Kids & Dogs

[luvsdogs]

What are your thoughts on this situation?

Had a relative visit from interstate with his 2 1/2 year old son. He also has a nearly 6 year old daughter. This relative grew up with dogs until he left home as a young adult.

Saw him about 3 years ago when he had his daughter with him to visit his sick mother. At that time he said his daughter was scared of dogs because she had been attacked 2 or 3 times by different dogs while out walking with him. Each time he either kicked or if an owner present told them to take control of their dog. I don't think she was injured physically each time because it wasn't mentioned. While we were at the hospital coffee shop he said look at this. "Daughter there's a dog." Daughter jumps in terror to look at said dog. He only did it to prove his point.

This time he says she's been attacked another 2 or 3 times, one being a Lab that rushed up to her, knocking her over & then licking her face. Father has either did or warned an owner if one is present I'll kill your dog if it hurts my daughter & you don't get it away. He also told us that he's taught her to be afraid of dogs so she won't go near dogs, I don't think she would as he's put the fear of God into her. Each of these incidents he's said she was doing nothing or even been aware of the dogs until they attacked her for no reason.

It worried me the first time I heard of this that a boy that had grown up with dogs had such animosity towards dogs. This time I said that the dogs could sense the fear on her. He says, no, they've proved that dogs can't sense a human's fear. I don't believe this. Thoughts??? I said children should be taught to respect dogs & not to fear them. He says no, if they fear dogs they'll stay away as he wants to protect his children from dogs.

I've reared 3 sons & only had the youngest one bitten by dogs that we knew & both times it would have been his &/or my fault but that's another story. Those of you with young children or those with friends with young children that maybe don't have dogs, are they being attacked by dogs for no apparent reason? I was bitten in the ear by a friend of a friend's dog when I was about 7 or 8, it didn't make me afraid of dogs. Don't remember much about it now.

Edited September 8, 2013 by luvsdogs

[OSoSwift]

My youngest has been snapped at twice by dogs. Once was his (and my fault) the other was no fault of his own he walked past a dog who perceived he was too close left its bed and snapped at his face.

He for some reason has always been fine with our dogs but afraid of dogs he doesn't know.

Their behaviour is totally different and dogs act different towards my two boys - the other is not worried about dogs but knows not to approach them.

I believe that my youngest is more of a magnet to get snapped at because of his body language and behaviour than the oldest one.

He would be wise to teach calm avoidance than fear

If a dog goes up to my eldest he stands still and let's it sniff, if a dog goes to my youngest he panics, lifts his arms, his movements are jerky and his breathing pattern changes, he used to bolt to me but is getting better. We are working on it and I have no idea where it came from as we have always had dogs and he is fine with ours

Edited August 11, 2013 by OSoSwift

[mita]

There's a huge difference between having a healthy, realistic caution about being around dogs.... if you're a child...& being so frightened that you then behave in ways that may actually invite problems. Like squealing with fear, running away... & even giving off the scent of fear.

The really useful training for children around dogs.... is the same as the training of children to be around anything with potential for harm. We teach children how to behave positively in relation to traffic... not to terrify them witless about cars. We teach them positive, coping behaviours that they can actually do to keep themselves safe. Not train them to be terrified, but emphasize practical realistic caution.

There's sound, responsible information available for children being around dogs. This is what the little girl needs.

Edited August 11, 2013 by mita

[luvsdogs]

There's a huge difference between having a healthy, realistic caution about being around dogs.... if you're a child...& being so frightened that you then behave in ways that may actually invite problems. Like squealing with fear, running away... & even giving off the scent of fear.

The really useful training for children around dogs.... is the same as the training of children to be around anything with potential for harm. We teach children how to behave positively in relation to traffic... not to terrify them witless about cars. We teach them positive, coping behaviours that they can actually do to keep themselves safe. Not train them to be terrified, but emphasize practical realistic caution.

There's sound, responsible information available for children being around dogs. This is what the little girl needs.

This is what I tried to convey to the father, but he would have none of it. Said they were too young & on the other hand they were very intelligent for their age.

[JulesP]

I would question whether the child has even been attacked or whether dogs have just approached her?

[mita]

So the father thinks the child is too young to learn? I suppose she's already been taught how to clean her teeth, how to behave when out in the busy street, how to dress herself & a whole lot more. By 6 yrs, she's also at school. Is she unable to attend school because her father thinks she's too young to learn? I bet not.

If the little girl is lucky, maybe that's one of the sensible schools which has a Being Safe around Dogs Program in place. But the learning from home is so much stronger & more consistent. This child is being taught responses that are more likely to put her in danger, rather than practical things which will help her be safe.

Edited August 11, 2013 by mita

[luvsdogs]

Couldn't agree more mita. Was asked if I could use an ipad, swiping etc, nope never used one. But 2 1/2 year old can.

[mita]

Couldn't agree more mita. Was asked if I could use an ipad, swiping etc, nope never used one. But 2 1/2 year old can.

:)

[RuralPug]

There's a huge difference between having a healthy, realistic caution about being around dogs.... if you're a child...& being so frightened that you then behave in ways that may actually invite problems. Like squealing with fear, running away... & even giving off the scent of fear.

The really useful training for children around dogs.... is the same as the training of children to be around anything with potential for harm. We teach children how to behave positively in relation to traffic... not to terrify them witless about cars. We teach them positive, coping behaviours that they can actually do to keep themselves safe. Not train them to be terrified, but emphasize practical realistic caution.

There's sound, responsible information available for children being around dogs. This is what the little girl needs.

Exactly right - although there are bogan parents who not only do NOT teach their children traffic safety, they blame the drivers for not slowing to 5kph when their toddlers are playing unsupervised on the footpath. Fortunately they are in the minority.

[bertie]

Sounds a lot more like misguided parenting combined with inadequate supervision around dogs.

He is trying to keep his child safe through fear, lots of parents do it, some go way over the top. Doesn't mean he hates dogs, means he needs to learn better parenting strategies.

Very hard to have that conversation though.

[BrigadoonRose]

A six year old attacked by dogs 7 times is extremely unusual in my experience. I have 3 kids 12 & under and none of them, their friends or my nieces & nephews have ever been attacked by dogs.

I have come across kids that have a fear of dogs for no apparent reason, especially toddlers & preschoolers. I think whether they "grow out of it" depends a lot on how the parents handle it.

It seems you are dealing with a father who is very protective of his daughter. Trying to change parenting style/attitudes is a bigger can of worms than dog training styles!

[Ryami]

It puts alarm bells in my head that a child has been "attacked" multiple times. As a mother of two children, I am wondering what are the parents doing that puts the child in such risky situations??

[Dame Aussie]

I call bullshit. Attacked seven times at age 6? I don't believe that. Unless his idea of being attacked, is very different to mine.

[Santo66]

My mum a dog person, her mum (nanna) a breeder taught us as kids to respect dogs and strange dogs not to approach them but ignore them as they can bite........we were also taught to read the body language of a dog......we were told the truth about dogs which didn't create fear, in fact as a teenager around 13/14 years of age I used to seek out guard dogs in commercial yards near us and feed them through the fence......had a GSD and Dobe I could end up patting for a treat, not that I would have jumped the fence to really test them

Putting fear into kids about dogs is stupid IMHO but having said that a couple of months ago, I had a kid rush at me to pat my not so friendly dog and intervened quickly to prevent contact.......kid say's "does he bite" where I replied he can do and the kid's mum who was standing there and allows her little daughter to rush at strangers with their dogs starts yelling at me telling her daughter that my dog can bite causing her daughter to fear dogs.......I won't repeat here how I responded to that, but this was the exact opposite of teaching a kid to fear dogs, this mother was teaching her kid there was no consequence of wrong behaviour towards a strange dog....the poor little girl is a bite victim waiting to happen with the wrong dog and owner who lacks control.

Kids need to be raised with the truth about dogs and taught how to interact with them and most of all respect dogs and treat them properly either extremes of fear or confidence are not the way to raise kids in regard to dogs IMHO.

[megan_]

I must say I'd be protective of a 2.5 year old - not all dogs are stable, and I've seen many friendly dogs who don't know how to behave around kids. I'd only trust dogs that I know and have nerves of steel - not that many of those around.

[megan_]

ETA: while dogs don't smell fear, fearful people act differently around dogs. They tend to tense up, become rigid and state at the dog. These are typical "fight " signs and this can set dogs off.

[Steph M]

It's very sad really, to induce a fear so strong a kid recoils and jumps at that age under the guise of 'their safety'.

Seems mad to me, I can't imagine any positive outcome to such learning. When you mentioned the lab rushed and licked her, I'd call that an overenthusiastic greeting rather than an attack, not ideal, but certainly not a mauling by any stretch of the imagination.

Very sad all up, that kid will miss so much!

[german_shep_fan]

It puts alarm bells in my head that a child has been "attacked" multiple times. As a mother of two children, I am wondering what are the parents doing that puts the child in such risky situations??

+1

Edited August 11, 2013 by german_shep_fan

[kelpiecuddles]

I was 'attacked' by lots of dogs when I was a child, they were usually wagging their tails and licking me all over and once they were done I'd finish giggling, get up and keep playing. To me it sounds like the father is interpreting over the top play from the dog as an attack. Maybe she has been snapped at once or twice and he now sees any dog moving quickly around her as threatening.

More often than not I'll growl at my children rather than the dog if a dog isn't behaving positively. Most of the time it's because the child is doing somethiung that the dog doesn't appreciate, it's meant my kids have a healthy respect for dogs rather than fear. But as PPs have said, that's asking him to change his entire parenting style and that's a whole new ball game.

[juice]

The pastor from the church behind me built a house next door to me a couple of years ago.

The older pastor in talking to me once told me the younger pastor did not like dogs.

The young pastor moved in with his wife and 4 children, they are terrified of dogs.

When I walk past with mine onlead the children stop, scream " dog" and run to a parent, who I have heard say "good, well done".

I have passed him on the street with the kids and he huddled around them arms shielding them as I walked by!

Its very sad as initialy the youngest child would stand and watch me go by and even took a few steps towards me once.

The worst was one weekend we were all out on the road watching the kids play and skate,with the dogs all onlead, and they had guests who wanted to leave who were parked outside our house, they kept looking out of the window.

Then the hubby ran as fast as he could to his car and drove it up the pastors drive where the family rushed to get in!

I don't agree with putting your fears on kids, and in my case he has actually taught them how not to behave!

I very much doubt the girl has been attacked, a dog rushing over to say hi is not attacking.