Allergy Diet...

[redangel]

Ok after changing my apparently allergy prone dog to grainfree diet, skin scrapings, antihistamines, antibiotics, antifungals and anti mange medications we are still getting "flare ups". We use a soap free wash with no perfume. The hair is trying to regrow only to get a "flare up" which seems to put all the good back a few steps. No allergies recorded in her lines.

We cannot find the source of the flare up. Dog now goes from slightly itchy to a flare up -itchy all night with hair loss.

My next aim is an allergy diet. Introducing a protein she hasnt encountered (kangaroo is all i can think of) and I believe the other constituent is a carbohydrate. I was thinking maybe sweet potato.

Has anyone undergone the task of putting their dog a strict allergy diet before? What were the ingredients used?

If I cant get any positives my next theory is to foster her to see if there is a trigger specific to my house.

[trinabean]

Hi Redangel, yes my dog is currently on an elimination diet. I will look up some info for you amongst the handouts I have from the dermatologist. Basically you use a protein and a carb that the dog has never had before. This can be more difficult than it sounds, if you have tried the dog on a variety of foods (and commercial foods often mix a number of different proteins).

The ratio is one third protein to two thirds carbohydrate. So 200g kangaroo with 400g of sweet potato. :)

Edited July 16, 2013 by trinabean

[trinabean]

The tricky thing with allergy dogs is that the itching might have an environmental cause or it could be an adverse food reaction. Or it could be both (my dog).

The only way to find out about specific environmental allergens is by doing the expensive intradermal and blood serum testing through a dermatologist. Treatment options then include allergen specific immunotherapy, along with antihistamines and other topical measures to manage the itchiness and minimize infections.

The best way to work out if the itching is caused by food allergies is by undertaking a strict elimination diet for 6-8 weeks. After 6-8 weeks, you then feed your pet their original diet for 7 days, including all the food you normally fed your dog. If the itching, redness etc returns, stop feeding the original diet and resume the elimination diet.

It would probably be best to see a vet dermatologist then, to oversee a sequential re-challenge. This is where you systematically add one 'challenge' food at a time (for 7-14 days) to the elimination diet, noting any allergy symptoms.

While on the elimination diet, it is important that you don't feed any vitamins, kibble, rawhides, milk, treats, etc. Some worming medications contain flavourings and should be discontinued for the dietary trial. A spot on heartwormer (eg. Revolution) can be used. If due, I would use an intestinal wormer before commencing an elimination diet.

Amongst the leaflets, the list given of the most common causes of adverse food reaction are proteins such as: beef, mutton, chicken, wheat, corn, soy, dairy foods and eggs. Plus chemicals such as additives, preservatives and food dyes.

Some of the suggested 'novel' proteins are: Kangaroo, goat, donkey, horse or venison. Meat can be cooked or raw, but use whole meat only, no mince.

Suggested 'novel' carbohydrates: sweet potato, pumpkin, kidney beans, lentils or barley. Quinoa is what we ended up with this time, as none of those carbs were new to my dog.

I recommend keeping a record on a notepad to help keep track of the date, food given, plus any noticable symptoms. Try to record a number out of 10 of how itchy the dog is for each day. It can show patterns of increase/decrease that are otherwise hard to spot. A record may be useful for when you next go to the vet too.

You can certainly start an elimination diet but I do recommend getting a referral to a dermatologist too.

Good luck. :)

Edited: Is the dog a miniature poodle Redangel? If you let me know the her weight I can look up the guidelines for the recommended feeding quantity.

Edited July 16, 2013 by trinabean

[LisaCC]

I've done the same as Trinabean, but under strict vet instructions. Because allergies can be from even the smallest things, you have to be wary with doing elimination diets and making sure the dog is still getting all of it's nutrients.

For new proteins, Kangaroo is great, have you thought about Venison or Goat? I was lucky enough to have a dog food butcher that we could source meats from, if you have one near by it might be good just to go down and have a look

Kangaroo worked for us.

[trinabean]

Yes, ours is under vet and dermatologist supervision too. Our regular vet got us started on the basic elimination diet, and then referred us on to a canine dermatologist.

Bruno is having the immunotherapy vaccines at the same time, to hopefully desensitize him to the environmental allergens.

[Rascalmyshadow]

I have put our itchy rescue poodle on a strict elimination diet and it has given us about a 90% improvement.

We use a dog food roll the brand is Prime and it's kangaroo and potato.

[Nekhbet]

is she getting some form of food or snack from someone or sneaking something you don't know about? A neighbour throwing over a treat? Visitor?

[JackieW]

I was reading an interesting article on a Dr Becker newsletter. Not sure if it's relevant to you? Immunoglobulin A Deficiency: A Hidden Source of Chronic Skin Allergies and Infections That Few Vets Detect

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/07/12/immunoglobulin-a-deficiency.aspx?e_cid=20130712_PetsNL_art_1&utm_source=petnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20130712

[JulesP]

Amber had what looked like a typical skin allergy. I mucked around with diets and creams. It was actually a symptom of her liver condition. Since I have got that stable her skin is fine.

[Yonjuro]

I know a lot of Husky owners swear by coconut oil (extra virgin if you can get it) for allergies and itching skin conditions - even flea rash. I will not say that this is going to be a cure-all or be right for your particular dog and conditions but it might be worth looking into if you are at your wits end. It is mainly used as a food supplement but can also be used topically.

I must state that I have no experience with elimination diets so I am unsure if adding another element to a diet will further complicate an already complicated process :)

I also think there has been some excellent advice given above from those with far more experience than I for such a condition.

[Rascalmyshadow]

We are also using evening primrose oil as a supplement, a wonderful old vet suggested it.

[Yonjuro]

We are also using evening primrose oil as a supplement, a wonderful old vet suggested it.

Yeah, I have heard the same thing!

...another one my vet says is Paw Paw cream topically is awesome on scratches, bites and other skin conditions. I swear by this stuff!

[Christina]

There is nothing that will cure an allergy or make it better. The allergy is still there no matter what supplement is given. Alleviating sore skin doesn't affect the allergy.

The only cure is avoidance.

The only way to find the allergen is to give one thing at a time.

If you give a meat & sweet potato lets assume you suspect the sweet potato so you swap to carrot. Still as bad so you assume it must be the meat.

It may be the carrot & the sweet potato.

I would try the same food for 2 days straight & change every 2 days & keep a diary noting any changes for each food.

If there is no change after 2 weeks may be its something in the environment. This means it can still be the food as well. Its so complex.

Easier to start on the house & more likely. Knock out cleaning products & sprays/polishes. Use white vinegar & water for cleaning & all floors. No carpet fresheners/air fresheners. Remove any plants. Put a couch cover on. Wash bedding in soda & borax. Keep her off grass & out of shrubbery. Don't wear any perfume. Try & keep your sense of humour & sanity. Oh & no fleas products.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Christina

[fbaudry]

Sorry Christina but that's not how an elimination diet works... If someone wants to go down that path I'd strongly recommend they do so under veterinary guidance.

When introducing a novel source of protein and carbohydrate it is usually recommended to stick to it for 4 to 6 weeks. You won't see any improvement after only 2 days; it takes much longer than that for the dogs body to get rid of the allergens.

[LisaCC]

Sorry Christina but that's not how an elimination diet works... If someone wants to go down that path I'd strongly recommend they do so under veterinary guidance.

When introducing a novel source of protein and carbohydrate it is usually recommended to stick to it for 4 to 6 weeks. You won't see any improvement after only 2 days; it takes much longer than that for the dogs body to get rid of the allergens.

Exactly. The only time you change it quicker is if the dog has an obvious bad reaction to one of the introduced foods. Even then, ring the vet again and say what has happened before you change.

My example was rice, Sam couldn't tolerate it, we needed to switch to mashed potato after only 4 days.

[redangel]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I am really concerned as she had a outbreak the other day and well she has a section about inch x half inch bald angry and looks like elephant skin. This area is in her armpit. I am happy to go to a dermatologist when the time comes I have spent hundreds at the vet in skin washes, anti flams, antihistamines. I dont want to go to a specialist only to be told for the first session to do an allergy diet. I am keeping a diary. I am concerned she is causing more aggravation to the affected area when I am not home. without stimulis she seems to lick n chew a lot more. The other dogs will try to lick her affected part...she is happy to ask them to do so. I thought of an Elizabethan collar to stop her from licking and chewing...but that doesnt stop her back leg! She doesnt chew lick much when I am home, if she does she goes out of my sight to do it.

She is a toy poodle Trinabean. I would appreciate any information sheets about such a diet. I have comtemplated the cleaning products I use...I must admit Im a clean freak so floors and carpets are done daily, the carpets washed 6 monthly the dogs bedding weekly..etc... I am open to suggestions on cleaning without chemicals. I dont treat for fleas as I havent seen a flea for 4 years. Oh and yes Christina this is doing my head in...owned over twenty poodles, never had an allergic dog before.

I recently recounted buying her a red rubber chew toy as a gift...talking to a friend I recalled how dog dermatologists say things like red plastic bowls were very good at triggering allergic reactions...so red rubber ducky has gone Then I noticed how she chews the plastic pegs off my airer...we now are noting this and checking pegs. Oh and because she sleeps under my doona...im rethinking if it may be an issue. Ducky and doona are new about the time this started. But I am grasping at so many things...I dont want nor can keep this dog in a bubble! (she might well be allergic to that too)

Should after her next vet visit check go down the specialist path, can anyone please give me advice as to what he/she might want to know...what likely diagnosis methods used.

Again thank you all very much.

[Jumabaar]

The other thing that a derm will want you to do is a flea control trial regardless of you seeing fleas because some diagnosis are by exclusion so the only way to rule out fleas is to treat for them and have no improvement. Although the pattern that your talking about makes it unlikely but you may as well be able to walk in having done it already. You can use a topical treatment every two weeks (they will also want you to treat any other animals in the household monthly) or comfortis monthly.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Jumabaar

[Yonjuro]

... I stumbled across this link which might be worth having a read of

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/07/12/immunoglobulin-a-deficiency.aspx

Some things sound similar to the OPs problems and is focussed on immunoglobulin deficiency. Interestingly they make mention of Coconut Oil as potentially being helpful.

EDIT: Bugger, I just re-read the thread and the same article was already posted - woops :)

Edited July 20, 2013 by Yonjuro

[Christina]

Sorry Christina but that's not how an elimination diet works... If someone wants to go down that path I'd strongly recommend they do so under veterinary guidance.

When introducing a novel source of protein and carbohydrate it is usually recommended to stick to it for 4 to 6 weeks. You won't see any improvement after only 2 days; it takes much longer than that for the dogs body to get rid of the allergens.

It doesn't take weeks for allergens to leave the body & it doesn't take weeks to show a reaction. A person eats something & is allergic symptoms occur between instant & about 48 hours at the longest. My whole family was plagued with severe food allergies before it became the modern fad & we were under strict medical guidance when finding the culprits.

Yes veterinary guidance is a good suggestion but that is the surest, fastest & most accurate way to find out rather than messing about with various & several things at once.

[Christina]

Sometimes a short course of Prednisolone can give temporary relief if its driving the dog insane. Not safe for regular or long term use but a low dose 10 day course won't cause damage as a one off. Ask the vet about it.

Its usually a tablet for 5 days then progressively lowering the dose by halving & or alternating days for the next 5 days.

Works like magic but not a cure, only a break & less stress for the dog. It could go crackers if its really itching & is stopped from scratching. Imagine it yourself.