2 Year Old Toddler Killed In Deniliquin

[megan_]

That is interesting Melzawalza.

I would imagine that a well bred, well trained, well socialised, well managed high prey drive dog does not pose a great risk to children (I'm thinking of K9Pro's protection trained, w/l mals here). Those are dogs that know when to turn drive on in a controlled fashion, now how to control their drive and get drive satisfaction via controlled play (you can see vids of Venom playing with Steve's daughter, he controls his drive beautifully and is so gentle).

This is very different from a dog bred by Joe Bloggs, origin unknown, not widely trained and properly socialised, kept on a chain and the only time they get drive satisfaction is if they kill something. I don't know if that was the case with the dog in question, but there is no way I would feel safe around a dog living in these circumstances.

There also seems to be a theme of "owned by young bloke" here.

[Christina]

I think that having an equality policy when comes to animals is silly when they are not equal. Some are more dangerous than others. If they weren't then you would see people hunting pigs with westies instead I mastifs?

I'm wasting my breath answering you. I pointed out that the danger from dogs was situational. And that small dogs, who are on a level with small children's & babies' heads/faces, can inflict serious injury given their finer skin & softer tissues. So it behoves people with small children to exercise caution in situations around all dogs... & that includes small dogs.

Of course, the extent to inflict injury or death is increased with size. Like the difference between being run over by a Mazda3 or a Mack truck. Where on earth does 'equality policy' come from? It's a case of caution in situations with babies/small children & dogs. Just like caution re all traffic when crossing the road.

I can see both points of view. Of course one must always be vigilant with children & dogs however it is a damn sight easier & quicker to remove an aggressive chihuahua that weighs a couple of kilos than a big breed dog weighing over 50 kilos.

Small dogs don't usually kill children when there is an adult standing there. I was always more worried about the tiny dogs getting squashed than children being bitten.

A blow with a heavy object could kill a small dog where a big dog may not even feel it.

All the comments, opinions & advice are all too late now Tragic event

[BlackJaq]

Well, in the overall scheme of fatal dog attacks, four seems like a big enough number to me.. How many toddlers are killed by dogs each year? I did not think fatal dog attacks in general are all that common.

[Clyde]

IF that dog was used for hunting pigs , under the CAA was already considered to be a dangerous and should have been kept in a child proof enclosure.

Playing devils advocate here, but had the owner followed the law, this tragedy would not have occurred.

If the owner did use that dog for hunting and it can be proven, he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Having said the above, I believe that the dog probably fits well with the bite stat research, as does the child. Young child under seven, entire male dog , kept chained.

Once again the public will learn nothing from this, it will become another dog witch hunt, introduce some more useless legislation.

I agree I'd forgotten that dogs used to hunt large game are considered dangerous anyway. How is it the powers that be are forgetting their own legislation though?

Obviously the owner is aware of this or he would not be emphasizing how this dog was "a family pet" when it clearly wasn't.

I grew up with hunting dogs on chains, they were considered our pets as well. I don't believe that piggers cannot also be good family pets. My brother still has pigging dogs and children with no problems.

My heart goes out to the the family. This is something no parent should have to go through, just so tragic I can't stop thinking about the horror that toddler went through, it's beyond words

I guess I don't have any statistics to back up my opinion, but there seem to be an awful lot of fatal incidents with toddlers and working pig dogs in Australia. I would be very reluctant to have a working pig dog loose around children this young. I know that prey drive and human aggression are two very different things but in my experience, very young toddlers can often elicit a prey response from dogs, and not necessarily just pig dogs either.

I would also be reluctant to let dog loose around a very young child like this if the dog was usually kept chained. Chained dogs also feature prominently in bite stats I have seen.

Anyway, personally I don't keep my hunting dog, whom I also consider a pet, chained up out back (she only hunts rabbits and foxes btw) and if we ever end up having kids she will be crated inside.

I think it's more about the types of owners IYKWIM. A lot of people who are attracted to piggers are rednecks. Poorer socio-economic areas and poor/minimal education. I chain my dogs when necessary.

[melzawelza]

IF that dog was used for hunting pigs , under the CAA was already considered to be a dangerous and should have been kept in a child proof enclosure.

Playing devils advocate here, but had the owner followed the law, this tragedy would not have occurred.

If the owner did use that dog for hunting and it can be proven, he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Having said the above, I believe that the dog probably fits well with the bite stat research, as does the child. Young child under seven, entire male dog , kept chained.

Once again the public will learn nothing from this, it will become another dog witch hunt, introduce some more useless legislation.

I agree I'd forgotten that dogs used to hunt large game are considered dangerous anyway. How is it the powers that be are forgetting their own legislation though?

Obviously the owner is aware of this or he would not be emphasizing how this dog was "a family pet" when it clearly wasn't.

I grew up with hunting dogs on chains, they were considered our pets as well. I don't believe that piggers cannot also be good family pets. My brother still has pigging dogs and children with no problems.

My heart goes out to the the family. This is something no parent should have to go through, just so tragic I can't stop thinking about the horror that toddler went through, it's beyond words

I guess I don't have any statistics to back up my opinion, but there seem to be an awful lot of fatal incidents with toddlers and working pig dogs in Australia. I would be very reluctant to have a working pig dog loose around children this young. I know that prey drive and human aggression are two very different things but in my experience, very young toddlers can often elicit a prey response from dogs, and not necessarily just pig dogs either.

I would also be reluctant to let dog loose around a very young child like this if the dog was usually kept chained. Chained dogs also feature prominently in bite stats I have seen.

Anyway, personally I don't keep my hunting dog, whom I also consider a pet, chained up out back (she only hunts rabbits and foxes btw) and if we ever end up having kids she will be crated inside.

I think it's more about the types of owners IYKWIM. A lot of people who are attracted to piggers are rednecks. Poorer socio-economic areas and poor/minimal education. I chain my dogs when necessary.

Oh I agree totally, and the man from the hunting association made it very clear that there are many hunters with piggers who do an exceptional job with their dogs and they never cause a problem. Chaining is a very very common factor in fatal dog attacks however Karen Delise's study into the topic shows that there are usually five or more common interacting factors that all contribute to the fatality. No one of those five key points on their own are necessarily the cause, rather it ends up being a 'perfect storm' of it all coming together at the right (wrong!) time, and causing the fatality to happen.

[BlackJaq]

So has there been a reason identified yet that might have caused this attack? I am very interested to know since this attack was obviously very sustained, not a quick bite hitting the perfect spot like what happened with Liam Perk..

[Alyosha]

IF that dog was used for hunting pigs , under the CAA was already considered to be a dangerous and should have been kept in a child proof enclosure.

Playing devils advocate here, but had the owner followed the law, this tragedy would not have occurred.

...

Once again the public will learn nothing from this, it will become another dog witch hunt, introduce some more useless legislation.

Exactly. No need for calling for new laws, there are already laws in place about this that may not have been complied with.

In a discussion about BSL a man from some hunting association spoke up and said the 'elephant in the room' that no one was talking about was about pigging dogs that are inadequately kept and socialised by their brain dead owners. He was very passionate about this, and careful to point out that many hunters use dogs for pigging in a responsible way, but according to him there is a whole subculture that simply do not ensure that their dogs are well trained and socialised and pair that with the work they do - their dogs can be a real danger.

I couldn't agree more. I have lived in neighbourhoods with similarly kept dogs and have seen a great many that are accidents waiting to happen. And yes, that is not a reflection on those who keep pig hunting dogs responsibly. But it is stupid to try and deny that there is a big ignorant idiot factor involved in the hobby as well.

[mixeduppup]

What a horrible situation. My heart goes out to the little boy's family.

[melzawelza]

A bit more information on the situation here:

News.com.au

The child was getting an ice cream from the outdoor freezer unsupervised with the dog.

Really, as time goes on, all the ingredients for this to happen are adding up. Dog that is typically chained, entire male, used for pigging, visiting child, unsupervised and now we're adding food in to the mix.

I only wish we weren't ticking them off after the child's death, rather picking them up before and preventing it ever happening.

Edited August 6, 2013 by melzawelza

[mixeduppup]

I have to say that breed specific legislation is in my opinion not the way to go, as any dog is capable of attacking a human being regardless of breed. I think what would be more beneficial is a short course that dog owners are required to take to learn the basics of dog behaviour and warning signals and what to do to prevent an attack. This would give people the knowledge they need to recognise when a dog is producing signs that it is unbalanced in a situation and attacks would hopefully be stopped before they happened. Prevention is better than cure. Again my heart goes out to this family.

[BC Crazy]

A bit more information on the situation here:

News.com.au

The child was getting an ice cream from the outdoor freezer unsupervised with the dog.

Really, as time goes on, all the ingredients for this to happen are adding up. Dog that is typically chained, entire male, used for pigging, visiting child, unsupervised and now we're adding food in to the mix.

I only wish we weren't ticking them off after the child's death, rather picking them up before and preventing it ever happening.

Couldn't agree more with this....

[BlackJaq]

Wow, that article is devastating! No mention of the lack of supervision and involvement of food? Instead, more prattling on about how "these dogs" shouldn't be in the country and dangerous dog law revisions... Really? How are people supposed to learn about ways of preventing these incidents, if the dog is always the one to cop the blame and no lessons are learnt from the situation? Are they going to ban all mastiff crosses now? It would be funny if it wasn't so very serious!

And calling it an accident like there was no way to predict this could have happened does a disservice not only to the family and the little boy, but to the dog and to all future victims of similar situations...

Edited August 6, 2013 by BlackJaq

[JulesP]

I would agree that food was probably the trigger. Not the first time either, it was thought that a meat pie caused the attack on the young girl in the UK earlier this year.

[Tara and Sam]

Deeon had been getting an ice-cream from the outdoor freezer at his grandmother Joyce Higgins' home about 2.30pm on Sunday.

The 71-year-old was looking after Deeon while his mother Vicki Higgins shopped. She rushed outside when she heard his screams and managed to pry him from the dog's jaws and take him inside the house.

But the powerful pet followed and took hold of him again

The dog was familiar with quite a lot of the grandkids who go there and frequent the grandmother's house

My link

[mixeduppup]

Sounds like resource guarding mixed with prey drive. Very sad.

[casowner]

I saw this video today and was disgusted, insert any dog instead the breed isn't what disturbed me. Dog on lounge, food, owner with their arm on the dog, toddler grabbing dog and squealing and not one verbal comment from any adult OMG

Video

I have a nearly one year old ASD bitch and a male CASD coming on Sunday and every interaction is monitored with my kids, my son is 2 and this story is just heartbreaking and so avoidable

Edited August 6, 2013 by behluka

[melzawelza]

I saw this video today and was disgusted, insert any dog instead the breed isn't what disturbed me. Dog on lounge, food, owner with their arm on the dog, toddler grabbing dog and squealing and not one verbal comment from any adult OMG

Video

I have a nearly one year old ASD bitch and a male CASD coming on Sunday and every interaction is monitored with my kids, my son is 2 and this story is just heartbreaking and so avoidable

The worst thing about this video is that when the owner initially uploaded it to youtube the description said 'They're only playing, he doesn't mean it. Look at the other videos of them together".

[megan_]

Yes - and when that child is bitten they will say "we never saw this coming". It is truly sickening. I hope lots of people have commented on the post.

[Teebs]

I can't watch that video again, it made me feel so sick

[BlackJaq]

Wow that video made my skin crawl