How To Trian A Toy Motivated Dog

[whitka]

As the title says and I hope this isn't a silly question. I have never had a dog who wasn't keen on food so have always used food more in training. Now I have a dog who is so toy motivated he would rather play then eat, today at class he would hardly touch the treats I bought for him.. So how do I use this in training? Especially when he gets over excited or silly about the toy?

[huski]

When you say you rewarding with a toy, what do you mean? Are you playing tug or throwing a ball etc?

[whitka]

Huski I want to use both for a bit of verity. He loves to fetch and play with tug toys.

[Weasels]

This video is just about heeling, but it does show the use of both tug and throw

I trained Chess primarily with toys and when she is being stupid I just wait it out, or decrease criteria then shape improvement. She mostly learned to work through the silliness although she does still often go into a crouch instead of a drop, anticipating the throw. I could probably shape that to be better too just haven't worried about it

[ness]

Here is an old one of mine Whitka - we were trying to fix a specific issue with Kenz forging and crabbing but you will see me rewarding with a frisbee but also tugging with it.

[whitka]

Thanks LBD and Ness that as given me a better idea. I think I did ok today using a toy, someone was nice enough at class to lend me a toy to use with Noah as I was really struggling with him with the food and trying to get his attention (first day of class for us ) and as soon as he saw the toy he had a much better focus and I was able to use the toy as a lure as well as a reward. I really want to get into agility with Noah and I always see more people in agility use toys more so then food.

Edited August 11, 2013 by whitka

[Santo66]

It's basically the same as rewarding with food for a specific behaviour except that instead of giving a treat you give a toy reward. Because a toy isn't a consumable like food, there is some foundation training required with toys to use them effectively, most important is the dog must release or out a toy on command otherwise they will take off with it as a rule and you will spend more time chasing them to get it back for another routine :laugh: Training with toys need to be "your" toys, that is you don't leave your training toy laying around for the dog to become possessive over or too familiar with where the dog looses drive for it. Balls or tug toys are good with driven dogs or a combination of both. :)

[BCNut]

Thanks LBD and Ness that as given me a better idea. I think I did ok today using a toy, someone was nice enough at class to lend me a toy to use with Noah as I was really struggling with him with the food and trying to get his attention (first day of class for us ) and as soon as he saw the toy he had a much better focus and I was able to use the toy as a lure as well as a reward. I really want to get into agility with Noah and I always see more people in agility use toys more so then food.

Something I found really useful for working with toys as rewards was Susan Garrett's 1-2-3 game. Tie a piece of string or thin rope (depending on how strong your dog is ;) a few metres long to your tug toy. Place your dog in a sit-stay or drop-stay and throw the toy out a metre or so to start with. Count out 1-2-3 then 'Get it!' or similar - when your dog gets to the toy, run the other way so that he chases you with the toy in his gob then have a game of tug with him. The rope is there for early stages if he decides to entertain himself with the toy, you can reel him in Great for impulse control and showing that reinforcment happens with you, not elsewhere :) Also this skill becomes really important and useful for things like tunnel training, driving out of obstacles and 2x2 weave pole training :)

Edited August 12, 2013 by BCNut

[huski]

This is an old video, and Wiz's heel work is approximately 1000x better now ( :laugh: ) but it shows you how I use a magnetic ball as a reward. I find the mag ball particularly useful for obedience!

I use a tug too, but I do mix it up. If I am using a tug I will throw it on the ground and have her heel over the top of it etc then release her to it. She races to it and brings it back to me a for a game.

[whitka]

What's the best way to teach him to bring the toy back to me and give me back the toy? I'm just at the very early stages of training with him.

[huski]

I would have him on a long line until he is consistent with bringing it back, I would also consider giving him a food treat if he will take it when he brings it back, or having two balls so as soon as he brings it back you throw the other ball etc.

I find that playing tug can be a good starting point for building a relationship where the dog sees you as being a huge part of making the game happen, he needs to learn that when he brings the tug back to you the game happens which is lots of fun. Tug can be a bit more interactive like that compared to a ball where you often throw the reward away from you.

[BCNut]

Build a good history with the toy too; get your tug game rules down pat in close quarters first - make it really fun and give it structure; 1) If you touch me, game ends 2) When I say out (or your release toy command), game ends 3) Only tug when I say tug.

As for handing the toy over, play a game called 'Tug and out'. Place the dog in a sit. Dangle to the toy around him at a distance that isn't going to drive him too crazy if he's new to impulse control, when he's showing restraint mark with a 'yes' and release to tug with a word such as 'tug'. Play for a few moments. Before he escalates too far, stop tugging and moving altogether and put a piece of his dinner kibble on his nose and as he releases give your verbal cue for releasing a toy such as 'drop'. Give him the kibble. Then start again...keep it short and fun, get really excited and animated as this will engage him more. Be sure to fade the kibble as soon as you can so he does not become dependant on being fed to spit out a toy.

This way he should be very focused on the toy when you release him to it and the toy should only have value if you are holding it which will help encourage him to bring it straight to you.

Having the toy to a line is very effective in this context because, if you reel the toy in and he drops it, it will 'come alive' and keep moving along the ground - encouraging him engage his prey drive and chase the toy to pick it up again. Also when he keeps hold of it he will feel you pulling the line in and come in your direction for a game.

[whitka]

Thanks guys for the advise! So another question is what toys are good to use in training especially for little dogs? What are the types of toys you like to use in training?

[huski]

Thanks guys for the advise! So another question is what toys are good to use in training especially for little dogs? What are the types of toys you like to use in training?

Sorry if I missed this Whitka, what breed/size is the dog?

[megan_]

Depends on what I'm training. I do agility so I want a toy I can throw straight that has a bit of weight, that will land exactly where I want it and the dog can bring back to me (ball or decent tug works well in this regard).

I also want a toy that can lie "dead" as a lure, they bring it to me and it springs to life. I ball doesn't work well in this scenario and a decent tug is best for this.

The best tugs I've found for small dogs:

i) The sheep bar tug from cleanrun

ii) A mini sheep tug with a wee tennis ball on the end, which gives it good weight for throwing. I got it from Cathy Slot (I think her website is clickerdogs.com).

My dogs have soft mouths and need something to grip, which is why they prefer the sheep tug over leather or french linen.

[whitka]

Thanks guys for the advise! So another question is what toys are good to use in training especially for little dogs? What are the types of toys you like to use in training?

Sorry if I missed this Whitka, what breed/size is the dog?

He's a Maltese x Shih Tzu, just a little guy at 2 years old.

I'll also add were just starting at beginning with him but later down the track I want to do agility with him

Edited August 12, 2013 by whitka

[huski]

Cool! Ok, if he likes balls, I find the ChuckIt erratic balls are awesome, as are the Chuckit Ultra Balls. You can add a rope onto the ChuckIt Erratic balls which is the ball I use as my magnetic ball.

The other option for balls which I think is awesome is a small orbee ball on a rope, Orbees are really super balls for training and the small size is perfect for little dogs.

For a tug, a flirt pole is a good starting point for building drive, and I like leather bite rags too. A french linen pocket tug is also useful to have as well.

[whitka]

Thanks Meagn and Huski i'll have look at these. Don't think my bank account will like this but the little guy sure will :laugh:

[Kavik]

Clean Run have a huge range of toys - for tugging as well as throwing

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=29

For a really little dog or puppies these are pretty cool

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2938&ParentCat=29

[Staffyluv]

Ziggy was totally toy focused (tennis balls actually) when we first started training. He had no interest in food at all. We tried just about everything to get him interested in food for training and nothing worked. Until I stopped feeding him of a night and the morning before training - I only did it for about 5 weeks and then he became interested in the food because he was really hungry..

We still use our kong squeaky tennis ball because it is his absolute fave thing to train for - when we are on our own (not so good at obedience as every time it squeaks every other dog looks to see where it is coming from).. He has one that the squeaker has been removed from and is still more than happy to train for it - but again, it bothers some other owners as their dogs are pretty ball focused - hence the reason we persevered with treats.

He likes to catch the treats the same as he catches his ball - that was the link I found.. If he gets to catch the treat he does better than when I am just trying to give it to him - he isn't really interested in the food if I just hand it to him.

Now he works for the squeaky ball, the non squeaky ball and treats. He will also work for pats and praise.. But prefers to get something for his efforts still.

The treat we found eventually worked was cheese and homebrand devon (apparently it is fit for human consumption but I have my doubts)..