decided to go with 'Artemis fresh mix med/large puppy mix'. The ingredients listed in the first few lines will make up the bulk of the food and to me artemis was great. These are the ingredients:

Chicken, Turkey,Chicken Meal, Salmon Meal,Pearled Barley, Whole Brown Rice, Oatmeal, Millet, Potatoes, Dried Egg, Tomato Pomace,Chicken Fat ( preserved with mixed tocopherols Salmon,Flaxseed,Natural Chicken Flavour, Salmon Oil ( A source of DHA) Choline Chloride,Dried Chicory root, Kelp, Carrots, Peas,Apples, Tomatoes, Blueberries, Spinach, Cranberry Powder, Rosemary Extract, Parsley Flake, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Green Tea Extract, Barley Grass Extract, L-carnitine, Enterococcus Faecieum, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Saccharomyces Cerevesiae Fermentation Solubles, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D Supplement, Folic Acid

Try and avoid anything that says "meat meal" - this means it can be any animal or parts from animals.. best for it to say lamb meal or salmon meal etc. I liked that the first 4 ingredients were proteins and the next few are not really fillers.

I predominantly feed a raw diet with Vets all Natural or my own veg mix but I will occasionally feed dry (maybe once a fortnight) or put it in her kong wobbler every now and then… I bought a 6kg bag of this artemis when I first bought my girl home (8 weeks old) and only this month ran out - she is 1 in a few days…. however, I decided to buy some more dry food today and after going back through all the brands and looking at all the ingredients came back to this same one so I bought it again… I buy from www.naturalpetstore.com.au - I think there prices are very reasonable and it's only $5 flat rate shipping. I got an email just now saying it's been dispatched already (I ordered about 4 hours ago!) - I also bought another 5kg bag of VAN for puppies as it's taken the same amount of time for this to run out…! I think the key is to feed variety and whatever your dog does best on. My girl gets a big variety of different raw meats including sardines, salmon, lamb, chicken, liver, kidneys, beef, kangaroo, turkey etc whatever I can find. I give raw eggs, flaxseed oil, cottage cheese, psyillum husk occasionally and sometimes I cook pork with rice and cooked veg.

Everyone on here has great knowledge on different foods and dry kibbles - but again whatever suits your dog best.

Also just while I'm at it - I actually have two 10kg bags of Royal Canin 'Mature' (dogs over 7 years) that are unopened and I would like to get rid of - the only thing is they expired in late 2012… PM me if interested

[fluff1234]

Hi, I would not feed royal canin but thanks anyway ;)

I bought a bag of Holistic select today and they were great and said if he didnt eat it I can return it. I will slowly switch him over as I dont like a few of the ingredients in Pro plan, expecially corn and soy and by products.

So will see how we go :) Thanks so much everyone :)

Edited August 21, 2013 by fluff1234

[fluff1234]

I also add raw in which so far he has had, beef strips, tuna, salmon, beef mince, chicken and turkey mince.. ( not all together) I will add a whole egg this afternoon and fresh yoghurt :)

i am planning to switch to VAN when he is around 1 anyway :)

[Jess the Lab]

My lab did well when she was on Artemis. Coat looks shiny. She looks more mediocre when she was on BlackHawk.

Would continue on with Artemis but the price is just too high! Continue on mostly with Canidae.

[bellske]

I just switched my pup to Wellness Large puppy mainly due to the stated max limit on calcium, phosphorus and fat, and all I can say so far is taste wise the pup goes nuts for it compared to Artemis, poops seem to have a better look about them as well, not that they've ever been soft or runny though.

[Remarkabull]

Why can't you switch to VAN now? They make a puppy mix and as I have a 4 month old pup here all,of my dogs are being fed this and doing great on it. My pup has been on it since around 10 weeks of age (I started them on kibble but he and his mother don't really like dry food and will walk away from it)

[Sail_Away]

I also started my pup on VAN since about 10 weeks of age… the puppy formula is up to two years.

[fluff1234]

The breeder has said that she does NOT want him fully fed raw until at least 9 mths and was pretty adamant about it..

Why can't you switch to VAN now? They make a puppy mix and as I have a 4 month old pup here all,of my dogs are being fed this and doing great on it. My pup has been on it since around 10 weeks of age (I started them on kibble but he and his mother don't really like dry food and will walk away from it)

[Clyde]

The breeder has said that she does NOT want him fully fed raw until at least 9 mths and was pretty adamant about it..

I think given she was so adamant about it I would probably trust that she knows her lines and go with that. You can still feed partially raw. I've not ever fed what the breeder has fed but only because the dogs I have were fed inferior diets when I got them ie coles dry food, pal, weetbix and milk etc. But if a breeder were to be already feeding a quality diet and has shown some knowledge in what their dogs do well on then I would be inclined to listen and somehow incorporate their feeding recommendations in to their diet.

[fluff1234]

Thanks :)

thats why I am following her recmendations, just the pro plan wanting to change, which is new to her too as she is also trying it. She has also mentioned looking into Black hawk. I have started switching to Holistic select slowly as prefer the ingredients and will keep feeding the half raw as she does. I will wait until 9-12 mths as she told me to switch to full raw, then it will be VAN and raw meat/bones :)

The breeder has said that she does NOT want him fully fed raw until at least 9 mths and was pretty adamant about it..

I think given she was so adamant about it I would probably trust that she knows her lines and go with that. You can still feed partially raw. I've not ever fed what the breeder has fed but only because the dogs I have were fed inferior diets when I got them ie coles dry food, pal, weetbix and milk etc. But if a breeder were to be already feeding a quality diet and has shown some knowledge in what their dogs do well on then I would be inclined to listen and somehow incorporate their feeding recommendations in to their diet.

[Yonjuro]

I also agree with following what your breeder has said. Having said that Van + Raw meaty bones is not fully raw at all. I don't really understand why kibble + raw is okay but vans plus raw isn't

[Steph M]

We started off on the RC, but found Gus didn't really like it and unless it was mixed with yoghurt he could give or take it, poop was good and he was growing well but didn't really like it. I wasn't overly keen on the stuff in it either.

I changed him to the Artemis 'fresh mix' and I can't wait to get off it now. Was fine for the first few weeks, now all we get are sloppy yellowish poop but he LOVES the food.

It's awful, I've tried less food, yoghurt but it all comes out the same and just does not agree. He is still growing fabulously and in good nick, but the poop is bad and wrong, and he farts so loud he actually wakes himself up and moves away from the smell, I kid you not.

Both have been mixed with meat, offal, sardines or egg and his 'lunch' is now a big raw meaty bone, which means we're going through it even slower... probably next step will be the Holistic Select Large & Giant Breed Puppy.

It's trial and error and my only advice is as financially sound as buying the mega bags is, best not to do that straight off the bat...

Let me know how you go if you beat me to the change, the only thing I don't like is the beet pulp in the Holistic Select. Argh!

[OSoSwift]

Why is VAN and raw meat not fully raw?

[Yonjuro]

Why is VAN and raw meat not fully raw?

I am assuming that "raw" is referring to raw meat, so mixing a product made of cereals etc to meat would mean that the meal is not fully raw - would it not? I am not bagging VANs by the way I am just interested in why meat and kibble is okay but meat and vans is not.

I am not fully conversant in VANs products so I was assuming we were talking about their Complete Mix type foods that are made to be mixed with raw meat, rather than their packaged meat products.

[OSoSwift]

Okay yep you could look at it that way for sure.

I look at it from the view that the VAN mix is not cooked, or processed apart from the rolled oats and there is a little dried stuff, but it isn't cooked or processed so therefore raw - in my way of thinking :)

I didn't see it as bagging was just interested.

Edited August 27, 2013 by OSoSwift