Successful Stand

[Freetoroam]

Hello all,

I have a ST puppy who is 16weeks. She had her first 2 shows on the weekend.

I am having dufficulty being successful with gaining a good steady stand with her. On approaching the judge she will go into a sit, along with when free standing, she will only hold it for seconds.

Would appreciate some feed back please.

[Dogsfevr]

Will ask the obvious question first has dog been taught to sit ??

Also she is a pup so sometimes they need assistance & you need to make it more fun * note allow them to get board & sit .

Also if your holding the bait to high they will sit ona free stand because its more comfy

[Sandra777]

Wot she said :)

Edited July 15, 2013 by Sandra777

[kirst_goldens]

i used stackers on both mine and they got it very quickly free standing however is different i let the dogs walk into their front then use luring to get them to place their feet, to build the length of time practise at home start with very short periods and then a reward.. then a bit longer and reward and build and build until the dog will stay standing

[Tambaqui]

Food reward! So easy to get them to do anything when you have food on you and rewarding for good behaviour!

I had someone tell me last week I give out too much food. But dogs respond to good behaviour and reward. I show Min Pins, Cresteds and Lowchens, but also have handled Chihuahuas and Poms recently and after discovering food, how willing some dogs to do anything!

When you practice the freestack with your dog, when you see your dog do what you want it to do (ie stand with 4 feets in position), reward it straight away with a praise! Keep consistent, then you'll get a freestack easily!! Early stage training will get you best results in long term!

Edited July 15, 2013 by Tambaqui

[Freetoroam]

Hi,

Thank you all for your assistance.

Mimosa hasn't been taught to sit. She just begun this on her own. I now feel it is due to holding the treat high.

I had no trouble whilst showing my Rottweilers years back.

Stackers, have never used them. Can they be used with a ST pup? She is now 25klg?

[Dogsfevr]

I have never used the stackers & personally have no desire i have seen more issues created than good but it is each to there own .

Baiting to high is generally the first major issue & no amount of training will make it work if you do this wrong.

Alot depends if the pup is sitting more in general or just at these times after all its alot of puppy to keep upright.

How is pup on the stack .does pup stack well or try to sit ?

[Freetoroam]

Hi Showdog,

Her stack is just ok. Will attempt to sit unless I support her stack.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

From a completely non show perspective...

the best stands I get from my dog -

First method (not so good) I got a stand by catching her with a hand under her tummy before she could sit, then building duration with a high rate of reinforcements - ie feeding her treats as fast as I can and stopping if she moves a paw or sits.

The second method - starts by teaching her to target your hand with her nose, by putting a treat in your hand, and letting her eat that (if you want her to stand, place it out so she has to stand up to get it), only treat while she is standing (again - as fast as you can deliver while she is learning and the behaviour is what you want). So then you start rewarding for her tapping your hand with her nose. Then you can lead her around by moving your hand so she has to move to touch it - place your rewards from your other hand into the target hand * in position * so she stays (or moves) to the position you want to get the reward.

I agree with the others about placing the reward too high - then you get yoyo bum. My dog coils up on her bum to use her back end as a sort of rocket launcher to grab the treat (a trick I call "Greedy Pig" and would not want to try with a St Bernard).

Once she has the idea of the stand - at least four out of five times you set it up, then you can add a cue word of your choice eg "Staand" or "Stack" for the more formal show dog look.

And once she's got it going nicely on cue, you can start rewarding for the average or better looking stands... not the slow sloppy yoyo butt stuff.

there's a link to Susan Garrett's video of her stand on her facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/SusanGarrettDogAgility

if you like the page - you get access to the video via the picture below the profile picture - it's the picture (click on it) to the right of the number of likes she already has.

youtube links are so much easier.

Remember only reward what you want more of ... you might not want to use the same play rewards as SG does with her puppy.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[Jumabaar]

I tend to start off without bait in my hand and just wait around for to give me a stand and then say yes and then pull out the treat for them. If they sit I just move back a little so that they get up themselves and say yes and give them a treat so that they understand the treat is for bottom off the ground. Once they understand its bottom off the ground that is getting them the treat I can start to bait them without them getting confused and sitting.

That all said my puppies are taught to sit as well as stand and they know the difference between the cue that you get a reward for your bottom on the ground and the cue where you wont get a reward with your bottom on the ground. You just have to make sure you do them an equal number of times to ensure that the sit is not more rewarding in the puppies mind.

Also my puppies all need a little assistance to have a judge go over them for the first few months. Having a stranger come up and lean over can be very scary, so even if they do free stack I tend to come down to their level just incase they do spook at something random.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Jumabaar

[nabs]

Is this a Saint we are talking about? Some of the giant breeds can be a little slow on the learning when babies. They get board and tire easily. Consistency and patience is the key. They do end up getting it but often take more time.

[Dogsfevr]

For me if i have a pup that in my opinion wishes to sit more than stand i am straight off to my bowen lady to get them checked.My theory is a sore pup will not stand & no amount of practice will make it happen so all my pups get checked to ensure there isn't something sore & making them want to sit more.

If there not sore then great but with my larger breed pups i tend to not worry alot as often there body is not ready to support all that weight so its got to be made fun with a little help .

All mine get table stacked from pups to adults,i find it easier on my back & they learn quicker & i have no issues with them following through in the ring & yes i will table my large breed babies till 4 months

[Freetoroam]

Thanks all for your tips. Much appreciated

I did meet with a local exhibitor yesterday who showed me where i was going wrong. Was excellent to have the one on one assistance.

So now comes the training

[mirawee]

For me if i have a pup that in my opinion wishes to sit more than stand i am straight off to my bowen lady to get them checked.My theory is a sore pup will not stand & no amount of practice will make it happen so all my pups get checked to ensure there isn't something sore & making them want to sit more.

If there not sore then great but with my larger breed pups i tend to not worry alot as often there body is not ready to support all that weight so its got to be made fun with a little help .

All mine get table stacked from pups to adults,i find it easier on my back & they learn quicker & i have no issues with them following through in the ring & yes i will table my large breed babies till 4 months

My youngest kelpie was a PITA because her default was to drop with sit as a close second :laugh: She wasn't sore and has never needed a treatment when she has visited the vet chiro/accupunturist. But then if you watch kelpies they often drop when herding sheep :p

It took me a while to convince her to stand when she stopped moving and I had to reward very quickly for the smallest moment of bum off the ground She now free stacks well and has a good stand stay so I can walk all the way around her and even step over her without any issues

With judges checking mouths on babies I let the pup sit if they go to and just restack after the judge has finished going over the head. I have never had a judge say anything about the pup sitting and my theory is that you are better off not making a big deal of it when they are young. Baby mouths are sore and personally I don't see why judges even bother as half the time they don't have teeth anyway! The judges that I like best are those who quickly put a finger under the lips to get an idea of jaw on pups rather than opening the mouth :) If they bother with anything at all :)