Obedience In Sa - Now Vs 20 Years Ago

[BDJ]

Hi all,

Sorry for the vague topic, but I have a couple of questions and was hoping to get some general info using the anonymity of the internet :-)

I did obedience about 20 years ago - up to and including UD titles.

Stepped away and haven't been near a club or a ring since then.

But I now have a 15 week old Sheltie baby and wow - I forgot what it was like to have a smart, trainable dog who loves to learn - so far have done a total of 8 lessons (longest lesson has been 4 mins) - and the first one was lead training :-) and in that time we now have

- automatic sit

- acceptable heal position (well as acceptable as you expect from a baby)

- drop on command (still a bit wonky)

- 45 sec sit and drop stays

Recalls are purely calling him when he is off playing and he comes to me flat chat with a grin on his face

All work is with praise - he is the greediest little devil I have ever seen, so not going near food at all (apart from the free range recall) - he would jump through fire for a play and a cuddle and you literally see him squirm with delight when he gets a told what a clever boy he is and gets a pat and a rub.

Sorry for the drivel, but he is an absolute angel who loves life and everyone in it

But back to my questions :-)

From what I have heard and read, I have the below perceptions, and was wondering if they were right or wrong.

- all clubs train with food !! (my concern is that my boy is the most food driven pup I have had - if he thought that food was available every thought would disappear and I would have a blithering idiot on my hands)

- instructors touch your dog and will take it off your hands in the middle of a class if they want to (something I see as a NO GO - damage can be done so quickly)

I would also love to know what a 'longtermers' thoughts are for comparing then to now. I have been told that you cant touch your dog between classes in trials, it is more subdued now etc, etc

I don't want to give the impression I thought the old days were perfect, it wasn't, just keen to know the differences

I don't know if I will go to a club or become involved at all, we are just having fun at the moment.

There is a club quite local, and have watched from the side, but was put off by there being 4 or 5 dogs tied up who barked loudly and constantly for an hour - and given the park is right next to houses and it was 10 am on a Sunday morning I thought it was a bit rich - no one from the club made any attempt to distract or quieten the dogs, and left me wondering about the club as a whole

Any thoughts, suggestions or comparisons would be appreciated, ta

[huski]

I think there are lots of different ways to approach training dogs and that probably hasn't changed much over time :)

With what you are saying about not using food - I think this comes down to having a different perspective. I seek out pups with lots of food and prey drive, I want to utilize that in training. If he becomes a "blithering idiot" around food, he needs to learn more self control and have a better understanding of how to gain rewards.

My dogs food and prey drive would match any dogs but I use it to my advantage and IMHO the results of that pay off by giving you a dog that is more durable and 'bomb proof' plus you just can't match the attitude that comes with working a dog in drive.

When my dog is working she doesn't want to have cuddles and pats - she's in drive for a different reward than praise. She stilll plays with me and play is very physical as i have built that into the reward experience but a pat in that moment wont satisfy her. Some people don't like that but it's how I do it and it works great for us :)

It definitely comes down to your goals and what you want. Lots of people get scared or put off if their dog shows lots of drive for food and prey but it doesn't have to be scary it can work amazingly to your advantage if you use it properly.

[GeorgieB]

I'm only newish to clubs and training and don't trail yet so can't answer all your questions but the situation you described with barking dogs sounds familiar, was the club at ridgehaven?

I train at two clubs, para districts in Salisbury on Sunday morning and the less structured local concil one on Wednesday nights. I've never had an instructor take my dog from me nor seen them take someone else's. But if an instructor wanted to I'm sure you could say no.

Instructors have only ever touched my dog for stand for exam exercises, and to say hello to her before or after class :)

[fuzzy82]

Agreed with above, your dog needs to learn to work even when highly aroused (such as around food, other dogs, around prey animals, etc). I would look up "it's yer choice" on youtube, as it's a great way to teach impulse control around food.

As for instructors taking dogs off people, that's just bad etiquette. An instructor should always ask permission to demonstrate one someone's dog, and if that involves giving correction, they need to also ask if it's ok if they give the dog a correction if they need to.

[BDJ]

thanks for the answers - and yes, it was Ridgehaven :-)

I have no issues with working with food, but don't want to at the moment. He is less than 4 months old, and is more than happy working without it - at the moment it would only be another distraction to be worked through. In a couple of months time when he develops a little more mentally and emotionally I will definitely be using it.

I was more asking about the concept of 'everyone using food and other people offering dogs treats'. I have seen it at dog parks, at the vets and have heard about it on other threads in this forum - instructors or other members just giving treats.

thanks

[huski]

I don't really experience that but I don't use dog clubs and don't go to places like dog parks.

I had a shop assistant at the pet store ask if they could give my dog a treat the other day and I just said she would love one but let me give it to her.

If an instructor at a club or anyone asked to take my dog or went to take them I would just say no

[BCNut]

I've recently done a bit of a dog club crawl across SA. There's many different approaches...most are flexible enough in that, if you didn't want to use food that would be fine. Same goes for not wanting your dog taken from you. If you were thinking of joining a club I would do as you have been doing and 'tourist' as many as you like until you find one that is flexible enough to consider your training needs. I've heard also that Para district is good but have not visited...closer to the city there is CBS (canine behavioural school) at Trinity Gardens (more food focus but very flexible in their students training needs) and down south Dover Gardens is great (less food focused).

Not a fan of the dog parks around here either, generally speaking. The other people offering other dogs treats stuff is just a doggy etiquette no no as far as im concerned, regardless of where it is. People should always ask first...

Edited August 10, 2013 by BCNut

[Tassie]

BDJ wrote

I would also love to know what a 'longtermers' thoughts are for comparing then to now. I have been told that you cant touch your dog between classes in trials, it is more subdued now etc, etc

Haven't obedience trialled in SA - but have in Vic and Tas. The obedience trial rules specifically allow verbal and/or physical praise between exercises - the only caveat would be that it shouldn't be rowdy enough to disturb a dog working in the next ring. I do physical play with my boy, and things like hand touches and leg weaves to keep him happy and engaged. In many areas of the country, I believe that the attitude to obedience is changing - increasingly it's being seen as fun and exciting, and it's a good thing for dogs and handlers to be seen to be having fun :D . Like BDJ I've been in the game for many years, and I'm enjoying it now more than ever.

[GeorgieB]

I don't know a lot about the club at ridgehaven on Sunday mornings, but there is a different club that train at the same place on Wednesday nights which I go to. It's run by the council and I believe the head instructor is the same head instructor at para districts.

The Wednesday night at ridgehaven is a little less structured than para districts, and if I could only go to one of the two it would definately be para districts. But I've never had an issue at either :)

[Weasels]

I'm only newish to clubs and training and don't trail yet so can't answer all your questions but the situation you described with barking dogs sounds familiar, was the club at ridgehaven?

I train at two clubs, para districts in Salisbury on Sunday morning and the less structured local concil one on Wednesday nights. I've never had an instructor take my dog from me nor seen them take someone else's. But if an instructor wanted to I'm sure you could say no.

Instructors have only ever touched my dog for stand for exam exercises, and to say hello to her before or after class :)

Hehe - I heard one of the Para Districts trainers talking about a black & white Aussie they thought was a BC and I wondered if it was you :D

[GeorgieB]

Haha most likely was

[rubiton]

To the OP - I went down to the local obedience club to where I am. Yes they suggested food to keep the dogs attention if they otherwise get distracted when trying to heel, stay etc. However if your dog responds to praise that's also encouraged (note I had no food til I was given some to use since no one mentioned bringing treats). My dog however has the concentration of a gnat and even with food spent half the time trying to sniff the ground when he was suppose to be heeling. The instructor did say something about praise etc in regard to trialling but since mine isn't going to be doing that anytime soon (this decade!) I don't remember what it was.

Basically it comes down to you can do what you want - if you prefer to train with praise only no one can force you to use food. Its like how our beginner class after we'd done the sit stay 30 min later it was suggested to try to stand stay same exercise - in which my dog sat as he'd just learned so others tried it but I would have just confused mine. Especially since we are trying to teach him to sit not stand when he is still (unless the command is a straight stand).

DO instructors handle your dog - well the instructor briefly took mine to demonstrate the correct length of lead (seems they hold the lead with the right and the left is free for hand commands - I naturally hold the lead with the left and the right holding the slack). And even he had to take a hold when my dog tried to take off somewhere - however now I know he knows the leave it command. But my dog is a lab trying to emulate 'marley' when it comes to being around other dogs.

Edited August 25, 2013 by rubiton