Little Gifts Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Some people suggested early in the piece that Pickles may have been better off pts... but they had never met her in the flesh and seen how well she copes with her disability. To me, she is normal (well, normal for Pickles anyways) - and very much a part of my family... OK, she has also decided that she's the number 1 dog here and lords it over all the others, and is the most bloody destructive and naughty dog I've ever owned... but I wouldn't have it any other way. There is a "spark" that the special ones have that only an owner/carer really understands... Pickles has it... and maybe Rosie has it too? Personally, I probably would have given Rosie her wings when she was first removed from the hoarder... but I've never met her - maybe there is something about her spirit that "tells" he carer that they are doing the right thing for her? T. Maybe Rosie's will to live is far stronger in real life than we can see from pics and videos? I'm sure people did tell you to let go of Pickles and I'm equally sure that if you saw or felt she had no quality of dog life you would've made that hard decision, but she has proven her ability to overcome her disabilities and she is still very much a dog living a dog's life. It doesn't seem like Rosie is able to be a 'dog' unless someone is helping her do it. That's what I'm struggling with. If a person with physical or intellectual disabilities was raised like a dog there would be outrage so to raise a dog (or kangaroo!) as a human baby (because that is the level she seems to be functioning at) just disturbs me I guess. I think of all the natural instincts that are unable to be provided (rather than being deliberately denied as I am sure the owner does care for Rosie). I also worry about the pain she must still suffer from time to time as a result of her inabilities to care for herself. How can she tell you when she needs to scratch or lick some part of herself? I respect her will to survive if it exists and I respect her carer's commitment to her but I struggle with the life she currently leads as a dog and how she understands the ongoing pain and suffering that comes with her existence. She might be used to her limitations but does an animal really get used to pain? I guess I'm just sad that some shitty, shitty human brought her into this world and whether she likes it or not humans continue her existence inside her damaged body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Some people do thrive on the saint comments and attention caring for a special needs dog gives them, we don't know it that is the case here. That rescue tag does not automatically equate to a perfect human with unselfish motives. It's easy to say the carer will PTS if the pain is too much but the poor dog is already in pain and suffering. A dog that cannot move has no control over it's life and that in itself is stressful. This seems more about the carer's needs than what is best for this poor little thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 It doesn't even look like a canine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wundahoo Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) People scream blue murder when a "registered breeder" breeder produces and animal with issues or we supposedly breed to the "extreme" , yet we crap on about how this dog must have a will to live and deserves to be here etc etc. Really it should have been culled at birth. You can dress it up however you like but this dog does not have a good quality of life, neither does the dog with no front legs and that poor Kangaroo was as miserable as all get up. I agree that if her problems were as extreme as they are now, she should have been euthanased at birth..... and in the hands of any responsible breeder probably would have. In fact if her parents were owned by any responsible breeder it's likely that she would not ever have been born at all !!! That is not issue, however. The issue is that this little dog now exists, is an adult, has obviously survived in very tough circumstances and so has demontrated an incredible will to live. Even though she looks bizzare she must be reasonably sound in her physiology and has a temperament that simply is geared to survival. She has a right to be assessed fairly by professionals and treated accordingly. If it has been deemed that her quality of life is so poor that there are more bad times than good, then certainly euthanase her...... but it seems that she has been professionally assessed as capable of attaining a good quality of life with enjoyable times and with an expert owner who cares for her very well. Her lifestyle is far from ideal and is not what we personally would want for our dogs but that is not really the measure. I dont think that we can bring the kangaroo into this discussion because that was a very different scenario. Obviously WW you are of the opinion that there is a line in the sand as to what is acceptable lifestyle for a dog..... thank goodness that we humans are not measured by that (or are there some who do that ??) ...... what would have happened to Stephen Hawking and many other lesser profiled disabled people whos lives are severely limited (physically or intellectually) but who still enjoy what they are able to achieve and in many cases who have made significant contributions to society, or simply live a good life. I'm not anthropomorphic on this subject, just trying to put across a point of view that we cannot assess this animal through photos and a website. It's not really up to us nor can we quantitate her quality of life. While I dont condone the wholesale across-the-board save everything attitude of some rescuers, I believe that it needs to be a case-by-case assessment which includes the welfare considerations of the animal as well as a very serious look at the abilities and desire of the carer to maintain a good quality of life for the animal. Rosie's carer has knowledge and abilities to care for special needs dogs and obviously does a good job. As to her motives I cant attest. Perhaps it is about her and not the dog.... I dont know. As to what constitutes a "good" quality of life and natural desire, I think that again it is a dog by dog issue. I have several dogs who show no interest at all in chasing balls, tearing up soft toys or digging holes. They just want to lay around on the couches and wait for the next meal time or greet visitors at the door, rolling belly-up for a tummy rub.... that is their hobby. Do I assess them as being miserable or depressed..... do I consider them to be abnormal...... do I wonder where I went wrong in their upbringing ???? I compare them to a couple of my others with which I cant risk leaving a soft toy because they rip it apart and swallow the bits and risk winding up in surgery to retrieve the contents which have stuck at the ileocolic junction. Soft toys are life threatening to at least one of my dogs...... so NO soft toys for adult dogs in my house just to be safe. Likewise they dig craters and tunnels which I am forever having to fill in and watch where I walk in the dark in case I fall into one !! I compare these dogs to the other in house on the couch and I wonder which is "happier"...... very different lifestyles in the same household, but both acceptable in different ways. As Skruffy n Flea says "dogs is dogs"...... they are each as different as we are. You are right WreckitWhippet "it should have been culled at birth" but "it" was born and "it" lived in extremely tough conditions .... survival of the fittest ?????? I wonder why she made it ? tdierikx you understand the spark that some dogs have. Pickles has it, my rescue also does..... he WILL NOT give up. Without that spark, that quality that gave him the will and the inner strength, he would have died a long time ago, probably at the hands of his previous owner and so I would never have met him. These dogs have something that makes them "special" in more ways than just their disabilities. I feel that Rosie is one of those. I suspect that at birth Rosie may have had a resonably normal appearance and that many of the deformities that we see now have been developmental and occurred slowly as she grew. If she was as severely deformed in the jaw as she is now she would never have been able to suckle properly and would have died very quickly within days. Somehow I couldnt imagine her breeder bothering to tube feed a pup like this. She is now in the hands of a caring and skilled person and I believe that while her life quite clearly is not "normal" she is loved and happy, albeit in a different way. I want to believe that her pain is also well managed because it appears that her carers are highly motivated to help her in every way possible. Pain management in dogs is now a highly developed area and it seems that Rosie is getting that expert attention. Like you, Little Gifts, I do struggle with the appearance of her current life but I like to have some faith in the expert and professional people who are charged with her care. I try not to look at the "outside" and judge. Edit for spelling Edited July 18, 2013 by Wundahoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 The will to live is in every animal, but you can't use that as an excuse for prolonging life. So because she hasn't died on her own her that means her will to live is so strong she needs to be kept alive? The technology we have today can keep humans and animals alive long past the time we should. If she could get around on her own that would be different, but she has no control over her life at all. You just have to see the extent of her deformities to know that her life is not a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Poor little Chih the kindest and most unselfish thing that owner can do is give Rosie her wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Rosie doesn't know anything else... she was born that way, and so life for her is definitely different to most, but it's "normal" for her. Same for Pickles - she just doesn't know any different, so manages in her own way... I know for a fact that as Pickles gets older, she may face issues based on her strange movement style... when this happens, I will have to give her her wings - and it may be a whole lot sooner than an able bodied dog. But then again, I could be wrong - she's not showing any signs of slowing down yet, and she's nearly 3 now... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakkjackal Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 This isn't rescuing or love -- this is polishing their own halos. I am disgusted by the selfishness of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 If a breeder was keeping this dog alive they would be crucified. I don't know Pickle's story but I'm guessing she can move around? This dog can't move. Any drives she has mentally are unable to be satisfied, she can't be anything that resembles a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Rosie doesn't know anything else... she was born that way, and so life for her is definitely different to most, but it's "normal" for her. T. What makes me uncomfortable about this argument is that we can say exactly the same about puppy farm dogs. They know no different, they aren't committing suicide etc therefore this is "normal" for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 The Moorook people use the same argument, Moorook might be crap but at least the dogs are alive. So that means it doesn't matter what conditions people keep PF dogs in because they are alive right? We have the power to be compassionate and we should use it. It doesn't matter to the dogs what the place they are living in is called, to them pain and distress is all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Rosie doesn't know anything else... she was born that way, and so life for her is definitely different to most, but it's "normal" for her. T. What makes me uncomfortable about this argument is that we can say exactly the same about puppy farm dogs. They know no different, they aren't committing suicide etc therefore this is "normal" for them. Well met megan, but may I qualify my statement to include only dogs born with disbilities? I haven't set up a Facebook site to glorify the fact that Pickles lives with me - those who have met her and seen her funny walking style are usually full of questions, but Pickles' happy and love of life nature supercedes her disability, and people seem to accept her as pretty normal after a while. Pickles could so easily be used as a donation magnet - but I have a bit more respect for her than that... We manage, Pickles and I (and the rest of my pack) - and she is allowed to do all the things a normal able bodied dog can do - even if that means she may need a little help to do things like get onto the couch or bed. If another dog wants to play rough, I usually intervene because she does get knocked over easily and has managed to break one bone so far by being an idiot. We don't need that happening with any regularity... I owe a great debt to the lovely community worker who managed to get Pickles to a life where she would be given the chance to enjoy to her fullest extent - but when she first came into care, we took her on with the possibility we may have had to euthanaise her if she didn't improve to a stage where she could enjoy a full doggy life. Jasmina - you are Pickles' fairy godmother - and I owe you so much for bringing us together! T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Rosie doesn't know anything else... she was born that way, and so life for her is definitely different to most, but it's "normal" for her. T. What makes me uncomfortable about this argument is that we can say exactly the same about puppy farm dogs. They know no different, they aren't committing suicide etc therefore this is "normal" for them. Wow, this is making me think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Rosie doesn't know anything else... she was born that way, and so life for her is definitely different to most, but it's "normal" for her. T. What makes me uncomfortable about this argument is that we can say exactly the same about puppy farm dogs. They know no different, they aren't committing suicide etc therefore this is "normal" for them. Wow, this is making me think. Yes, all of a sudden put that way it seems different doesn't it. There are far worse things that can happen to a dog than painless euthanasia. And yes I know people will jump on that statement and say how is it better they are dead. Well it is living beings can survive some horrific things and death would be much better than what some animals endure daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 This isn't rescuing or love -- this is polishing their own halos. I am disgusted by the selfishness of people. My thoughts exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 This isn't rescuing or love -- this is polishing their own halos. I am disgusted by the selfishness of people. My thoughts exactly And mine. Social media has given people a whole new audience for conspicuous compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fit for a King Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 This isn't rescuing or love -- this is polishing their own halos. I am disgusted by the selfishness of people. My thoughts exactly And mine. Social media has given people a whole new audience for conspicuous compassion. Amen to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Some individuals tether their entire identity and self worth to the attention rescue on social media can generate. It's very sad when the person comes first and the animals are a means to an end. Not a comment on Rosie. I sincerely hope she and her rescuer are under the best care and guidance for such a unique animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 This isn't rescuing or love -- this is polishing their own halos. I am disgusted by the selfishness of people. My thoughts exactly And mine. Social media has given people a whole new audience for conspicuous compassion. Amen to that. I too agree. The dog has had a few surgeries just to live in 'comfort'. What I find hypocritical is the fact everyone is up in arms the breeder was going to sell her to a Freak Show ... what's the difference with what is happening now? The dog paraded here, there and everywhere for no real cause. It's not for the dogs benefit, it really is for the people's benefit. If I had found a dog like that it would be at peace now. That is not rescue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Sorry but I think even though this poor pup is breathing doesn't mean she has quality of life. There is such a BIG difference..... I would have given her her wings at birth I understand the point some are making that she doesn't know the difference but WE do. Another huge question is WHY is she being kept alive for????? To stroke peoples ego's ???? I believe so. IMHO I believe this is a very cruel & sad situation for the puppy Edited July 20, 2013 by BC Crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now