Can Remote Control Pulse Collars Be Used Humanely

[snake catcher]

These are a great idea and work well to stop dogs from attacking wildlife and thus avoid the snakebite that comes with this behaviour.

I realise everyone should train their dog and spend the time on doing so.

But there are a lot of people who own dogs that haven't trained them.

Do these dogs have to potentially get bitten by a snake because the collars are deemed cruel?

I'm having a FB argument so I thought Id make a thread here and get some experienced and expert opinions.

So the main question is, are they ok to use when used properly as the potential for cruelty is certainly there.

[Luke GSP]

These are a great idea and work well to stop dogs from attacking wildlife and thus avoid the snakebite that comes with this behaviour.

I realise everyone should train their dog and spend the time on doing so.

But there are a lot of people who own dogs that haven't trained them.

Do these dogs have to potentially get bitten by a snake because the collars are deemed cruel?

I'm having a FB argument so I thought Id make a thread here and get some experienced and expert opinions.

So the main question is, are they ok to use when used properly as the potential for cruelty is certainly there.

Every training tool has the potential for cruelty (at varying degrees, psychological, physical or both) if not used properly. An ecollar used correctly, in the right situation with a dog that is suited to it is in no way cruel IMO. Believe me, as an owner who has had to make the dash to get snake bite testing done a couple of times lucky for me, my dog has always come out on top and managed to get the snake before it got him, (hoping his luck doesn't run out) I would welcome a legal "snake proofing" service for the good of my dog and the snakes. My problem wouldn't be the use of the collar, it would be trying to get hold of a cooperative snake

Great question, but i would expect that this thread will quickly degenerate in to an e collars are evil thread, much the same as most other threads that mention them.

[snake catcher]

Thank you so much for the answer.

Common sense is such a rare thing.

A bluetongue is used for the training.

Edited August 5, 2013 by snake catcher

[rubyroo]

I agree with lukegsp. Anything in the wrong hands has the potential to be harmful. If people take the time to educate themselves and understand the benefits of the life saving tool it can be, it might not be perceived as such an evil tool. Just keep in mind that dogs know the difference between a snake and a lizard as they have a different smell, so you may end up training avoidance from the wrong animal. A fresh dead snake (or road kill) is generally the best for training. Also the dog needs to understand the command before a collar is introduced it is only an enforcer, You are the teacher. Good luck, very interested how your sessions go!

[snake catcher]

In that case, one species of snake would smell different to the next species.

not all species of snake smells alike as their habits and diets differ..

The bluetongue used could be kept in a snake enclosure prior to training maybe.

[Luke GSP]

In that case, one species of snake would smell different to the next species.

not all species of snake smells alike as their habits and diets differ..

The bluetongue used could be kept in a snake enclosure prior to training maybe.

Nice idea with the blue tongue but I reckon that ruby is right and you'd end up with a dog that avoided bluetongues. I think a lot depends on the dog, my female tends to stay out of trouble, but my male is in any thing, full bore. When he had the last red belly black snake. the female was there but didn't touch it by the look of her afterwards and recalled by voice. My male only came back to his "special whistle" that he always comes back to, carrying the front half (about 70cm) of the snake. He has also had to be called off of a snake that he had obviously "had" as it was damaged. but he was still trying to find the right angle whilst the snake was striking out. (now that was worrying, had to get the wife to use the whistle whilst I tried to get the snakes attention so that the dog didn't turn to us and get struck in the side of the head ) Some dogs have natural snake sense, others don't. A friend of mine was fishing and his dog would not walk down a particular bank which was odd, all became apparent a few seconds later when my mate noticed an adult brown snake deep in the grass. I think to get the best results, you would need to use either dead snakes that you could have inanimate or moving (by the use of a pull string) or live snakes in wire enclosures for the protection of both the dog and the snake. Some of the enclosures could be fairly small to represent a static snake but others would have to be big enough that the snake could react within the enclosure but still be separated from the dog. Some dogs wouldn't "go for" a curled up snake, but they might if it reared up. so you would need to proof all to be sure, Smell, static and moving and probably with a mixture of types of snake. Personally I would want the dog to be conditioned to leave the snake well alone without a command, as in reality the dog is probably going to be near it, or smell it before I get the chance see it myself and issue a command. You would need a very understanding herper and some decent engineering to make it happen, but I think it could be a great thing if done correctly.

[rubyroo]

In that case, one species of snake would smell different to the next species.

not all species of snake smells alike as their habits and diets differ..

The bluetongue used could be kept in a snake enclosure prior to training maybe.

Interesting, maybe it's the toxicity of the venom? My bitch is collar smart, won't go near a snake if I'm there but I don't trust her for a minute if I'm not! My dog is so different, I've seen him about 5m away from a snake and try and detour even further away, needless to say his training worked really well (and a brilliant detector of something not right). Still training the young dog, I also scream like a crazy lady and that seems to be enough for him to take cover, (during training, the panic needs to come out in your body language, they do pick up on your moods) but Im not home during the day and with all the snake proofing I've done I still occasionally get them in the house yard, I'm like a nervous wreck in summer. But I need to do what I can to keep them safe.

[BlackJaq]

I think e-collars are a great tool and I would love to use one to reinforce the recall when my dog is within a certain distance of roos and wallabies....

Banning them is ridiculous in my opinion, especially since you can still buy them legally and it is only illegal to use them.

Any training tool (or even a boot, horse riding whip or a brick) can be used cruelly and inappropriately. You just cannot legislate against stupid and yet they keep trying and people who would use these things appropriately miss out.

[Chezy]

my dog chases lizards and have seen him stop stare and growl at snakes , so not sure the lizard would work, he seems to know the dif , hoping the stop growl always stays with him .

any training tool is ok used by the right person the right way

[rubyroo]

I think e-collars are a great tool and I would love to use one to reinforce the recall when my dog is within a certain distance of roos and wallabies....

Banning them is ridiculous in my opinion, especially since you can still buy them legally and it is only illegal to use them.

Any training tool (or even a boot, horse riding whip or a brick) can be used cruelly and inappropriately. You just cannot legislate against stupid and yet they keep trying and people who would use these things appropriately miss out.

Spoil yourself blackjaq! Just let it sit in the cupboard!! :D

[BlackJaq]

Lol

[OSoSwift]

No it isn't cruel and to me very worth trying. DOgs and snakes do not mix, I have a young working dog I am going to try it on this year.

[Luke GSP]

Lol

I agree, maybe just get yourself one and look at it from time to time, taking in its design and aesthetics. sounds perfectly legitimate to me. i know a few people that enjoy owning them (purely for the sake of having it in a drawer of course) and their dogs have an almost remarkable recall.

Incredible coincidence of course :)

[Tazar]

I like this thread, no e collar bashing :)

[BlackJaq]

I think usually when people bash something like this, it stems from a lack of knowledge and a tendency to humanize dogs.... DOL is usually pretty informed and reasonable, even on iffy topics (not that they should be, but the general public often gobble up the crap that the media feeds them without a second thought, which is how we ended up with most of our terrible legislation, like banned e-collars in NSW and BSL and why the RSPCA has as many powers as they do and now accountability and people continue to support them)