Good Thanks Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Are fake papers possible? I've having issues with my pups breeder who I learnt doesn't have a prefix, someone has sent me multiple messages saying she is connected to fake papers and not sending papers at all. So... possible or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Anything is possible, unfortunately. If she doesn't have a prefix, she isn't a registered breeder, and you won't get papers. Have you contacted your states canine body about it? Edit, just realised you're the same person from the thread the other day. With the breeder who didn't know which mother the pup was from :/ Sorry things have turned out this way. You said you contacted your states canine council didn't you? Edited July 17, 2013 by minimax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 What did CCCQld say about it (follow on from other thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Fake or forged papers are pretty easy. It's also possible that a breeder who once had a prefix and followed the code of ethics and all that, has decided to go into cross breeding and those puppies will never get ANKC papers. If someone sold you a puppy and told you it would be ANKC registered (aka "papered") and it isn't and won't be, then you can (theoretically) return the puppy for a full refund because it isn't what you paid for. You may also be able to get your money back via your credit card company - if you used a credit card to pay for it. And if you are in Australia - most of the state consumer affairs offices are becoming more interested in this kind of fraud or misleading conduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Can I just say that I really hope you've not been sold a dog with fake papers and I'm really sorry if you have been. I would definitely start with a call to the Dept of Fair Trading in your state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Thanks Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 Well we have another 6 months before we know if we actually get papers. I've called Dogs QLD. I have all the information now of the dam's name, and who the dam is registered to, and still that person doesn't have a prefix, she has still promised papers through another prefix and technically I was told she can do that if she transfers the bitch from her name into the breeder whom owns that prefix. However its against the code of ethics (What does that mean though?) In the meantime I was messaged by someone else who has given me much more information about the person who sold me a pup, none of it is savoury. Consumer affairs have given me information to call lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Well we have another 6 months before we know if we actually get papers. I've called Dogs QLD. I have all the information now of the dam's name, and who the dam is registered to, and still that person doesn't have a prefix I still think you're entitled to your money back. She sold you a pup, she claimed she was registered and she wasn't. The other breeder may not be willing to support someone like that. Ie if the dogs she bred were limited register and sold as pets - she'd have to get them converted to mains register and that might never happen if the breeder still thinks those dogs are not good representatives of their breed. Contact fair trading / consumer affairs - they will be able to do more than dogsqld. And 6 months is a ridiculous amount of time to wait when there is a puppy involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Thanks Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 She tells us theoretically they don't have to be registered until the day before their 1st birthday, this is true, so she has another 6 months. The other breeder is willing to help, so far, but she will still need to come up with the money, which she is claiming is the reason for no registration yet. When she sold the pups we were given 2 weeks to come up with a pedigree name for the papers, she said otherwise we miss out and she picks it as she likes to do them ASAP. (I have all this in writing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 May I ask the ballpark figure they charged you for the pup (on the promise of giving you registered pedigree papers)? From what you have said here - and not hearing any side at all from the actual breeder of your pup - it all sounds very dodgy to me... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Dare I ask, is the dog blue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wundahoo Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 She tells us theoretically they don't have to be registered until the day before their 1st birthday, this is true, so she has another 6 months. This is true in part, but only if the breeder has already applied for or has been granted a prefix prior to the birth of the litter. The ruling says that no dog can be registered after 12 months from it's date of birth. If the breeder has not applied for a prefix prior to the birth of the litter then it doesnt matter how much time has elapsed. Litter registrations are not retrospective unless an application for the granting of a prefix has been lodged with the controlling body prior to the litter being born. If this has not happened (ie the application for a prefix prior to the bitch whelping) the only way out of this predicament would be for the bitch to be transferred into the ownership of a person with a registered prefix and that tranfser would need to be backdated to prior to the birth of the litter. This would mean that there would be penalty payments for a late transfer. To do it this way is possible, but it would be frowned upon by the controlling body. I think that you need to get some advice from people whose job it is to deal with these situations ie CCCQld and Fair Trading or Consumer Affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Thanks Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 Dogs QLD have given me information, to fill out a stat dec and we may get a certificate for our pup, but obviously no registration papers. Consumer Affairs have sent me to lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessicaM Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Sounds like she perhaps bred a litter from a bitch who only had limited papers and she is proberly in shit now cause what she did is ILLEGAL! She might be trying to make up some fake papers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santo66 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Are fake papers possible? I've having issues with my pups breeder who I learnt doesn't have a prefix, someone has sent me multiple messages saying she is connected to fake papers and not sending papers at all. So... possible or not? The litter could be bred on someone elses prefix.......perhaps the bitch is co-owned by her breeder and the person you are dealing with is the owner/carer of the bitch who raised the litter assumed as the actual registered breeder when they technically are not the breeder for registration purposes........that happens often. They could be waiting for the co-owner/registered breeder to submit the paperwork.....some are not too fast at doing that?. Fake papers can come in many forms from completely falsified which the ANKC would have no record of, or legitimate papers with the wrong sire and dam entered as the parents of the litter etc etc so it depends really?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I guess it comes down to what the breeder told you about papers that made you choose her. Obviously you can't believe a word she says any more because everything she's said about papers has been wrong so far. You should be able to get your money back via small claims court, if you want to keep the puppy anyway I think a fair amount to ask back would be her price - the cost of a puppy from the RSPCA (though that includes desexing and microchipping). Does she even comply with the rules about selling puppies in QLD? http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/animal-industries/cats-and-dogs/pet-owners/microchip-your-cat-or-dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Sounds like she perhaps bred a litter from a bitch who only had limited papers and she is proberly in shit now cause what she did is ILLEGAL! She might be trying to make up some fake papers... It's not illegal to breed any dog to any dog... what IS illegal is falsely advertising the pups as registered pedigrees when that may not be the case - for financial gain... technically that is called fraud. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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