Crazy Daisy Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Well my first breeding experience was horrible . It has been three months and I still wake up in the middle of the night crying sometimes. There were great times and I ended up with 10 amazing puppies who are each adored by their new owners and I have had so many updates with the owners raving about how great their puppies are socially, at training and to live with. I am proud so proud of that. However I am still so emotional every time I think about the experience as a whole. Here is a brief overview. I have been planning this litter for four years. I own both the bitch and stud dog and they are from amazing kennels that I have admired for over 15 years. I did every test and they passed with flying colours and had brilliant hip and elbow scores. They both have done well in showing and complemented each other well. We had a great mating and a text book pregnancy until 58 days. My bitch seemed to double in size over night. Within 24 hours we were at the vet having an ultrasound. We thought there were six pups and the vet was worried about the pups heart rates. We went home and were on watch for signs of labour. We went back for a scan and the heart rates had picked up but my bitch hadn't. Another 24 hours and my bitch wasn't looking well and her joints had started to swell. I was syringing lectade into her as she wouldn't eat or drink. She couldn't get comfortable and I felt she was trying to be brave when I was with her so as heart breaking as it was I sat outside the door and left her to try and settle. It broke my heart to hear her try to lie down. She stood the whole time!! I kept calling the vet and emergency vet to ask questions and thank goodness for the emergency vet at 3am talking to me or I would have gone insane! Everyone kept saying "just watch her it sounds like she is in labour", "any time now, just be patient", "the first stages can take a while". I was home on my own and wanted to be strong for my girl so would go outside and sit down and just sob, wipe my eyes and go back into her with a huge smile and tell her what a great job she was doing. I rubbed her back and tummy and made a sling to try and hold her belly to give her a little relief. We both didn't sleep for two days. The next day I couldn't take it and knew she had had enough too. I took her into the vet and we decided to give her a c/s. This is the part I feel so very terrible about. I started to have chest pains, a panic attack. I couldn't breathe and was shaking terribly. My girl kept looking at me and I was falling apart. The nurses made me go outside for a walk but I felt so dreadful leaving Aria alone. I had done this to her, I had wanted this litter and I had made the commitment to do this with her!! The last thing I said to the vet was "Whatever happens, save my girl". I couldn't go in for the c/s and stood outside the door. Then I heard the last thing anyone wants to hear. "Holy shit, get more help" Time just slowed as every horrible possibility went through my mind. After what felt like an eternity the most amazing sound, second only to the cry of my own children, was the scream of a tiny little baby being born. That's when the tears of the last couple of hours came and with every cry of another puppy being born I felt the pain in my chest ease. I heard them count and say there were 10 puppies! 10! I was expecting 6 not nearly double that! I had the courage to go in and help with the puppies but no one would say anything about Aria. All I was told was it wasn't good and they were doing everything they could. I couldn't bring myself to look into the theatre but the vet talked to me through the door. He said he had got her back but it was still to early to tell. What????? What do you mean got her back? It turns out the vet thinks she had a condition called maternal hydrops and said each puppy was surrounded my approx 1-2 litres of fluid! No wonder Aria was so big with 10 puppies that is almost 20 litres of fluid and she was a slight golden retriever to begin with! After the pups she looked like a skeleton. What had seemed like a good healthy weight gain had just been a huge belly of puppies and fluid. Her heart had stopped beating twice on the table and they had to shock her to bring her back. With that much fluid around it was very dangerous I am told. She was then monitored very closely as her heart beat was extremely rapid. It was decided to take her to the emergency specialist vet for overnight observation. Due to recent parvo outbreaks in the area I couldn't leave the puppies so took them home with me. It was now midnight, and my birthday, happy birthday to me. I now had to learn how to hand feed new born puppies. Not to mention toilet them and burp them. I didn't even know puppies burped! Thank goodness for my 'bible' by Dr Karen Hedburg. I had read it cover to cover and was set up for most just in case scenarios so had some bottles on hand and cotton balls for toileting. It took me 1.5 hours to hand feed all 10 puppies and I had to do this every two hours. After three days of no sleep it is a miracle they all survived. The next day I was able to bring Aria home and thank goodness for friends coming over to help for a couple of hours and my vet doing house calls and checking on the puppies at home. Aria was a brilliant mum but after her trauma there was no way I was leaving her. I slept on the couch next to her whelping box for three weeks. Surely there can't be more?? Yep, two bouts of mastitis with me doing massage, hot packs and cabbage leaves. Aria was on antibiotics so I had puppies with the runs on and off for five weeks and nearly loosing three of them with an unknown virus. There were many nights I went to sleep sitting up on the lounge with a puppy or two down my shirt to keep them warm and hope when I woke up they were still with me. Then there were the times all of them would somehow escape their run in the garage and 10 puppies had had a ball pooping and weeing all over the garage and rolled in it. Then there was the great times! They all weaned without a problem and thrived. We would all play outside for hours rolling around in the grass with 10 happy fat puppies. We found amazing homes for each and every one of them and they all were perfect little balls of fluff who were nearly fully toilet trained by 8 weeks when they left us. So would I do this again? Absobloodylutely NOT! Everyone says I will change my mind but I just can't see it. I am proud of the puppies I produced. All the research I have done says it is a rare condition that is suspected to happen when two lines don't blend well and most bitches go on to have a normal second litter. I have had breeders of 30 years who say they have never had a litter with so many issues. I don't see how I could ever put Aria through something like that again. I did this alone as a single mother of three children. There were lots of people that said they would help me but when it came down to it people had their own lives and it was very lonely and exhausting. My question is has anyone had a traumatic litter? How long till you got over the trauma of it? Aria is perfectly happy and healthy and loving life jumping on the trampoline and wrestling with the other dogs but I still struggle with the memories. Sorry this has been longer than expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I saw this once in one of my bitches. I bred her about 18 months later and there was no sign of it happening again. Ive only seeen it once in 35 years. This might help - every litter is different and if you breed long enough you get some horrible stories to tell. When you are dealing with life and death - literally holding it in your hands nothing is ever certain. http://www.kattwalkgolden.com/maternal_hydrops.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Crazy Daisy I just want to say, what a huge and amazing job you have done. Such a scary time followed by massively intense time of puppy rearing. Either task would be too much for many people. But you have done both. I haven't had such an intense time with a bitch. But I have done the other half, the had feeding a large litter with no sleep for days, then mastitis and upset tummies etc. it's so very draining. And very hard to keep normal family stuff going at the same time. I'm very, very glad to hear that your girl made it and is still with you. Kudos to your vets as well as you. Whether or not you can tackle the idea of breeding again one day might remain to be seen. Sometimes I think it's a but like human childbirth, after a few years the joyful memories override the stressful ones and we find the strength to try again. But if not, we still cherish the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underfoot Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I had a very traumatic first litter. Our bitch required an emergency c -section and when home back with the babies a few hours later she started to chew on the umbilical cords and chomped down on a few too hard. I rushed in and pulled her away but she had killed two babies by being so rough. I was advised to put a muzzle on her and let the other 12 puppies feed and then take her away for some rest and try again later. The repro vet believed she was still contracting and though she was giving birth to the puppies (still a little sedated from the c-section). I was terrified to leave her alone and once we removed the muzzle the next day she was a perfect mum. Much more settled and relaxed. I did not sleep for quite some time and did a lot of crying. Needless to say I de sexed her as I was too scared of a repeat EVEN THOUGH was told it was an accident and she did not know what she was doing. My heart goes out to you but it does get easier and better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I could relate to your litter. I'm so glad mum and babies came through it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I've had a few challenging litters, but I wouldn't use the word traumatic because I simply don't fall apart in these situations. Bitch had 8 pups, text book and then the wheels started to fall off....pups slowly dying and she was trying to smother them. She would pull them in and lay on them. Three weeks sleeping on the floor, crating her and allowing only feeding...we got through it. Three pups remained, one had only one eye as she injured it during her smothering. Bitch had 8 pups....three massive birth defects, dying pups. At the end, one remained and a bitch very ill. Removed the pup, put her on another mother, dosed up the mom who had a low grade infection that was undiagnosed. First time in my life I took a bitch to the vets during whelping and first time in my life I stayed awake for 4 straight days. Bitch carrying 8 pups. Wasn't well, throwing up dried blood. We insisted there was a problem, the vet disagreed. 24 hours later, the bitch is dead at the foot of the bed, with 8 dead pups in her belly. And most recently: Bitch whelps 7 pups. At 15 days, she's blown apart with mastitis leaving a gaping wound you could put two fists into. Remove her from the pups which we take over their care. Keep her dressed and clean whilst we wait for the mammary tissue to go down in swelling so she can be sewn up. A pup starts to fade, lose weight, fall weak. Joints swell and that cry that those of us have bred for a while, know that is not good and going to get worse. At 18 days, puppy is put down. A week later, another starts the same downward slide and the result is the same. Bitch is sewn up and recovering and pups are off to new homes, and the phone call that at 12 weeks, another pup undergoing exploratory for a bad cough/choking has not woke from anesthetic. Pup had an aortic arch....not a happy ending on that, and tragic for the new owners left devastated by it all. Unfortunately I have lots more stories....after 30 years, it's the way of things...but I also have many many stories of litters born and raised without issues. I keep breeding in spite of the bad stuff, because the good stuff outweighs it all. The continuation of my current breed relies on me rising above the possibility of all the bad things happening, in hopes of all the good stuff that might happen. At the end of the day, that's enough for me. If I wasn't 'breeder' material, I would have given up years ago when my BIS bitch died at 4 weeks gestation. There are breeders, and then there are breeders.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) I have had some reasonably horrific litters over the years that looking back you wonder how you got through. You cope because you have to. My last litter Chilli ended up with a c-section after green discharge over the course of a week. It is fair to say the operation didn't go well, normally I stay for the operations but I was escorted out. She took a while to recover but she did and everything went well until about 2 weeks when she decided not to fed them. Coped with that and then at 6 weeks they got kennel cough. Coped with that and then my house was in quarantine with suspected mange. These puppies had homes waiting for them but I couldn't home itchy puppies so the entire litter had to stay for quite some time until we worked out it was an allergy to something in the garden. There were 6 puppies and all my adult dogs being treated for mange. Sadly I can't even say this was my worst litter. Generally when something like this happens it takes me around 3yrs to have another litter. The first year is never again, the second year memories aren't quite as fresh and it doesn't seems so bad and by the third year I am planning my next litter. You do have to be tough to be a breeder. It is certainly not all cuddly puppies and happy people but there is something kinda cool about being the first person to hold a life in your hands and watching them grow and mature and then age and then being with them when they pass. Edited August 11, 2013 by cowanbree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) Sounds so dreadful Crazy Daisy and all the others - I wish I had a dollar for all the times I have said NEVER AGAIN but somehow you try again - my worst experience was to have my beautiul little girl at 51 days deliver 7 perfect little premature babies on my bed and watch them all die being born too early - found out it was a drop in progesterone and she did go on to have 3 more litters with help all of which were perfect - but at present I have no more girls to breed and don't know if I will do it all again or not - know how you feel Daisy - its gut wrenching when things go wrong. You ask how long it will take to get over it - you may never fully but it will stop hurting so much in time I am sure - after my girl lost her litter it took my girl 3 weeks to get over it - when she was fine again I started to stop feeling so bad too. Just be happy you were able to get through it - but what an introduction to breeding . Edited August 10, 2013 by mini girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I have had some reasonably horrific litters over the years that looking back you wonder how you got through. You cope because you have to. My last litter Chilli ended up with a c-section after green discharge over the course of a week. It is fair to say the operation didn't go well, normally I stay for the operations but I was escorted out. She took a while to recover but she did and everything went well until about 2 weeks when she decided not to fed them. Coped with that and then at 6 weeks they got kennel cough. Coped with that and then my house was in quarantine with suspected mange. These puppies had homes waiting for them but I couldn't home itchy puppies so the entire litter had to stay for quite some time until we worked out it was an allergy to something in the garden. There were 6 puppies and all my adult dogs being treated for mange. Sadly I can't even say this was my worst litter. Generally when something like this happens it takes me around 3yrs to have another litter. The first year is never again, the second year memories aren't quite as fresh and it doesn't seems so bad and by the third year I am planning my next litter. You do have to be tough to be a breeder. It is certainly not all cuddly puppies and happy people but there is something kinda cool about being the first person to hold a life and your hands and watching them grow and mature and then age and then being with them when they pass. Beautifully said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Daisy Posted August 11, 2013 Author Share Posted August 11, 2013 Thank you so much for your replies. It's funny because I have had dogs all my life, been a dog groomer for 16 years and this was always a dream to have a litter of my own. Well at least I can say I tried. It was a shame because I did what I set out to do and that was breed something for the show ring that was better than what I had which is what we all do, try to improve the breed. But I couldn't keep the puppy, every time I looked at him I cried and it brought back the memories and I thought it wasn't fair on him. It is so lovely to see photos of them all and how happy they are with their new families. That is the best part :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Can't even imagine the horror of all that for you & your dog. Had a couple of dead pups but not many in ratio of how many I have bred. For the future after that you would be able to either cope with anything or totally crack up if there were any problems. In your shoes I would never breed again. Would be not much pleasure or joy in that experience. Just sheer relief that pups & mum survived. You must have been so tired too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenWei Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Hey CD. That is such an awful awful experience to go through. I hope I NEVER experience something like that. I have only bred two litters. My first I had the mastitis and a low grade infection with mum, she wouldn't eat much for the last 3 weeks of her pregnancy and for the first week or two without me hand feeding her. By the time she had her pups she was quite skinny. The second litter, my goldens, was straight forward however we lost the first puppy born because of a cleft palate. These are nothing like what you have experienced and if I were you, I don't know if I would ever do it again either. Having said that, you were probably just very unlucky and, being so rare, it probably wouldn't happen again, but I know that you would be thinking that it would if you ever mated Aria again, or another bitch. I have had the same breed as you for almost 20 years now. There were issues with my fourth golden, they were so severe I thought I would never have another again, he was PTS at 9 months and if it wasn't for some wise words of the breeder of my third golden, I wouldn't of had two of the beautiful goldens I now have today, nor would I have had the gorgeous litter of puppies two of which are currently playing happily together at my feet. She said to me, and I am no way a religious person at all, "God sends his greatest tests to those who matter because he doesn’t want weak people looking after his animals." Things can still go to sh&t, and with both my beautiful goldens I have raised I thought that they would have the same issue, I was so nervous with them I couldn't relax until after they were about 9 months of age. The two puppies we have here, I am so careful with what I am feeding them, and the same memories are coming back on if they, or any of the 6 puppies we had will have the same issue or not. It took me so long to find a stud, I did so much research and I hope I chose the right one, but we can only try our best. You have done an amazing job with your babies, you should be proud of what you have achieved with your first litter. I saw pics of your babies and they were absolutely gorgeous. Time heals, it's been just over 2 years since we had our boy PTS, I still cry sometimes when I think of what he went through, not so much about what we went through now, I know we made the right decision, just knowing the amount of pain HE would of had to go through is what is so tough to handle for me. You will get through this, it will get easier, I promise. *hugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 (edited) My first litter wasn't an easy one. Mum had a normal pregnancy but she ended up needing a c/s (the only one she has ever had out of four litters)due to Uterine horn torsion. The only sign anything was wrong was that she was shivering a tiny little bit. She was bright, happy, eating and drinking. All I can say is thank god for my wonderful vet. Matilda didn't want much to do with the puppies after the first week. I ended up having to place her in the box to feed them and weaned them earlier simply from necessity and did all the toileting myself. One of the little boys was a piggy eater and was always snorting milk so I was forced to clear his nose after every single feed but he didn't get sick even once so my vigilance paid off. The litter was born in the middle of a Canberra winter (it snowed that year, it was freezing!) and because mum refused to sleep in the box I had a hell of a time keeping them warm. I ended up opening up the whelping box and they would crawl out and curl up with me on the bed I had on the floor. It was hard, I was exhausted, grumpy, sore. I'd lost my heart dog and first Sammy 2 weeks before the puppies were born and it was my birthday too :laugh: but I'd do it again. Edited August 12, 2013 by Bjelkier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Breeding certainly isn't all fluffy bunnies and unicorns, and you just don't know if you can take it or not until you've done it. Being your first litter it is really sad you had such a bad experience because in so many ways it sounds like you're just the sort of person that wants to do it right and should be breeding dogs. If you breed for long enough you'll have disasters, sometimes I think mother nature is being really vicious when she visits these disasters on people who are doing the right thing instead of puppy farmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Daisy Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 Thanks everyone for your kind words, I really appreciate it. I was scared to say anything thinking that I must have done something wrong but going over everything I can see it was just a case of bad luck. Maybe your friend was right GW. I had to have three c/s with my own children due to mother nature throwing me curve balls so maybe she thinks I could handle a sucky first litter too lol. I don't know if the amnesia is the same but at the moment I am saying never again. I wouldn't wish this experience on any responsible breeder but I wonder if a puppy farmer's first litter cost upward of $6k if that would deter them!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 My intro wasn't crash hot either but it sure is a test to see if you really want to keep going. Sucks big time when it happens to people who have tried to do the right thing. Pretty sure we all know what the out come would be for the poor buggers who are unfortunate to end up in the hands of puppy farmers - they won't be out of pocket... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I don't mean to be insensitive, but sometimes my curiosity gets the better of sensitivity. So if apologies are due, please accept them. I've just come across a verbatum repeat of your text, with photos attached, in another blog. See: http://leemakennels.com/blog/dog-breeding/dog-breeding-isnt-always-pretty/#comment-125559 Your avitar does not look like a GR. Were you at one time a GR breeder? Or has this story come from somewhere else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I don't mean to be insensitive, but sometimes my curiosity gets the better of sensitivity. So if apologies are due, please accept them. I've just come across a verbatum repeat of your text, with photos attached, in another blog. See: http://leemakennels....#comment-125559 Your avitar does not look like a GR. Were you at one time a GR breeder? Or has this story come from somewhere else? from the blog : I share a story from another Australian breeder on breeding a litter of golden retrievers, and how it went anything but according to planned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 The blog author is Leema on DOL :) The blog post is dated AFTER the OP's post. I don't see anything suspicious here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 The blog author is Leema on DOL :) The blog post is dated AFTER the OP's post. I don't see anything suspicious here. CD has had /has Goldens, AFAIK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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