How Would You Feel About This Situation?

[kelpiecuddles]

I was only 20 metres away and they were the ones that came to where we were not the other way around, my dog didn't run half way down the beach to get to them(and she never actually made it to them as I called her back). This beach is literally kilometres long with access in multiple places from a number of tracks and carparks. We actually saw them as we were walking down the beach to where we ended up stopping, so essentially they followed us down the beach and dsat down near us. If they were concerned about my dogs why would they come and sit down right next to us?

I can't imagine showdog that from what you described of your own dog you would put your dog in that situation?

Edited July 18, 2013 by kelpiecuddles

[Rebanne]

Never said it wouldn't? I was wondering if others might have had insight into why the other owner may have made the choice to be there when they knew their dog had issues, that's all...

how do you know it had issues? it jumped down to see the approaching dog, your dog was going to see the newcomer, both doing doggy things

[kelpiecuddles]

As I said earlier it was growling when it jumped down and the way it jumped was more of a lunge, the owner followed quickly and instantly grabbed the dogs head to hold it's mouth closed and pulled it up and back. The two people who had the dog were also yelling to each other stuff like, quick, grab him, etc, etc and were trying very hard to drag him back up the sand dune. I've worked as a vet nurse and have been heavily involved with dogs for the last 15 years, I'm more than comfortable saying that the dog was acting aggressively, and I'm usually the first to point out to someone when a dog is behaving a certain way due to fear or other reasons rather than simple aggression.

[Malakita]

I have a Mal and sometimes when they vocalise, they can sound like they are growling.

They do look intimidating with the size and the body language, which can be interpreted as aggressive.

The main thing is that your doggie is ok and recall is reliable.

[kelpiecuddles]

I don't find a mal to be an intimidating dog at all, infact they are smaller than the dogs I have had in the past. Most I have met have been delightful, I've worked with a few. A mal is also one of the few dogs that has managed to get it's teeth in to me, but in that case it was my own fault as he was very scared and I tried to hold his collar to get him out of a bad situation where he was about to be injured(the others were a maltese who was also acting aggresively due to fear and a toy poodle who was just poorly socialised and thought it was top dog). Just wanted to be clear that I hadn't mentioned the breed due to preconceptions about them, just to give an idea of the size of the dog in question.

It wasn't just the behaviour of the dog, it was also the behaviour of it's owners that indicated that this was not a simple case of vocalising and wanting to say hello if you know what i mean.

[kelpiecuddles]

Maybe Snook. If that was the case it's a shame they didn't come and talk to me because I always go to places like the dog beach with a couple of 30 foot leads that the dogs can run on in areas where there are no people to bother but aren't actually allowed off leash or in cases where I need to be able to let them run but watching them 100% is difficult. If they were working on desensitizing and were worried about their dogs reactivity I would have been more than happy for them to be there and just put my girls on their long leads just for a bit of security

[kelpiecuddles]

I get what you are saying there. To me it's a shame though that others can't be more understanding of things like that. I love my long leads because it means my dogs can still have freedom but i can alter the length to restrict them to an area that means I don't have to worry about others who may want to use the space in their own way too.

[haven]

They didn't necessarily "put" their dog in any situation. The fact that the Mal reacted the way it did in this instance does not make it dog aggressive. It could be, but it could also be that it usually doesn't react in that manner, or even that it never has before. It may have recently been attacked by another dog, the people may have only just obtained the dog and not been aware that it would react in that manner, it could have perceived something about your dog or the way she approached to be threatening, there could be hundreds of potential explanations and mitigating factors. Obviously they thought they were a safe distance away from you and in fact they were, until your dog closed the gap by approaching them.

Edited July 18, 2013 by haven

[kelpiecuddles]

I guess one could say they were a safe distance based on the fact that their dog couldn't have reached my dog when it was at the length of it's lead. Although I would tend to feel that 20 metres from an unknown unleashed dog if you are at all unsure about your own dog is probably not a safe distance, it's certainly not one I would risk. They were lucky that my dog does have good recall, very few I come across do. They did thank me for calling my dog back so there was no angst or anything but they did move quite a bit further don the beach after so I suspect they may have rethought whatever their intention was.

[Santo66]

Owning a DA dog myself, I don't take him to off leash areas where other dogs are present mainly because there is a good chance that the owners of the off leash dogs can't control them off leash and they think an off leash area is a free for all where the dogs can all play together and they assume everyone is there for the same reasons. I think it's pretty stupid for an owner of a DA dog to risk the obvious in that environment when things can easily turn badly very quickly. It's hard enough exercising a DA dog avoiding off leash dogs at large on the street let alone seeking out off leash areas IMHO.

There is no such thing as an aggressive breed :) Each dog, even within a breed, is an individual. You can't say that this dog's behaviour was, or wasn't, aggressive because of it's breed.

Technically right, but a stupid concept if you want to keep your dog safe where some breed knowledge and common sense needs to prevail. Not all breeds are equal in their genetic abilities to defend and fight and you don't know the genetics of the individual dog or what training and control the owners have over powerful dogs of especially guardian or fighting breeds. That's the problem with the "deed not breed" concept, when the deed is done, it's too late to take an informed precaution?

Edited July 18, 2013 by Santo66

[haven]

I guess one could say they were a safe distance based on the fact that their dog couldn't have reached my dog when it was at the length of it's lead. Although I would tend to feel that 20 metres from an unknown unleashed dog if you are at all unsure about your own dog is probably not a safe distance, it's certainly not one I would risk. They were lucky that my dog does have good recall, very few I come across do. They did thank me for calling my dog back so there was no angst or anything but they did move quite a bit further don the beach after so I suspect they may have rethought whatever their intention was.

I wouldn't say they were lucky that your dog has a good recall, I'd say you were as the onus was on you to have your dog under control while off lead and your dog approached them. They were at a distance where their dog was non reactive, whether there is a history of dog aggression or not. They may not have been at all unsure about their dog and they may have moved because your dog responded to them at that distance. Even so, everyone is different and just because you wouldn't do something doesn't make it the right or wrong action. A leash free beach is simply a place where dogs are allowed off lead, not to the exclusion of all others wanting to use the beach.

[kelpiecuddles]

No luck on my part, recall is something I continuously work on for good reason, because as you say, the onus is one me to have my dog under effective control,yes I had a momentary slip which I owned up to in my first post but I was still able to call her back before she got close enough to get in to serious trouble. When I referred to them being lucky i was more thinking about it being lucky that my dog wasn't one of the most around here that just barrel up to any dog and don't have good recall.

[Gertrude139]

Unfortunately legally if an altercation occurred I guess your dog would be in the wrong because it was the one off lead, however I think the other owners were quite irresponsible and have a lack of common courtesy.

I never understand why people with dogs that can't be let off leash exercise them in off leash areas, they are able to take them anywhere else and are often the ones that cause problems.

No they're not, they're only allowed to take them where dogs on lead are allowed, which is definitely not 'anywhere else'.

For instance there are barely any beaches in Sydney that are designated on lead, they are either off lead or no dogs at all. Most of the on lead ones have time and date restrictions meaning dogs aren't allowed on weekends, public holidays or after work hours.

I've got huskies and there is no way I am letting them off lead in an open space because I will never trust their recall. The only way for me to maintain effective control is to have them on lead.

My dogs never get to play on the beach anymore as I am sick to death of people berating me for having them on lead when I am doing the responsible thing.

I wouldn't take them into a gated dog park on lead because they can go to other parks which aren't off lead, I don't have that option with beaches.

[haven]

I wouldn't call it a momentary slip, it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong. You saw your dog approaching another, you recalled her and she came. The other people, whether the dog has an issue or not, had their dog on lead and were obviously also supervising well enough to be able to respond to their dogs reaction. Sounds like a win win to me, I just think that speculation based on the assumption that their dog has an issue is pointless because it may be incorrect and you have no other information to go on.

[Simply Grand]

My personal feeling, after some consideration, is that this is just a thing that happened. Dogs being dogs, humans being humans and no one doing anything against the law or even particularly wrong. Sometimes dogs run up to other dogs, sometimes dogs react to other dogs, nearly always as humans in public with our dogs we need to manage situations. In this case, you managed your dogs, the other owner managed their dog, there obviously were some scares but everyone was ok and hopefully there are no after effects.

ETA - snap haven!

Edited July 18, 2013 by Simply Grand

[skip]

I am off to the beach tomorrow and it is a deserted beach mostly. I tend to stay away from most other dogs as I have 3 and 2 are little ones. Just less hassle unless I like the other dogs.

I'd also think it weird if someone settles next to me with a dog on lead and yet there is miles of beach away from me. Weird but not much you can do.

I am always grateful that the other people at least leashed their dog. In the past I've met dogs off lead that definitely shouldn't be. I don't go to off leash parks now.

[JulesP]

I think if the Mal is DA (which we don't really know) that it should be muzzled for its own sake in an offlead area. That is what I would do anyhow if I had a DA dog. Well a big DA dog with a heap of hair. I wouldn't like to leave a smaller dog defenseless. Sounds like the owners had the dog reasonably well under control.

I personally would have moved away from them myself.