Question Regarding Dog Attacks

[megan_]

There is a man who brings a cat on a leash to an off leash park in Bentleigh. I know that people are meant to have effective control of their dogs, but bringing a prey item and then taking away their flight option is just plain cruelty in my book.

[Christina]

a dog that kills a cat (in public not the dogs yard) should have the same outcome as a dog that has killed another dog.

I think the dogs owner should be fined for having the dog out loose or off lead & not under control but nothing more. If peoples let their cats roam loose they know it is at risk of all sorts, not just loose dogs. Cat owners fault too.

Not feasible to have other pets with a dog that kills & many do, unless you can guarantee 100% foolproof seperation. I don't think it makes the dog dangerous at all.

My doberman was incredible with children & people but killed anything that moved if it wasn't a dog. She got the pet rabbit at a few months old & it wasn't just dead when I found it, she had ripped its guts open I knew instantly that I could never trust her with other species after that & I didn't. She got an odd bird or big lizard though when in the garden. For some dogs this is just dogs being dogs. Only makes them dangerous to the rabbits/rats/birds etc.

[melzawelza]

There's currently a thread in the News section that's got me thinking. The particular story is about an attack on a Pomeranian and it has me thinking about what is acceptable 'attack' behaviour from a dog and what is unacceptable. Where does the line get drawn?

Obviously, in the case of the poor Pomeranian, the attack should never have happened and the behaviour is completely unacceptable, however, the reason I'm asking is this.

I own a terrier and my best friend keeps pet rats, mice and guinea pigs. Kirah has shown her true colours and goes into full 'eat the rodent' mode when shown a cage of my friend's rats. In the very unlikely event that Kirah should get a hold of these rodent pets and kills them, (it won't ever happen because my dogs stay outside her house when visiting) my question is this. Should she be deemed a 'dangerous dog' and seized and euthed because she's killed or does her behaviour get overlooked because of the types of animals involved i.e. rodents?

I'm only asking because these rats, mice and guinea pigs are her pets so her value on their lives is much the same as a person's pet dog or cat. Would people or the media go all stir crazy if a staffy or 'pit bull' attacked a cage of pet rodents or would the behaviour be written off as 'they're terriers; it's what they do'?

I just think these questions can raise some interesting discussion.

Edited to clarify my question so it's not just in regards to media but to all people.

The legislation in NSW has 'except vermin' in all of the definitions of attack and dangerous dog. The real question would be in the definition of that though - if the rat is someone's pet, is it still considered vermin? That would be up to the individual Council to decide on if such an attack was reported.

I had an attack reported where a dog escaped and killed someone's rabbit on their own property. I called the DLG for their impression on the word 'vermin' and they stated that someone's dometic rabbit is not vermin, but a wild rabbit would be considered as such.

The dog obviously can't tell the difference so it is up to the owner to prevent it happening.

It does frustrate me when I have attacks on cats reported. Of course it is completely unacceptable if a dog kills someone elses pet without provocation however I always end up with the whole neighbourhood ringing me and saying 'what if it's a child next time?!?!'. I have to try and gently explain that prey drive to a cat does not = human aggression, and that the dog is not a vicious beast, it is a normal dog that was mismanaged by it's owner. I usually manage to get someone's back up that thinks I'm defending the dog or not taking it seriously, which is never the case. Dogs aren't allowed to be dogs anymore.

Taking a rabbit to a dog park is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. It is really very worthy of the head banging emoticon.

I went to the RSPCA ACT doggy olympics day a few years ago and someone brought their miniature pig, which at that point was a baby and about the size of a cat. My dog lost it as did many others and I had to spend the whole day managing her to ensure she didn't eat it. The owners were oblivious to it. I couldn't get over the fact that people just don't 'get' how risky this is to their pet.

[hankdog]

Interesting question because with owning a reactive dog I spend a lot if time managing what he comes into contact with and that frequently involves not being able to go somewhere because despite it being an on leash area I know there will be "illegal" off leash dogs there. A dogs temperament should be known to the owner and the dog managed accordingly. If the owner is not up for it then unfortunately the dog should be removed. Likewise a person taking a rabbit to a park can foresee that dogs will attack it and if that happened I wouldn't necessarily blame the dog unless the owner maliciously ignored the danger to the rabbit. Situations are seldom black and white but people need to act sensibly in the grey areas.

Last year my chicken was attacked in my garden, I had just gone in to the bathroom and Jake came with me. When we came outside I realized something was wrong and he took off into the garden. The dog, that I didn't sight, dropped Lola and ran. Had Jake caught the dog there would have been damage and I wonder if I would have been liable or whether I could have got back some of the $2000 that it cost me to repair Lola. There are three dogs that are regularly off leash in our area and I've seen two jump our 4 foot fences to come hunt the ducks that live here and have sent footage of one actually chasing ducklings to the council but nothing gets done.

[Fit for a King]

The first and only time I went to the million paws walk there was a woman walking a cat...surrounded by hundreds of dogs and getting pissed off every time a dog got wihin a few metres of her. She received an earful from quite a few dog owners - complete stupidity IMO......I'm sure she thought she was being clever....

[JulesP]

I saw a cat being taken for a canoe ride once. That was fairly strange to see!!

Off lead dog area too!

[Alkhe]

I got yelled at for my Toy Poodle walking in the general direction of a woman with a pet duck, that she had brought to the park (which has a pond in it). The duck, which was actually a drake, was much bigger than Maggie and the woman had brought it to the park to play with the resident ducks..

My Maggie hadn't even noticed her duck and would've been sh*t scared of it, had she seen it! But apparently it's ok to take a duck to a park. Weird. I mean, .. yeah. Whatever. :laugh:

More on point though, I think the line would have to be whether we are talking about a pet rabbit or rodent, that your dog had killed, and whose property it was on. I've got 2 pet rats who live in a cage in my room, and if they got out, they wouldn't survive 2 seconds with one of my dogs. And if they did get out, that's my own fault, and of course I wouldn't hold any of the dogs to blame at all.

[trinabean]

The first and only time I went to the million paws walk there was a woman walking a cat...surrounded by hundreds of dogs and getting pissed off every time a dog got wihin a few metres of her. She received an earful from quite a few dog owners - complete stupidity IMO......I'm sure she thought she was being clever....

I saw a cat being taken for a canoe ride once. That was fairly strange to see!!

Off lead dog area too!

I got yelled at for my Toy Poodle walking in the general direction of a woman with a pet duck, that she had brought to the park (which has a pond in it). The duck, which was actually a drake, was much bigger than Maggie and the woman had brought it to the park to play with the resident ducks..

My Maggie hadn't even noticed her duck and would've been sh*t scared of it, had she seen it! But apparently it's ok to take a duck to a park. Weird. I mean, .. yeah. Whatever. :laugh:

I think I have vastly underestimated the number of nutters who exist in society. :laugh:

[RiverStar-Aura]

I own a terrier and my best friend keeps pet rats, mice and guinea pigs. Kirah has shown her true colours and goes into full 'eat the rodent' mode when shown a cage of my friend's rats. In the very unlikely event that Kirah should get a hold of these rodent pets and kills them, (it won't ever happen because my dogs stay outside her house when visiting) my question is this. Should she be deemed a 'dangerous dog' and seized and euthed because she's killed or does her behaviour get overlooked because of the types of animals involved i.e. rodents?

why do you tease your dog and why does your friend allow her pets to be terrorised is my question?

if your dog came onto my property and broke into my pets cage, in the house or yard, yeah I'd be screaming for blood. Same as if my greyhound went next door and killed their pet rabbit. Breed does not allow your dog the right to seek out and kill other peoples pets. If pet rat/rabbit/cat trespassed onto dogs property then so be it, I'd be sad my dog killed, but I had them contained, the owners of the interloper didn't.

This

I'd just like to point out that I don't allow my dog to terrorise her pets. My friend was the one who decided that it would be a good idea to let my dogs into her house to see what would happen. I knew what Kirah would do so I snatched her up as fast as anything but not before she'd had a few snaps at the cage and she was quickly put back outside again.

My friend is not the bright person and thought the entire scene was funny but I was horrified; she's never done it again and she won't after I gave her a good what for.

Edit: we were sitting playing games and I didn't even know she'd let the dogs inside as she's never done it before knowing my dogs are outside dogs. I thought she'd gone to the loo and the next thing I know, Zeus is coming around the corner and I knew where Kirah would head so I tried to cut her off.

Edited July 12, 2013 by RiverStar-Aura

[tdierikx]

The first and only time I went to the million paws walk there was a woman walking a cat...surrounded by hundreds of dogs and getting pissed off every time a dog got wihin a few metres of her. She received an earful from quite a few dog owners - complete stupidity IMO......I'm sure she thought she was being clever....

I saw a cat being taken for a canoe ride once. That was fairly strange to see!!

Off lead dog area too!

I got yelled at for my Toy Poodle walking in the general direction of a woman with a pet duck, that she had brought to the park (which has a pond in it). The duck, which was actually a drake, was much bigger than Maggie and the woman had brought it to the park to play with the resident ducks..

My Maggie hadn't even noticed her duck and would've been sh*t scared of it, had she seen it! But apparently it's ok to take a duck to a park. Weird. I mean, .. yeah. Whatever. :laugh:

I think I have vastly underestimated the number of nutters who exist in society. :laugh:

Ummm... yep... ditto here!

T.

[rubiton]

Yep remember someone taking a mini pony/horse to a paws walk - older dog was just fascinated but she only wants to truly chase cats. Young dog he hasn't yet learnt not to try and chase.

[Maddy]

I think dogs that attack other dogs are a serious problem and should be dealt with accordingly and if they have killed or done serious damage to another dog should be PTS without question.

Dogs that will chase or harm other animals I think is slightly different mainly because many breeds were bred for that purpose.

My old mini poodle even having very little eyesight and arthritis in both back legs due to cruciate surgeries is still obsessed and would quite happily kill any rabbit/guinea pig she came across, yet with dogs, cats, ducks, ferrets she is friendly and social.

I think the real grey area is dogs that chase/harm cats, I think a dog that chases a cat should be managed properly and be kept well away from them in the future, a dog that kills a cat (in public not the dogs yard) should have the same outcome as a dog that has killed another dog.

I could not disagree with you more.

Generally speaking, it's a completely different thing. Dogs chase cats because of prey drive, there is no aggression behind it at all and the dog is just as safe as a dog that will chase rabbits or other small prey species.

If you believe that cats should be regarded as dogs, would you be okay with cats being PTS if they were caught killing other animals?

As an owner of dogs that would kill cats if they got the chance, every walk is a risk for us- most cats owners let their cats wander and I've had several close calls with cats dashing out of driveways past my dogs. If you give more than half a sh*t about the safety of your animal, don't let it wander to start with?

[aussielover]

I think the real grey area is dogs that chase/harm cats, I think a dog that chases a cat should be managed properly and be kept well away from them in the future, a dog that kills a cat (in public not the dogs yard) should have the same outcome as a dog that has killed another dog.

Surely keeping your cat contained within your own property would prevent this?

[tdierikx]

I think the real grey area is dogs that chase/harm cats, I think a dog that chases a cat should be managed properly and be kept well away from them in the future, a dog that kills a cat (in public not the dogs yard) should have the same outcome as a dog that has killed another dog.

Surely keeping your cat contained within your own property would prevent this?

But there aren't any laws stating that cats HAVE to be contained to their own property... stupid, I know, but that's how it is.

Keeping your dog from exercising it's prey drive in a public place is probably the best bet - whether that be a muzzle or other device, so be it.

T.

[Rebanne]

I think the real grey area is dogs that chase/harm cats, I think a dog that chases a cat should be managed properly and be kept well away from them in the future, a dog that kills a cat (in public not the dogs yard) should have the same outcome as a dog that has killed another dog.

Surely keeping your cat contained within your own property would prevent this?

But there aren't any laws stating that cats HAVE to be contained to their own property... stupid, I know, but that's how it is.

Keeping your dog from exercising it's prey drive in a public place is probably the best bet - whether that be a muzzle or other device, so be it.

T.

The cat laws depend where you live :)

[Maddy]

I think the real grey area is dogs that chase/harm cats, I think a dog that chases a cat should be managed properly and be kept well away from them in the future, a dog that kills a cat (in public not the dogs yard) should have the same outcome as a dog that has killed another dog.

Surely keeping your cat contained within your own property would prevent this?

But there aren't any laws stating that cats HAVE to be contained to their own property... stupid, I know, but that's how it is.

Keeping your dog from exercising it's prey drive in a public place is probably the best bet - whether that be a muzzle or other device, so be it.

T.

Obviously. But accidents can and do happen.

[melzawelza]

In NSW cats are allowed to wander and if a dog kills one on public property, even if it's on a leash, the legislation sees it as the same as if it killed another dog. Sad but true.

Personally, I think it's unlikely we'll ever end up with containment legislation for cats so in that case I'd like there to be a clause that if a cat is killed in public while wandering by a leashed dog, the onus is on the cat owner, not the dog. And I'm a cat owner, but mine are contained.

It'll never happen though.

[kayla1]

We DO have cat confinement laws in some areas already.

My area has the same requirement as that for dogs, which is containment on the owner's property at all times. Not sure how much of an effect it's had on roaming cats though.

[melzawelza]

We DO have cat confinement laws in some areas already.

My area has the same requirement as that for dogs, which is containment on the owner's property at all times. Not sure how much of an effect it's had on roaming cats though.

I specified that I was talking about NSW.

Edited July 14, 2013 by melzawelza

[tdierikx]

I think the real grey area is dogs that chase/harm cats, I think a dog that chases a cat should be managed properly and be kept well away from them in the future, a dog that kills a cat (in public not the dogs yard) should have the same outcome as a dog that has killed another dog.

Surely keeping your cat contained within your own property would prevent this?

But there aren't any laws stating that cats HAVE to be contained to their own property... stupid, I know, but that's how it is.

Keeping your dog from exercising it's prey drive in a public place is probably the best bet - whether that be a muzzle or other device, so be it.

T.

Obviously. But accidents can and do happen.

Sure they do - but we can minimise their occurrences too. If your dog is likely to home in on a smaller animal as prey, then maybe a muzzle in public is a worthwile investment... and that way accidents are less likely to happen, yes?

T.