Training Advice Please - About To Get A Dog!

[chezzyr]

Hi there,

I am about to get a dog and its been quite a lot of years since I had a dog, so I am a bit "out of the loop". The dog I am getting is older, not a pup, and I dont believe has had obed. training. I WILL be signing up for obed classes but Id really love some advice in the meantime on the following:

- toilet training an older dog who will be living both in and outside (hasnt spent much time indoors previously)

- training a dog NOT to jump on furniture/beds. Dog will have own bed and be somewhat restricted indoors because we rent and have a dog clause!

I am aware that there are probably different training methods and even training equipment/gadgets, the thought which doesnt thrill me. I am after some basic/effective advice.

Would be grateful for any tips, helpful internet sites or personal experiences. Thankyou.

I am getting a Collie.

[Pete]

Here is a great site, look under puppies and it has enough information to keep you busy for a long time: http://www.k9events.com - I have not owned a collie myself but from my observations they can have soft personalities so I would definately try not to be too harsh until you know your dog better.

[chezzyr]

Thankyou, Pete. I didnt know about that site. It is a treasure trove of info! Ive printed off a couple of good articles to get me started

[ninaandted]

the only thing i can suggest with an older, mainlyoutside dog that you are converting to an indoor/outdoor dog is to treat their toilet training like you would a puppy.

take them out every hour or so and take them to the spot you want and praise them when they go and do what they are meant to do outside.

the advantage with an older dog in this respect is usually they will do a pee at least pretty quickly! sometimes with puppies they just don't get the point!! you also won't have the frequency you do with puppies so that will help your sanity a bit.

you will need to keep this up pretty consistently and don't expect the results any faster than you would for a puppy. it may take a while to click to do it outside.

if they have been outside on grass mainly you will probably have a better time.

We got an older puppy (still under twelve months old) but because he'd always been kept in a concrete run he would pee and poo anywhere he felt like it because that is what he was used to!!! he still makes mistakes if the door is closed but is getting the point. we still make sure that we take him out every hour when we have him inside. in the beginning he just didn't even know the difference between inside and outside and even if the door was open he might still go inside.

I just kept telling myself "lots of opportunities for training..."

[Guest Tess32]

Collies pick up house training very easily. Reilly had one accident because we weren't paying attention and that was it, he knew to wait after we took him outside after dinner a few times. He wasn't a very young pup either (almost 5 months).

I bet she will pick it up very easily if you follow the basic advise on that site.

Reilly is allowed on the couch but not the bed, so we simply taught him "up" on the couch and "off" the couch so we can control the on/off.

I think collies can be trained fairly easily from what I've heard and my own, but the general advice I heard before I got him turned out very true. They are not fans of repetitive training (I only do about 3 repetitions for each exercise a day) and they will try and guess what you want (so if I stand there with a treat, I get a drop, sit, paw, you name it). They are not quick at obedience (that is, they don't put their bum on the floor so quick you can't see it) but learn quickly and solidly.

Good luck, I want piccies of her remember!!

Nat

[dogdayz]

I have a weim and a collie - they went the first year of their lives not allowed indoors (ex-partner who didnt like it). Once they were allowed in we have had one accident total (more scent marking by the then entire weim). They sleep through the night indoors now with no accidents. It has been far easier than with a pup.

Collies are the best choice of dog (only a little biased).

[chezzyr]

We will pick her up this weekend and I will try to get a few tips off the breeder when I do but from what I understand the dog hasnt really been an indoor dog (just brief visits) and things will be a little different for her (I expect) coming from the countryside into suburban home/backyard situation. I am excited and nervous.

Nat, I promise I will take some pics. Thanks also for sharing some of your experiences with Reilly. It will help me understand Collies more (never owned a Collie). I am all ears to other's experiences and thanks to those who are posting!

OK so I can expect a keen trainable dog but possibly lacking the "zippy"-ness of the Border Collie? (I must say that I observed an Obed Trial and some of those Borders are so fast/snappy/robotic - it was very military like). I would like to just see what develops, am not making any major plans at this stage and arnt a highly competitive person either.

First things first!

Chez

[Kavik]

Go watch some agility - then you won't think Borders are robotic or military like - you will think they are nuts Just like the Kelpies . . .

[chezzyr]

Dont get me wrong, I love Borders. I had even considered getting one, and had a nice solid bodied red or chocolate become available at the peak of my "searching" then I may have weakened. But they can be extremely switched on and hyper which is why I decided to consider "gentler" breeds. Hey we had even considered Boxer at one point

Ive seen Collies do flyball though they dont seem as zippy as BCs and Kelpies - I wonder what Collies are like at agility? Anyone?

[Guest Tess32]

You can probably expect a dog that will learn quickly but will look at you like you are slightly insane if you keep asking for a "drop" 20 times in a row.

Reilly does everything in a slower motion but hey, he still does it

They also seem to work best when you let them joke around in between training. For example, last night I was doing some basic "walk close" work in the backyard. We were doing it for a while when I sat down to tie my laces back up. Reilly walked off a little, then I hear him running up behind me as he pounces on my head!

After that we got back up and resumed work - but be prepared for a little sillness every now and then

I don't know about others, but Reilly does not have an "aim to please" attitude unless he actually enjoys the exercise (loves targetting and walking close) and then he'll be zippy about it. He looks positively bored when I do stays, but he will do them. There's no way he'd work properly for praise alone.

Nat

[dogdayz]

I wonder what Collies are like at agility? Anyone?

There are some very successful collies in agility, as well as obedience, herding, tracking. My own collie does some agility however will probably not ever excel (under VCA rules anyway). Simple reason being collies are one of the breeds that straddle the medium and large dog height categories. My own girl just crosses into large dog which is hard for her to maintain the jump height over a series of jumps she will stop enjoying it. So i jump her for fun/exercise but at medium heights Thats not to say those that fall into large dog dont do well, some do. They are not as zippy as a border. And in all activities Skye will get bored quite easily, and will switch off/sulk, and though completing a task they will make it clear she is not happy, so its important to find what makes your dog want to work. I find to much repition is very bad, Skye does better straight back after two weeks off than when she has had a week of training.

I generally aim to have fun with her, and if we collect the odd title along the way then thats a bonus.

Edited April 15, 2005 by dogdayz

[chezzyr]

Reilly sounds like a clown! Not to mention a sneak. Maybe the fact that I am getting a girl she wont be so boisterous. But then again I dont know what Im in for. I am guessing that Im older and more decrepit than you, Nat, so I am not sure how Id take to being bowled over and pounced on by a hairy beast (maybe not so hairy as Reilly). I have heard she likes soccer balls and as Im not sporty at all I guess I better learn how to kick a ball around the backyard

The training in small doses sounds like a real good idea to me. And Im not aiming for the world's fastest reacting dog so I think I will cope.

[Guest Tess32]

Yep he has a very big (and occasionally weird) sense of humour, but believe it or not, he's actually quite gentle when he pounces His other favourite "trick" is to run at me FULL SPEED and swerve at the last moment.

We do all that in between boring stuff like stays, otherwise he loses interest and just looks bored.

Your girl's hopefully a bit more mature *g*.

I've also seen collies do agility (actually saw a thing on tv too) and flyball.

Nat

[fido666]

Hi Chezzyr,

Check with the breeder in case she has been paper trained. When I got my last Collie at 5 mths old I had a devil of a time toilet training her as she would only pee on paper (and never on the lead). Eventually I had to take the paper outside till she got the hint. Smoothies are no different to roughs temprement wise and I agree with what Nat said about occasional silliness, it's one of the things I love about them . Enjoy your new dog!

Nat,

so if I stand there with a treat, I get a drop, sit, paw, you name it

It's called "scanning", it usually means your dog is confused about what you want it to do so does everything it has learnt for that yummy treat . Just make sure you use distinct hand signals and commands to convey the action you wish Reilly to perform, oh and remember to "bridge" (use a word or other marker such as a clicker) to mark the correct behaviour at the exact point it occurs. Sorry, if I'm telling you how to suck eggs .

Cheers,

Corine

Edited because OH was rushing me .

Edited April 15, 2005 by fido666

[Guest Tess32]

Corine,

Sorry wasn't clear (my boss was behind me *g*), this is before I even ask him to do anything.

I like him to offer behaviours....he is a clicker trained boy after all.

Nat

[fido666]

Sorry Nat . I am trying very hard to food motivate my boy, haven't found that "Millon Dollar Food" yet. Toys seem to do the trick but a lttle too well, at least he stays focused . I use the special toy just for training, he also likes to carry it on his walks which is good for training "hold".

cheers,

Corine

[Guest Tess32]

Roast chicken - Reilly goes cross eyed and drools.

I have found though, that if it's TOO good he cannot think past his stomach, so I use the chicken for recalls or stuff where he doesn't have to concentrate..hehe.

Toys just make him silly and me as well

Nat

[chezzyr]

You guys: I havent got the foggiest notion what clicker training is *sigh*. I can imagine it involves a gadget with a clicker noise and in fact I think I heard one being used at the Collie show last weekend. Is clicker training the "in" thing and is it really more effective than other kinds of training? I am kinda wondering whether a constant clicking noise would drive me batty? I always thought dogs were trained with praise/food/repetition/voice etc, or is that the "old fashioned" method?

[Guest Tess32]

It's been the "in" thing for a few decades now *g*.

You don't need a clicker. It's just a sound that marks the behaviour you want at the exact moment. It's perfect for shaping behaviours - you can click gradual approximations of the behaviour you're after. For example I cilcked reilly lifting his paw a tiny bit...then a bit more and a bit more (no longer clicking for the small lifts) until you get what you want.

People like it because it's more consistent than voice and it is a neutral sound.

I wouldn't say it's more effective in general - depends on the trainer like all methods, but I'd say it IS the most effective method in training complex behaviours.

Once the dog knows that click = correct it is easy to communicate with them exactly what you want them to do.

Nat

[sas]

I read somewhere when teaching basic things such as sit you should allow about 20 seconds for a response....mmm 20 seconds feels like a life time.

Leila does everything in slow motion as well, she's gotta think all about her positioning before she does anything hehehe Oh except when food is present then she's on her arse before you've even gotten the food out!