Jed Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 As the title suggests, I withold calcium until the litter is whelped. From then I give the bitch the appropriate dose of calcium syrup until weaning. Went to (a different ) vet yesterday, to by the syrup. The girl manning the counter asked me (conversationally) what I wanted it for. When I told her, she said calcium shouldn't be necessary, and what was the bitch fed? I told her a raw diet which she didn't seem able to grasp. She then told me the bitch should be fed dry food, and no calcium. And that at 3 weeks post whelping, the bitch didn't need calcium. I pointed out that 3 weeks was flagged as being an eclampsia danger time. she agreed with me I said I thought raw, with calcium for bones,would have more calcium than dry food. She didn't seem to know, so I paid and left. Has the opinion on calcium changed, or was it just her? Do experienced breeders give calcium post whelping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Sounds very much NOT what I have been taught ..perhaps the girl has not much experience ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Also highly possible that she has been trained in "pet nutrition"... Usually by one of the big companies like Hills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 My old vets wouldn't sell me Calcium until it was required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 curious, trisven, when was calcium "required", according to the vet? I thought she was perhaps pushing the dry food on to me, but am not sure. Most vets etc push giving the bitch calcium, and having an eclampsia about 6 years ago never again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjosa Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I would not be without Sandoz when I have a bitch nursing. It is the first thing that is bought when getting prepared for the whelping, cannot tell you how happy I was when Sandoz came on the market instead of messing around trying to get tablets or powdered calcium into them,my girls over the years just love the syrup like a lolly to them. I have been breeding since the early 1970's and at all times have had calcuim of some sort available to bitches, having been guided in the early days by some top breeders. I am guessing that girl at the front desk has been told to push for sales of Kibble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Agree that she's probably been "educated" about dry food only - shame some people will believe her and potentially some bitches could die. Always have calcium and I do tend to over do it but never really had an issue. 5ml per meal (20ml per day) at a minimum up to double this when they hit the peak 3-4 week mark. Stopping calcium at 3 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Geez stopping calcium at three weeks is a worry. I have been told not to feed it as long as the bitch has a correct diet - either dry or raw, and only to use it if they become unwell/ get milk fever. I have it on hand and gave it during whelping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 On one of the breeding forums I am on ('Canine fertility, reproduction and neonatal issues' on FB which is part owned by Myra Savant Harris and includes quite a number of vets as members) calcium is considered almost a must for during whelping and lactation (but never before whelping). One of the types of calcium suggested there is Citracal tablets (from the chemist) as the form is easily absorbed without food. I used these for my recent litter. They suggest supplementing for the whole of lactation and cite examples of eclampsia at 6 weeks etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 IMHO OhSoswift, by the time the dog is showing symptoms of milk fever, it is too late for oral calcium!! Thanks, guys, back to what I was doing. Another piece of incorrect information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Yes I agree, however that is the info I was given when I asked. I think the idea was being looked at more from a treatment rather than a prevention. I am still not really sure myself, I haven't supplemneted as that is that advice I was given from a breeder and vet who has and breeds my breed, so I went with that. IT is something I ponder still though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missymoo Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 jed read my thread titled "Eclampsia' I wont be without calcium again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 As the title suggests, I withold calcium until the litter is whelped. From then I give the bitch the appropriate dose of calcium syrup until weaning. Went to (a different ) vet yesterday, to by the syrup. The girl manning the counter asked me (conversationally) what I wanted it for. When I told her, she said calcium shouldn't be necessary, and what was the bitch fed? I told her a raw diet which she didn't seem able to grasp. She then told me the bitch should be fed dry food, and no calcium. And that at 3 weeks post whelping, the bitch didn't need calcium. I pointed out that 3 weeks was flagged as being an eclampsia danger time. she agreed with me I said I thought raw, with calcium for bones,would have more calcium than dry food. She didn't seem to know, so I paid and left. Has the opinion on calcium changed, or was it just her? Do experienced breeders give calcium post whelping? I give additional calcium for at least the first few days until the bitch is well settled ( very common with SBT's to require it for at least the first few days ), I then monitor very closely for eclampsia. I wouldn't be listening to any girl at the vets counter and probably not too many vets either, given the willingness to promote dry as the cure all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) Missy Moo, I have had it twice. Over 30 years. I did read your thread. The second time was a disaster - emergency vet - 40 mins -bitch kept fitting, high temperature stopped breathing as we went through the front doors. She walked down the hallway in the house- she was fine at the start and had the wobbles by the end. Locked everyone up, and rushed her to the vet. Lucky to save her. I check all bitches with pups twice a day!!! Nervous? Ya betcha!! WR - yep, agree with the extra, and I give it when they are whelping too. I though what she was saying was a bit but it is always good to check. Advice re calcium has officially changed 3 times since I began breeding.. Once every vet prescribed calcium during pregnancy, but now we have seen the light, less milk fever. Incidentally, I had another stiff pup. He was 2 days old, and Ithoght a little cold and falling behind, so I upped the heat, and gave him a honey drink. He perked up, and then was getting a syringe full of wombaroo. A short while after the honey water, I went in and he was stiff. Slapped him around to get him going. He is 3 weeks now, no further problems. So it is probably not due to glycaema. Edited August 7, 2013 by Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 As the title suggests, I withold calcium until the litter is whelped. From then I give the bitch the appropriate dose of calcium syrup until weaning. Went to (a different ) vet yesterday, to by the syrup. The girl manning the counter asked me (conversationally) what I wanted it for. When I told her, she said calcium shouldn't be necessary, and what was the bitch fed? I told her a raw diet which she didn't seem able to grasp. She then told me the bitch should be fed dry food, and no calcium. And that at 3 weeks post whelping, the bitch didn't need calcium. I pointed out that 3 weeks was flagged as being an eclampsia danger time. she agreed with me I said I thought raw, with calcium for bones,would have more calcium than dry food. She didn't seem to know, so I paid and left. Has the opinion on calcium changed, or was it just her? Do experienced breeders give calcium post whelping? this is something I dont know about - nursing bitches and eclampsia. When you say you feed raw, wouldn't you just add extra calcium rich food to her diet when she's producing milk? Why do you need the syrup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Generally I find mine don't need it. If mum seems restless I will try some but that is so rare here, only ever happened twice. With dogs that have big litters I would think it can't do any harm past whelping as there is a limit to how much food their stomach can hold & feeding a big litter is more draining. Opinion keeps changing but research suggests it can interfere with natural production of calcium giving it before the bitch has the pups. The most important thing is to recognise when there is a problem & act fast. Sometime a breeder can do & feed everything right as advised or recommended & eclampsia can happen while others may be a bit slack or less knowledgeable & it never happens. Vet nurses aren't expert on breeding or nutrition but they are trained on what to do in a medical emergency/issue concerning them as in whelp problems or starving dog needing treatment. The nutrition advice was her personal opinion/preference. Its a case of doing your research & then forming an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I usually give it after whelping , esp around the 3-6 week mark ... as well as good calcium rich food . After having one case of it ..that was enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I give it during whelping - after the first pup and from then on between each one. But I don't give it after, as I give milk replacer a couple of times a day to encourage extra fluid and mineral intake - and it has high available calcium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) I give it during whelping - after the first pup and from then on between each one. But I don't give it after, as I give milk replacer a couple of times a day to encourage extra fluid and mineral intake - and it has high available calcium. I go the same whilst whelping & do for the first couple of days and then basically give the bitches frequent powered milk drinks until they are ready to wean. Edited August 8, 2013 by WreckitWhippet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Danni Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I give Sandoz during whelping and maybe for the day after. I don't give it after that, instead, I give my girl calcium rich foods like goats milk, ice cream, custards etc. She gets a daily egg flip made with goats milk for the first 2 weeks post whelping. While I don't continue to give oral calcium, I certainly would if I thought that I had an issue that calcium would help with and I always have Sandoz on hand. I am also a member of Myra's group on FB and it is a wealth of information! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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