Reasons Not To Remove Dew Claws

[MonElite]

I have watched about 2 minutes of the video and could only think - why are these dogs in the freezing cold water. Why are they are being filmed and where is the person filming them standing, as many shots are from up close.

That is so dangerous! The ice could give in and that person would be most likely dead.

Regardless of dew claw removal , right or wrong, what would happen if a dog couldn't get out from the water? I hope that person had a back up plan for getting their dog out!

[Kirislin]

I have watched about 2 minutes of the video and could only think - why are these dogs in the freezing cold water. Why are they are being filmed and where is the person filming them standing, as many shots are from up close.

That is so dangerous! The ice could give in and that person would be most likely dead.

Regardless of dew claw removal , right or wrong, what would happen if a dog couldn't get out from the water? I hope that person had a back up plan for getting their dog out!

I'd say he had a zoom lens

[ravenau1]

It's an interesting topic. My Dobe does indeed use her dewclaws a lot for holding/manipulating things, so I am glad she has them. But at the same time, I have to keep them carefully trimmed and filed because she also tends to use them like Velociraptor claws.

[DakotaJ]

I have watched about 2 minutes of the video and could only think - why are these dogs in the freezing cold water. Why are they are being filmed and where is the person filming them standing, as many shots are from up close.

That is so dangerous! The ice could give in and that person would be most likely dead.

Regardless of dew claw removal , right or wrong, what would happen if a dog couldn't get out from the water? I hope that person had a back up plan for getting their dog out!

If you listen to the narration he repeatedly says that there is open water behind the dogs so that they can turn and swim back to the bank. The dogs aren't in any danger while he is filming

[Salukifan]

My vet (who has been in the profession for over 40 years) is adamant that it is one of his absolutely least favourite operations - repairing or removing dewclaws from adults. It's massively painful and traumatic. And his advice is also that it is far too common to see them injured... Let alone neglected ones, especially on coated dogs.

I agree whole heartedly. There are enough pet owners out there who seem incapable of maintaining the nails on their dogs' feet, let alone dealing with dew claws. Embedded dew claws due to owner ignorance/negligence? I don't need to see more of that.

The removal of a damaged dew claw on an adult dog is a major operation - very traumatic for the dog.

*sits and ponders the irony and lack of logic of those "animal rights advocates" who argue for desexing surgery on baby puppies while throwing up their hands in horror at the idea of removing due claws on neonates*

Edited August 16, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[Kirislin]

I suppose equally there could be a thread titled Reasons for removing dew claws, and there would be many.

[Salukifan]

I suppose equally there could be a thread titled Reasons for removing dew claws, and there would be many.

It's not a clear cut "yes" or "no" to me but the idea that its "cruel" to remove them needs some serious testing. Sure beats the hell out of having one growing into your leg.

[Alyosha]

And the very important reason it is done in such tiny and young pups is the lack of solid connection at that age. Cruel? No. Ripping out a digit? No.

[Podengo]

Interesting dew claw article by Christina Zink

[persephone]

And the very important reason it is done in such tiny and young pups is the lack of solid connection at that age. Cruel? No. Ripping out a digit? No.

[sandgrubber]

I've been watching a litter of five day old pups scoot around the whelping box. Their locomotion is surprisingly similar to the retrievers working on ice in the video. They use their dew claws like mad. I wonder if anyone has ever compared neonate locomotion with and without dewclaws. Might puppy mortality, particularly through being squished by mum, be higher when dew claws are removed?

Btw, in my OP, I didn't say dewclaw removal was cruel or condemned anyone for doing it. I just said it made me feel terrible. I'm not against removing dew claws, but I don't think it should be done casually, or for cosmetic reasons. Mum not blinking an eye when it's done is no test. Mums can be amazingly unreactive to puppy distress, as in when they sit on pups and squash them to death, or stand by and watch microchips inserted.

MonElite, retrieving on ice is central to the original purpose of the retriever. The Newfoundland dogs imported to the UK ...progenitors to Labbies, flatties, Goldies, Chessies, etc., excelled in work in frozen water, probably both working as assistance dogs to fishermen on the Grand Bands, and as hunting dogs when the fishing wasn't so good. The rural folk at high latitudes do a lot of hunting when the days are short and there's ice on the pond. Hence high value placed on dual coat with high water repellency, and hence the high popularity of Labs in Scandinavia, Russia, and Canada. And as DakotaJ noted, the trainer is being careful...it sounds like he's prepping the dogs so they WON'T get in trouble when working in the field under frozen conditions.

Edited August 16, 2013 by sandgrubber

[persephone]

That was a good article !

Our workers all have front dews ..any mutant rear ones are certainly removed .

I can see their benefit in active situations, and also when eating large bits of dead animals ....

On the other hand , when I was working with both guide dogs and live in therapy dogs the removal of front dews provided more safety for fragile people..less scratches, no chance of these claws being hooked in fabric, etc ..and certainly one less task when grooming - esp when people only check basics a lot of the time. I also saw how sometimes my poor Mum would get Hamlet's dewclaw marks on her thin skin ....

If I have a house dog/couch potato type . some day ,. I would prefer no dews.

[pipsqueak]

After having one dog tear dew claws three times in an 18 month period, we opted to have them removed... she had also torn them at least twice previously. Yes, it was a large operation, and no doubt painful, but we had to balance that against her continuing to tear her dew claws. And when I say teat, I am not talking about merely a broken nail. She would tear them down basically to the "joint"... at least twice she tore them so badly that they had to sedate her to remove the nail. Oh, and always tore them late evening... still no idea how!

[sandgrubber]

Dr. Christine Zink, the dog sports medicine lady, has a good veterinary article on dewclaws.

http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5/3/1/15319800/dewclawexplanation_rev_apr_10_2013.pdf

She is specific about the anatomy of dew claw attachment...and claims that dewclaw removal can result in old age arthritis.

Quoting from that source:

Those muscles indicate that the dewclaws have a function. That function is to prevent torque on the leg. Eachtime the foot lands on the ground, particularly when the dog is cantering or galloping (see Figure 2), the dewclawis in touch with the ground. If the dog then needs to turn, the dewclaw digs into the ground to support the lowerleg and prevent torque. If the dog doesn't have a dewclaw, the leg twists. A lifetime of that and the result can becarpal arthritis, or perhaps injuries to other joints, such as the elbow, shoulder and toes. Remember: the dog isdoing the activity regardless, and the pressures on the leg have to go somewhere.

[Alyosha]

In my breed, being quite heavy, with long pasterns and fast movement (including tight turns), a twist at speed and a dewclaw digging into the ground can easily be a dewclaw torn... Notwithstanding that of course, many in the breed go through life without injuring them. Then there are other breeders consider that an avoidable injury and remove them.

[RallyValley]

When hunting you are usually at least an hour but sometimes 3 or more hours from a vet... Imagine if the dog tore a dew claw while out running through paddocks/fences etc and you had to drive that far with an injured dog in pain. Or, you could just remove them at a neonate and never face an easily preventable issue. :)

[Kavik]

All of my dogs have dew claws. Diesel is the only one who has had problems with a nail that came out and then grew back, but then again he is my accident prone dog!

[sandgrubber]

1376630845[/url]' post='6278279']

When hunting you are usually at least an hour but sometimes 3 or more hours from a vet... Imagine if the dog tore a dew claw while out running through paddocks/fences etc and you had to drive that far with an injured dog in pain. Or, you could just remove them at a neonate and never face an easily preventable issue. :)

To answer that you need to know the probability of a torn dew claw, and the likelihood that removal of dew claws will cause problems, such as arthritis described by Dr Zink ...or reduce the dog's functional ability by removing grip. I've never seen a torn dew claw, and my dogs dewclaws are tight to the ankle, so I don't see the probability of a torn dewclaw as high....others have different experiences and weigh the odds differently.

[Kirislin]

I suppose equally there could be a thread titled Reasons for removing dew claws, and there would be many.

It's not a clear cut "yes" or "no" to me but the idea that its "cruel" to remove them needs some serious testing. Sure beats the hell out of having one growing into your leg.

I agree with you there but OP didn't say it was cruel. I also agree with her that it feels to me as if we're cutting off their thumbs. Having had it done to 2 3 day old litters I do know that they didn't cry much and were soon sound asleep, so I dont think they suffered. I just hated having it done anyway. I can see where it could be needed with inactive and/or neglected breeds, but I wish it wasn't the fashion for whippets.

[minimax]

I wish my girl didn't have dew claws, would probably save a few eye injuries.