A Running Drop (down)

[sheena]

She will drop on que but will take several steps towards me before she does. I have been clicking & treating (throwing the reward back to her, but I am stuck on how to get her to drop almost instantly while running towards me. This morning I tried counting her steps & only clicking if the next time she took less steps before the drop otherwise I gave just a verbal, good girl, then released her & tried again. But she thought I was nuts & instead of dropping quicker, she thought she had to take even more steps towards me & then got confused because she wasn't getting rewarded for her efforts. I was thinking of getting someone to hold her on a lead & walk towards me, then when I give the Drop command the assistant stops & therefor she has to stop there too....clicking the moment she drops. Any other ideas

[The Spotted Devil]

2 food game back and forth close to you. Mark, release and throw a treat immediately she drops so she understands it's about response not duration. Most people having problems aren't quick enough to release. Too slow? Ah well try again - keep it super light. I taught drop on recall for Zig and whistle sits for Em - the latter now translates to a distance of 80m away.

Sorry for brevity - typing on phone.

Also - if you go to my You Tube (in sig) the last video I uploaded has me doing this with Em just at the end. I still train it close in like that and it improves snappy sits at a distance. I use 1/4 cheese cubes on grass.

Edited August 1, 2013 by The Spotted Devil

[FalconRange]

Will she do a change of position (dropping from a stand in front of you) okay?

[Weasels]

Does she understand "stop"? I start there, so they understand a 'no-movement' cue. Then we go to stop-down, so to move on the down is breaking their stop if that makes sense.

[sheena]

I'll try the two food game SPD & see how she goes. I do feel like we have to go back to basics & Yes, she will drop in front of me FR...with full recalls, she runs & drops at my feet & I think this is where she is getting confused. Bless her little paws, she trys so hard to please :laugh:

[The Spotted Devil]

FR raised a good point - make sure your signal is consistent. Maybe even video to check? Seriously, 2 food game is fast, furious and fun. My dogs love drops/sits at warp speed.

[wuffles]

I taught it using two food game too. Need to click and release as soon as they hit the ground. She knows the faster she goes down the faster she gets rewarded :)

[sheena]

I taught it using two food game too. Need to click and release as soon as they hit the ground. She knows the faster she goes down the faster she gets rewarded :)

So do you click when she hits the ground then release & throw the treat, or do you click, treat then release then throw second treat.

[Leema]

Here's a video and explanation of food placement. If you were placing food 'where she dropped', you may benefit from placing (throwing) food to where she was - making her get up and go back to where you cued drop.

http://leemakennels.com/blog/personal-posts/teaching-distance-drop-with-the-food-placement-method/

[Kavik]

I taught it using two food game too. Need to click and release as soon as they hit the ground. She knows the faster she goes down the faster she gets rewarded :)

So do you click when she hits the ground then release & throw the treat, or do you click, treat then release then throw second treat.

I would mark or release (if your marker word is not automatically a release) as soon as they hit the ground, and throw your reward.

[wuffles]

My marker is a release, so I do as Kavik says. Otherwise I'd click, "ok" then throw the food. Might take a bit of finesse!

[JulesP]

I stop them first and then ask for the drop so they get used to dropping at a distance. So a wait or stay command (if they don't have a stop), followed by the drop command. Not a great distance at first.

A stop is a brilliant command to have on your dog.

[corvus]

I just bellow it out like a drill sergeant. "DOWN!!!" When I was working on it with Erik ages ago I seem to remember I shaped it back from a few steps then a down to maybe a half step with fast releases (to me for a reward) for fast downs. I started working on a down in motion while he was moving away from me and hit troubles because his urge was to at least be facing me. He got a little confused and I had to take it right back to downing facing away from me just a step in front. Then I got distracted and forgot about it. I'm doing distance position changes with Kivi at the moment, and usually use a platform. Just building up the muscle memory and changing the context so he knows it's still the same signal when I'm not right by him. Didn't need to do that with Erik because he learns a cue and almost instantly generalises. Kivi needs stacks of practice, particularly with cue discrimination. He gets mixed up. Or more to the point, my signals are not consistent enough for him and he has to learn all the zillions of minute variations.

[sheena]

I stop them first and then ask for the drop so they get used to dropping at a distance. So a wait or stay command (if they don't have a stop), followed by the drop command. Not a great distance at first.

A stop is a brilliant command to have on your dog.

Not a bad idea. I might introduce a "stop" command. Using wait or stay while she is running might dissolve those commands which she already knows as certain behaviours. Though with the young guy, when he is approaching the table in Agility, we have to give the stay command before he hits the table, otherwise he flies over the top. :laugh:

[JulesP]

I stop them first and then ask for the drop so they get used to dropping at a distance. So a wait or stay command (if they don't have a stop), followed by the drop command. Not a great distance at first.

A stop is a brilliant command to have on your dog.

Not a bad idea. I might introduce a "stop" command. Using wait or stay while she is running might dissolve those commands which she already knows as certain behaviours. Though with the young guy, when he is approaching the table in Agility, we have to give the stay command before he hits the table, otherwise he flies over the top. :laugh:

I haven't found that. I do tend to use wait though. That is how I taught the stop. Wait-stop for a while and then just stop.

[wuffles]

I wouldn't want to do a recall and ask them to wait/drop straight out (or running between equipment, etc). Pretty sure that would confuse the heck out of my dog, or maybe she is just special. That's why I like the two food game, as you don't need to call them, they are already moving in one direction without a command to confuse them.

Edited August 2, 2013 by wuffles

[JulesP]

I wouldn't want to do a recall and ask them to wait/drop straight out (or running between equipment, etc). Pretty sure that would confuse the heck out of my dog, or maybe she is just special. That's why I like the two food game, as you don't need to call them, they are already moving in one direction without a command to confuse them.

I don't do it during a recall or running between equipment. Usually whilst they are running around the garden or park.

But this training has given me a perfect drop on recall :)

[wuffles]

That's ok then :) Mine doesn't really run unless she's doing something or asked to do something so I couldn't have trained it like that! :p

[Weasels]

I wouldn't want to do a recall and ask them to wait/drop straight out (or running between equipment, etc). Pretty sure that would confuse the heck out of my dog, or maybe she is just special. That's why I like the two food game, as you don't need to call them, they are already moving in one direction without a command to confuse them.

Yep I've never used the stop as I described above specifically in agility but use it all the time in herding where a quick drop in position is worth its weight in gold. And the stop-drop keeps them safe around the property too - but then mine are ALWAYS running so that's probably why it worked for us :laugh:

Edit - I do use it on recall though, to get them in a specific spot I want. As long as the majority of recalls are complete I've never had a problem.

Edited August 2, 2013 by TheLBD

[JulesP]

That's ok then :) Mine doesn't really run unless she's doing something or asked to do something so I couldn't have trained it like that! :p

Yes well running is probably not really accurate. Walking around sniffing stuff would be what mine are normally doing!

I don't bother with chucking food around as unless it is chucked right under their noses they never seem to find it!!

Got to find what works for you!