Steve Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) / Edited September 23, 2016 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajacadoo Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Agree Steve... The only time I've had Uterine Inertia, was a bitch I gave calcium supplements too during her pregnancy... The only time I've had OCD in a different bitch, (same breed, ACD), was when I was supplementing her with large doses of calcium, (on the breeders recommendations)... Will not touch the stuff now, unless needed, and under Vet's recommendations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 When you supplement calcium this result in higher blood calcium levels, so there is no need for the dog's body to release parathyroid hormone. If the bitch is supplemented and maintains high calcium levels in her bloodstream, the parathyroid glands shut down. They are no longer able to respond to sudden declines in blood calcium levels which is wha happens throughout whelping and lactation. During the whelping process blood calcium levels drop as the bitch stops eating and begins producing milk. Since the parathyroid glands are no longer functional because they havent needed to be due to the high level of oral calcium provided the amount of calcium available for uterine contractions isnt available, and its why you see primary uterine inertia - treated by injections into the bloodstream of calcium. During lactation, calcium demands are also much higher - especially at around 3 weeks as the pups go through a massive growth stage. The net result is lowered serum calcium, lack of parathyroid hormone, and possible eclampsia. Calcium absorption and the ability to use it are affected by dietary concentrations of vitamin D and phosphorus, magnesium and zinc.During pregnancy,lactation and weaning a well balanced diet with no mineral supplementation is better than a supplement.If you don't give a calcium supplement then the parathyroid hormone will react normally when it needs to so that it quickly takes calcium from the bones into the bloodstream to do what it needs to do because it knows how to do so. Too much calcium in the diet can result in a lack of parathyroid hormone and you run the risk of too much if you give only calcium as a supplement rather than a balanced diet which gives the right amounts and ratio of everything it needs to work properly A lack of parathyroid hormone can cause hypocalcemia and hypocalcemia can cause eclampsia and contribute to primary uterine inertia.Dietary supplementation during pregnancy and lactation can cause eclampsia and contribute to dystocia. The fact is inertia and eclampsia are not caused by a lack of calcium they are caused by an inability for the body to be able to access large amounts of calcium when it needs it. If you supplement the body forgets how to turn the hormone on and that's where you get a problem. You create a greater risk of eclampsia if you give extra calcium than you do if you don't. Giving it post whelping is the same as if you were giving it when she is pregnant. My advice is don't do it. I totally agree with the not giving additional whilst in whelp but there is no way I would whelp a Bull Breed litter without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) You're right Steve. Supplemented Calcium, when other trace minerals are in deficiency, won't help and is potentially harmful. Magnesium in particular is often lacking. I know some breeders feed bitches Divetelac or Biolac puppy milk. But I have used Palastart lamb and kid milk replacer with great results, especially considering quantity and economy with larger breeds without sacrificing quality. The benefit of milk replacers being that they have a more balanced mineral base that you can achieve by just topping up calcium alone. Edited August 9, 2013 by Alyosha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) ; Edited September 23, 2016 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 So, you are all saying do not supplement with calcium post whelping. Are there any studies on whether the incidence of eclampsia is increased without calcium supplement> Eclampsia is a life threatening problem. I would want to know that eclampsia would NEVER result from not supplementing POST whelping. The only time my dogs have calcium is post whelping. They eat a balance diet. Theoretically I should not have a problem with eclampsia. Theoretically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 Steve, an injection for eclampsia is all very well - providing the bitch is alive to be injected. "Now the treatment for inertia and eclampsia is an INJECTION of calcium to bring the bloodstream back to having enough calcium so it is easy to see why people think that if they provide extra calcium during pregnancy or lactation that it will prevent a problem but the science tells us it causes the problem and a supp will prevent the hormone turning on when it needs to because the body has forgotten how ." Link to studies please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Steve, an injection for eclampsia is all very well - providing the bitch is alive to be injected. "Now the treatment for inertia and eclampsia is an INJECTION of calcium to bring the bloodstream back to having enough calcium so it is easy to see why people think that if they provide extra calcium during pregnancy or lactation that it will prevent a problem but the science tells us it causes the problem and a supp will prevent the hormone turning on when it needs to because the body has forgotten how ." Link to studies please? I don't have links to studies but the vets I worked with said to never supplement prior to whelping for the reasons Steve has stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 I am not talking about supplementing PRIOR TO WHELPING, I am talking about supplementing POST WHELPING. I never supplement prior to whelping, and in any case, I have never heard of a bitch with eclampsia PRIOR to whelping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I agreed with Steve as I thought she was trying to make a point of not focussing on calcium lane as a supplement, when it is tied in with so many other vitamins and minerals. Too much is as bad, if not worse, than too little. Which is why we don't supplement while pregnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) . Edited September 23, 2016 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) . Edited September 23, 2016 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillypilly Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 To me having calcium on hand is essential when whelping at home or in a shelter. We have both calcium injectable and syrup on hand (also oxytocin) and have used for many whelpings - to me essential items on a whelping trolley. My thoughts are if you have always used calcium post partum and have had no problems with hypocalcaemia, then keep doing what works for you. I have never had a problem post whelp using Sandoz syrup combined with a good diet. xx LP xx NSW Animal Rescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 And according to surveys I have read, it can be caused by a dog having no stored calcium. I have no way of knowing tnat. I am not interested in supplementing pre whelping. And, as no one has offered results of proper studies, I shall continue to supplement during and post whelping, as I have read studies on that which made sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) . Edited September 23, 2016 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missymoo Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 after my fright this litter, I will be supplementing post whelp. Not in huge amounts, just added extra...I nearly lost my girl and not about to do that again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 1376132246[/url]' post='6273995']To me having calcium on hand is essential when whelping at home or in a shelter. We have both calcium injectable and syrup on hand (also oxytocin) and have used for many whelpings - to me essential items on a whelping trolley. My thoughts are if you have always used calcium post partum and have had no problems with hypocalcaemia, then keep doing what works for you. I have never had a problem post whelp using Sandoz syrup combined with a good diet. xx LP xx NSW Animal Rescue Not sure but I think DURING whelping may be different than pre- or post-. Don't some sources (including Myra) say a hit of Ca stimulates contractions? I used the old vanilla ice cream between pups trick this last litter, and ten pups were out in less than 8 hours. No clue about whether the ice cream worked, and if it did, not clear whether it was the Ca or the sugar did the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) [ Edited September 23, 2016 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) ' Edited September 23, 2016 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 so love her and leave her to do it and she wont need calcium or oxytocin Sometimes. Sometimes they do need help no matter how relaxed they are how loved they are or how much you just let them do it themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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