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Progress.... Or Not...

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Natsu chan

Natsu chan

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Paddles, if I may? I noticed this because it is the familiar cry of every judge who I go under.....walk faster. :laugh: You have big dogs walk like you're on a mission. Then they wonder what the hell you're up to and pay attention. Also, when they sniff call their names and when they look up reward, but down the drain not out to the side. :)

Hope that was okay, they do look like big happy chappies. No recent videos here there's no one to film them! :)

Edited by Natsu chan
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paddles

paddles

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we often play every now and then, I didn't for this, deliberately. (you don't need to see me look like a loon... well more so than I already do...) hmmm, you are right, I was dawdling again... we were in this instance, trying for "trial length" of work...

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RubyStar

RubyStar

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Don't worry about looking like a loon, that's what dog training is all about laugh.gif My advice, which you are quite welcome to take or ignore, is get some short attentive heelwork happening with exciting play (or whatever they find rewarding) before trying to get trial length heelwork. My littlie has never done a full heelwork pattern yet, we are still keeping it fun and short!

OK, I'll be brave, and hope it will maybe inspire you to get goofy on video laugh.gif Feel free to pick it to pieces! This is of my littlie who isn't trialling obedience yet (she's actually my mum's dog but I steal her for the fun stuff laugh.gif)

We are having forging issues, and issues with her getting under my feet especially in fast pace. I stepped on her in fast pace a few weeks ago and it seems to have cured it embarrass.giflaugh.gif Edit: just to clarify, the stepping on her was completely accidental :p I've worked hard on getting her to accept play (personal play and toys) for reward as I don't want her reliant on food like my Labs are (it also really helps that she naturally loves to play anyway).

After my awesome private lesson with Denise Fenzi, I have a plan of attack for her forging (and her fronts - one session of what Denise advised and it is already working magic!! :worship:)

Edited by RubyStar
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Tassie

Tassie

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Love it RS .. and so jealous of you having Denise over there.

Paddles ... I would say the same as RS. Short, fast, high quality, excited reward - excited however you're rewarding ... rinse and repeat. and not too much at any one time. Gradually build up to a trial length pattern only when you and the dogs are ready.

One thing you can do to get your own walking more exciting is to find some nice brisk music, and walk to that.

I'm a fan of platform and disc work to make sure the dog knows exactly where 'heel' is - and how to manoeuvre his/her rear end to get there and stay there. And the nice thing about that is that you can do it in the living room :D .

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The Spotted Devil

The Spotted Devil

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Hi paddles - the first few seconds of each heeling pattern look pretty good :thumbsup: I also like his super energy and dose of "crazy" in that first video - while it may feel exhausting they are exactly the dogs I love to have in my class....like I say about my Dally, at least you can channel the crazy INTO something :D

I think you might be falling into the age old trap (which all of us do from time to time!) of lumping behaviours together. Heeling is a very complex behaviour and I think that's why dogs switch off quickly because they don't really understand how to earn the reward. I don't think it's inherently boring at all, just more complex than we realise. Try to split heeling into one thing at a time and practice that. You can play stationary "find heel" games to see if he understands what "heel" means. If you want to work on duration, just do circles in both directions - no turns or drops/stands/sits - but you need to build up slowly....2 steps, reward, 5 steps reward, 3 steps reward, 6 steps, reward and so on - he will never know when to expect his reward. Any lack of focus and the game ends - don't pat him to get his attention or put food in front of his face as he is just being rewarded for switching off.

I have added a video of Ziggy - at the start I am playing a "catch it!" food game with him to get him engaged. He plays tug really well for agility but it's not really his thing for obedience - burns up all his mental energy in one hit :laugh: Then I did some right turns to practice our collective footwork - so I was concentrating on one thing that we (read ME!!!) were having problems with. Also it teaches Zig to pay attention to the footwork as it may result in a reward! Notice a nice brisk pace for a dog that is comfortable doing a lovely extended trot and he is of a similar build to your dog. I think I was also practicing keeping my shoulders relaxed and my body upright so I wasn't giving Zig confusing signals. I don't use a lead at all anymore with young dogs because 1) It gets tangled 2) I don't have enough hands and 3) I find it is too easy to use the lead to guide - I would rather the dog learn their job independent of me if that makes sense!

This is training Em when she was about 6 months old. At the start I am just playing with her, having fun, asking for a sit and releasing to play again. After a few false starts I do a very bit of basic heeling with her - notice how often I'm clicking and treating. I was also dropping a lot of food on the deck :laugh: Later I do a bit of work with Zig but he is such a different dog - not big on the hand to hand combat that Em and I do as a warm up!

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Tassie

Tassie

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Lovely TSD. Though I notice you didn't have the cat actually doing the perch work - obviously the feline role is just supervising, and checking on the equipment :laugh: .

On the complexity of heeling - at the Kamal Fernandez seminar last year, Kamal was listing 26 :eek: components that go to make up precision heeling. His view was that it was beneficial to train each of these components separately, and then start putting them together. So backing up what you're saying about splitting not lumping. (The component training is also easier, as a lot of them can be trained indoors/in a small area.)

As TSD says, keep up the good work, paddles - and have fun! I should add that it's taken me 20 years to learn how to have the best fun doing obedience with my dog - well - with the boy anyway. The feral agility girl still doesn't believe in it :laugh: .

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huski

huski

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I agree with what others have said, take a few steps back (figuratively speaking) and work on having them really understand where heel position is before you add any forward motion.

Once the dogs are nailing heel position when you are stationary you can add a few steps.

This is when I also test them by heeling backwards, side ways, adding turns etc.

Think about the style of heel work you like and how you'd like it to look and work towards that one step at a time. You have to get the foundations there first, or the dog won't truly understand the exercise and that is when it falls apart.

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paddles

paddles

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I agree with what others have said, take a few steps back (figuratively speaking) and work on having them really understand where heel position is before you add any forward motion.

Once the dogs are nailing heel position when you are stationary you can add a few steps.

This is when I also test them by heeling backwards, side ways, adding turns etc.

Think about the style of heel work you like and how you'd like it to look and work towards that one step at a time. You have to get the foundations there first, or the dog won't truly understand the exercise and that is when it falls apart.

Oooooo I went out this morning, and tried going sidewards (we have practiced backwards along the wall before...) so here is the scenario... (don't laugh too hard) I have him in heel.. I'm asking him to look at me (we've done a couple of focus exercises, but.. well we've discussed milo's focus issues before) I step sidewards... he looks at me... stands up... goes and attempts to wander off.. whoops.. leash... hmmm... oh, ok.. conversation then goes like this..

Milo *staring off into the distance* "I'm sure there has been a cat there"

Heidi *looking at milo* "milo, working"

Milo *continuing to stare off into the distance* "huh? we are?"

Heidi " milo.. I have treats... I have bite rag... "

Milo... *finally looking at me* "you do?"

Milo... Hmmm.. I'll take a step towards you.... and continue past you... "I'm sure there is a cat over there"

Heidi "milo, heel"

at this point milo reluctantly moves around me into heel... *reward* step sidewards 1/2 step again...

REPEAT!

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Red Fox

Red Fox

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I think you will find the most success in practising stationary focus first, then shaping the active heel work one step at a time. You can do this quite easily with a clicker or marker word, using a toy or food as a reward. Does you dog know how to flip into heel position? That can be a good place to start, along with teaching a straight and focussed front. Better to get 5 perfectly focussed steps only then reward, than 5 out of 100 in one session. It is much clearer for the dog IMO.

I don't have many recent vids, but this is one of my dog preparing for her BH test (training the basic IPO obedience pattern), which she passed in May this year. The break in the video is where she was broken off for a tug reward.

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fuzzy82

fuzzy82

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I agree with what others have said, take a few steps back (figuratively speaking) and work on having them really understand where heel position is before you add any forward motion.

Once the dogs are nailing heel position when you are stationary you can add a few steps.

This is when I also test them by heeling backwards, side ways, adding turns etc.

Think about the style of heel work you like and how you'd like it to look and work towards that one step at a time. You have to get the foundations there first, or the dog won't truly understand the exercise and that is when it falls apart.

Oooooo I went out this morning, and tried going sidewards (we have practiced backwards along the wall before...) so here is the scenario... (don't laugh too hard) I have him in heel.. I'm asking him to look at me (we've done a couple of focus exercises, but.. well we've discussed milo's focus issues before) I step sidewards... he looks at me... stands up... goes and attempts to wander off.. whoops.. leash... hmmm... oh, ok.. conversation then goes like this..

Milo *staring off into the distance* "I'm sure there has been a cat there"

Heidi *looking at milo* "milo, working"

Milo *continuing to stare off into the distance* "huh? we are?"

Heidi " milo.. I have treats... I have bite rag... "

Milo... *finally looking at me* "you do?"

Milo... Hmmm.. I'll take a step towards you.... and continue past you... "I'm sure there is a cat over there"

Heidi "milo, heel"

at this point milo reluctantly moves around me into heel... *reward* step sidewards 1/2 step again...

REPEAT!

When this happens with my dog, I wait for them to unfixate even the slightest amount (glance away from what they're fixating on, or look back at me wondering why we're not doing anything), then mark and reward. Usually the dog goes straight back to fixating, then just wait again. Reward for unfixating.

Usually it only takes 3-4 times of that before they're ready to get back to work. They realise that fixating isn't rewarding, but focusing on me is.

Other times I will mark and then take a few steps back and encourage them to follow, then reward when they catch up. This is handy for when we're too close to whatever the distraction is, and I know they're unlikely to be able to focus at that distance. But once you've back up, you can then start moving forward again, stopping for each step, wait for focus, reward, take another step, repeat. We can usually get past some huge distractions such as cats and kids on bikes like this, without the dog leaving my side.

We've done this enough times now that when we see big distractions on walks, the dogs don't fixate, but just have a look at it and then look back at me, which I can then reward. So I'm training the habit of distraction = look to me.

Edited by fuzzy82
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paddles

paddles

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I think you will find the most success in practising stationary focus first, then shaping the active heel work one step at a time. You can do this quite easily with a clicker or marker word, using a toy or food as a reward. Does you dog know how to flip into heel position? That can be a good place to start, along with teaching a straight and focussed front. Better to get 5 perfectly focussed steps only then reward, than 5 out of 100 in one session. It is much clearer for the dog IMO.

I don't have many recent vids, but this is one of my dog preparing for her BH test (training the basic IPO obedience pattern), which she passed in May this year. The break in the video is where she was broken off for a tug reward.

I love that focus! I really must do more focus work. I do some, and we do blockwork etc. but really... (as is no doubt apparent)not enough! I love that.

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