Stud Fee For Importing Semen

[bridgie_cat]

As the title says...

What stud fee would one expect to pay when importing seamen? My understanding is often two collections are pooled and frozen at the same time (collected 1hr apart) and this gives usually 2-4 breeding units... But obv that is how many shots you have and not how many litters you have. Do you pay a higher fee for possible multi litters?

Thanks

Bridget

Edited July 30, 2013 by bridgie_cat

[espinay2]

Occasionally (though it doesn't seem to be often any more) you can buy the whole thing 'outright' - you pay one fee (sometimes per 'breeding unit') and you use it how you like. But that seems rarer these days and most stud dog owner want more control of what happens.

The way I have done it is you ship the whole collection, pay one stud fee up front and then have terms in the contract regarding what happens with any 'leftover' once you have your litter. For example - define what a 'litter' constitutes so you know whether that singleton pup means you can have another go with the same bitch without paying another stud fee or whether you agree one viable pup constitutes a litter. Paying one stud fee you take the risk that if you use all of it and get no pups that is that? Or will they do another collection for you at no cost? (you still pay shipping - this is not common and I wouldnt expect it). Whether you can have multiple attempts with the same bitch without paying another stud fee if you are not successful the first time (reasonable). Whether if you are successful and you have 'leftover' you can use it on the same or another bitch and what the agreed stud fee is in those cases. Do other bitches need to be approved/agreed by the stud dog owner before you use it? Or is it a 'once off' thing and once you have your litter it is agreed any remainder will be destroyed? When is a second stud feed payable - before you use the semen the second time or when a viable 'litter' is produced?

A tip - 'breeding units' are often smaller than you actually need for one AI and in my experience motility on thaw is often less than what they tell you it is before you ship it. If they say 2 straws or 3 straws is a breeding unit, on average estimate that you will need to double that (or at least use one extra straw per breeding).

[Rebanne]

as a bitch owner importing semen I would want all the breeding units from one collection IF I was paying for the tests/collection etc. I would pay a stud fee for use of those breeding units on one bitch. If first bitch had pups and there were left over breeding units and I wanted to use them on another bitch I would pay another stud fee. If the first bitch missed once I would expect to be able to go again at no cost. If she missed twice and I wanted to use another bitch I would pay another stud fee.

As the owner of the stud dog exporting I would have the buyer paying all costs for the collection/testing etc and they would get all untils from that collection with payment of one stud fee. I would treat them as I want to be treated in the above scenario.

If collection/health tests etc were all done then I would expect to pay a stud fee and part costs. If the collection yielded 6 units and I bought 3 I would expect to only pay half those costs.

[Runamuk_AST]

As the title says...

What stud fee would one expect to pay when importing seamen? My understanding is often two collections are pooled and frozen at the same time (collected 1hr apart) and this gives usually 2-4 breeding units... But obv that is how many shots you have and not how many litters you have. Do you pay a higher fee for possible multi litters?

Thanks

Bridget

What stud fee would one expect to pay when importing seamen?

That's entirely up to you ! How much do you think the dog is worth to your breeding program?

I have Imp semen that has cost me 1K per breeding and i have also Imp semen that has cost me 2.5K per breeding.

Hmmmmm... 2 collections only 1 hour appart ? I have collected and froze semen from the same dog 1 week apart .

With the semen i have Imp i paid for the collecting, testing etc and purchased all the breedings bar 1 .

I have alway believed that 1 breeding unit is 1 stud fee. If a breeder already has the dog on ice and has paid for the collection and testing then that cost should be divided into the amount of breeding from that collection.

Do you pay a higher fee for possible multi litters?

Sorry but i dont understand what your trying to say ?

My understanding is often two collections are pooled and frozen at the same time (collected 1hr apart) and this gives usually 2-4 breeding units

I may be wrong so someone please correct me if i am,...but i dont think this is possible(1 hour appart) as there would be 2 different sperm counts and a different morphology count??

[bridgie_cat]

This is the information I received from the export company who does the collection and also packaging for export and their method is the two collections 1hr apart because that allows them to be pooled and frozen together to go in the same vial and this produces the 2-4 breeding units on average. I asked about doing another collection at a later date and their response was that this would be fine and could go on the same paperwork but would need to be specified as a different date collected and would go in a separate vial I think? Or something along those lines, it sounded as though it would add significantly to the transport cost but I think I need to have that point clarified so will ask again for that to be explained. They said essentially there was no limit to the pellets one could fit in a vial within reason but that it needs to be a unit frozen at the same time. I suppose this could allow for chilling and recollecting several days apart... Despite the loss of quality you would have that would be outweighed by the extra collected I would think. Definitely would need to clarify with them. Also the dog I am looking at is quite a few hours from the collection clinic I am looking at using so one visit is my best bet...

Re the multiple litters I was trying to ask if you pay for the collection a set cost, pay per litter actually produced or pay for the potential number of litters you could produce (the possibility of multiple litters - sorry that was not well worded) - where I feel if it was a normal stud service it would be multiple serves for the fee of a litter but obviously the value lies in the number of litters produced so it makes sense that in using the semen for ai that the fee would be more if one serve gave you multiple breeding units...

[RallyValley]

I don't think there is a standard fee. I talked with the stud dog owner and came to an arrangement where a higher than average stud fee was paid for the whole collection. There were multiple breeding units and since there is no 'return' we agreed that from 0 - X amount of litters the fee was set. If additional litters were conceived after our X point then an additional average priced stud fee would be paid for each litter.

I paid for all collecting costs via the import agent but the stud owner went to one of their vets.

(ETA - Don't want to post too many specifics from my contract, I'm paranoid! So I have used X and average price.)

[Runamuk_AST]

This is the information I received from the export company who does the collection and also packaging for export and their method is the two collections 1hr apart because that allows them to be pooled and frozen together to go in the same vial and this produces the 2-4 breeding units on average. I asked about doing another collection at a later date and their response was that this would be fine and could go on the same paperwork but would need to be specified as a different date collected and would go in a separate vial I think? Or something along those lines, it sounded as though it would add significantly to the transport cost but I think I need to have that point clarified so will ask again for that to be explained. They said essentially there was no limit to the pellets one could fit in a vial within reason but that it needs to be a unit frozen at the same time. I suppose this could allow for chilling and recollecting several days apart... Despite the loss of quality you would have that would be outweighed by the extra collected I would think. Definitely would need to clarify with them. Also the dog I am looking at is quite a few hours from the collection clinic I am looking at using so one visit is my best bet...

Re the multiple litters I was trying to ask if you pay for the collection a set cost, pay per litter actually produced or pay for the potential number of litters you could produce (the possibility of multiple litters - sorry that was not well worded) - where I feel if it was a normal stud service it would be multiple serves for the fee of a litter but obviously the value lies in the number of litters produced so it makes sense that in using the semen for ai that the fee would be more if one serve gave you multiple breeding units...

This is the information I received from the export company who does the collection and also packaging for export and their method is the two collections 1hr apart because that allows them to be pooled and frozen together to go in the same vial and this produces the 2-4 breeding units on average. I asked about doing another collection at a later date and their response was that this would be fine and could go on the same paperwork but would need to be specified as a different date collected and would go in a separate vial I think? Or something along those lines

Sorry i'm still a bit lost here, i was always of the understanding that "1" Vial "is" 1 mating, so why would they want to be doing this pooling thing?

it sounded as though it would add significantly to the transport cost but I think I need to have that point clarified so will ask again for that to be explained.

It should cost pretty much the same for you to bring in multiple breeding as it does for the one. I think you can fill up a Cane in the Frozen Semen Shipping Canister and it will cost you the same as if you where only bringing in the single mating.

They said essentially there was no limit to the pellets one could fit in a vial within reason but that it needs to be a unit frozen at the same time

Sorry i'm a bit confused about the above,this is my understanding of it all.

Breeding unit's can be frozen in Pellet's,Vial and in Straw's, i "think" the Straw"s are known as the Clone method and can take multiple Straws to make up 1 breeding unit, and i "think" a Vial is Camelott and the Pellet is I.C.S.B (International Canine Semen Bank) Method, 1 Vial = 1 Breeding and 1 Pellet is 1 Breeding. But i have only used Clone and Camelott. So i just dont understand the Pellet fitting into a Vial bit,...sorry.

Despite the loss of quality you would have that would be outweighed by the extra collected I would think. Definitely would need to clarify with them.

Be very careful here, never substitute quality for quantity !! just because a sperm is living does not mean it can fertilize an egg. Go for quality every time!!

Re the multiple litters I was trying to ask if you pay for the collection a set cost, pay per litter actually produced or pay for the potential number of litters you could produce (the possibility of multiple litters - sorry that was not well worded) - where I feel if it was a normal stud service it would be multiple serves for the fee of a litter but obviously the value lies in the number of litters produced so it makes sense that in using the semen for ai that the fee would be more if one serve gave you multiple breeding units...

I would think all of the above is something that is agree'd upon between both parties.

[bridgie_cat]

Sorry i'm still a bit lost here, i was always of the understanding that "1" Vial "is" 1 mating, so why would they want to be doing this pooling thing?

I see - sorry, difference in nomenclature here. The group I have been organising with calls a vial one unit in the canister and you can fit multiple breeding units in either straws or pellets in the vial. I have now spoken to the person and it seems they can put pellets from different freezing dates into the same vial also as long as it is collected in the 30day window following the blood tests. The additional cost would the be the collection fee and obviously additional stud fee (whatever that may be)

Re the different systems this place uses the Camelot method and they are freezing in pellets. I have not heard of freezing in vials... But I am still getting my head around the technicalities so that is certainly not to say that it is not a third option or another way of wording something.

As a side note for others looking at this game, there is a significant reduction in transport cost for the second vial sent (separate case for a different stud dog) thus if there were two dogs I wanted to bring out this would be by far the most economical choice.

Thank you very much for the advice on this it has given me a good idea of the various points to consider and different approaches that could be taken in this setting which is just what I needed.

Bridget

[bridgie_cat]

It doesn't seem worth starting a new topic but if anyone can answer this related questin that would be lovely - does the stud owner fill in paper work for each litter or do they sign over the aliquot and you then Owen x number of litter attempts from this dog and thus the stud dog side of litter reg is already taken care of?

[benshiva]

I have paid for the collections myself and store my dogs' semen. When we have had people purchase breeding units overseas, I send one breeding unit and one spare, with the absolute clear understanding that the spare is not to be used if the first is successful. I charge a normal stud fee for one breeding unit.

[Diva]

It doesn't seem worth starting a new topic but if anyone can answer this related questin that would be lovely - does the stud owner fill in paper work for each litter or do they sign over the aliquot and you then Owen x number of litter attempts from this dog and thus the stud dog side of litter reg is already taken care of?

I own the semen I imported, it is registered in Aust under my name. The overseas owners of the sires don't need to fill out any paperwork for the litters. So yes, the I am effectively the owner of the stud for the purpose of litter registration.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Diva

[SilverHaze]

Both times I brought in frozen Semen, the agreement with the breeder has been to pay upfront for a breeding. If that breeding is successful and later down the track we want to use the remainder on another suitable bitch, then pay another stud fee. At the end of the day its down to the honesty between people as when you bring in the semen, it is signed over to you and registered in this country as being owned by you. The stud dog owner has to relinquish all control.

All collections I have had done have been two collections a couple of days to a week apart. Frozen pellets in vials.