Am I Expecting Too Much?

[minimax]

Time for a bit of tough love IMO - what do you do when he toilets inside?

I've been wondering what would be the right way to dole out some tough love in this situation? How to you do it Sandra?

I was on the verge of looking into it when Nixon started improving.

It's all well and good to only reward good behaviour, but how do you let them know that it's undesirable for them to pee inside, particularly if you don't catch them in the act?

I used the method of "time out", which really wasn't a punishment but more of a put in the kitchen without attention for a minute while I cleaned up the mess. But for my pup, withholding attention was a negative consequence and she hated it, and since she got such a huge positive reward for doing the right thing (happy noises and food treats), she quickly realised which was the better path of action to take (pee inside, no attention for a minute or so, pee outside and get attention and food. no brainer!)

[YvonneM]

I would expect one of mine ot be virtually perfect at 18 weeks but different breeds house train at different rates.

Time for a bit of tough love IMO - what do you do when he toilets inside?

The difficulty you have is that you don't have forever to sort this out. As Sandra has said, its time to make positive steps to remove any capacity for mistakes.

By around five months, you really need to have it sorted. That doesn't leave long.

Time to eliminate ANY chance for him to do it where you don't want it. If that means crating him when he cannot be carefully supervised, then that's what you need to do until mistakes are no longer an issue.

I can't crate him for 8 hours straight in one stretch!

[Starkehre]

Well done for asking the question.

Yes, expecting too much. Of course you have all the very best intentions and are doing a terrific job. It is a long time to expect any young pup to hold on for, and using a doggy door consistently at that age when you are not home is a big ask.

He isn't going to just suddenly grow out of fowling the house. Set him up for a win. Ensure that he cannot eliminate in the house when you can't be there to supervise him. Some good ideas have been suggested here. The crate covering the doggy door is wonderful, as long as it can be secured there and not be pushed away. Or leaving him in safe, warm area outdoors if possible.

Keep in mind that every time he eliminates inside the house, you are inadvertently proofing this behaviour. So, it isn't just going to go away after a certain amount of time doing what you are doing. You are expecting too much, but not necessarily because of his age or how long it has been. You are in affect teaching to eliminate in the house by allowing it to occur. The act is rewarding in itself.

Best of luck with him, he sounds just gorgeous. :)

[shapeshifter]

I was going to suggest the pen idea as well, get the fencing from bunnings in the garden section that clip together, set it up around the door and that way he will have more of an idea that he goes outside to pee, hopefully :)

I like the idea of the pen over the crate as it gives a little more room for him to play while you aren't at home but the crate will work just as well :)

[YvonneM]

Open the crate, and put the entrance over the dog door. This means Banjo now has an inside place to sleep (the crate), but no options but outside to pee (unless he wants to pee in his crate).

Every time Banjo makes a mistake, he learns that that is okay. Dogs are creatures of habit, so he is forming habits of peeing inside right now. You need to break those habits.

x2

Or use a play pen if you want him to have more space. Peeing is self-rewarding so every time he makes "mistake" it reinforces the behaviour.

So he either toilets in the main bathroom or outside, no where else inside? Obvious but - shut the bathroom door?

I would expect one of mine ot be virtually perfect at 18 weeks but different breeds house train at different rates.

Time for a bit of tough love IMO - what do you do when he toilets inside?

THere is no bathroom door to close! He is using the vanity area of the bathroom which is directly off the hallway - all open plan with large door openings so no option to close it off, otherwise I would, believe me !

If I see him coming out of the bathroom and he has toileted in there I say a firm and loud NO! and then proceed to clean up without any further fuss. If I see him heading to the bathroom I redirect him outside .... however, having said that he has an obsession with the floor waste drain and will often just sniff around the drain and wander away - he does that in our ensuite bathroom too ... and I have spoken to some other friends whose dogs seem to have a liking for the drain

[YvonneM]

I was going to suggest the pen idea as well, get the fencing from bunnings in the garden section that clip together, set it up around the door and that way he will have more of an idea that he goes outside to pee, hopefully :)

I like the idea of the pen over the crate as it gives a little more room for him to play while you aren't at home but the crate will work just as well :)

Ah-ha! I never thought of the fencing from bunnings .... it's compost fencing or something isn't it? That might solve the problem given that the house is so open plan and the doorways wide - being able to clip together the panels would work

[Salukifan]

THere is no bathroom door to close! He is using the vanity area of the bathroom which is directly off the hallway - all open plan with large door openings so no option to close it off, otherwise I would, believe me !

If I see him coming out of the bathroom and he has toileted in there I say a firm and loud NO! and then proceed to clean up without any further fuss. If I see him heading to the bathroom I redirect him outside .... however, having said that he has an obsession with the floor waste drain and will often just sniff around the drain and wander away - he does that in our ensuite bathroom too ... and I have spoken to some other friends whose dogs seem to have a liking for the drain

Would wider baby gates help?

The problem with saying something after he's toileted is that he's already done it - the horse has bolted.

This is what I mean by "if you can't watch him, crate him". It wont be forever but every time it happens, it reinforces the behaviour. So you have to make so that he can never make a mistake. If you are absolutely vigilent about this for just a couple of weeks, the worst will be over.

I think the idea of setting up a pen around the door door is a good one. Access to the wider house will be a privilege he will have to earn I"m afraid.

[YvonneM]

THere is no bathroom door to close! He is using the vanity area of the bathroom which is directly off the hallway - all open plan with large door openings so no option to close it off, otherwise I would, believe me !

If I see him coming out of the bathroom and he has toileted in there I say a firm and loud NO! and then proceed to clean up without any further fuss. If I see him heading to the bathroom I redirect him outside .... however, having said that he has an obsession with the floor waste drain and will often just sniff around the drain and wander away - he does that in our ensuite bathroom too ... and I have spoken to some other friends whose dogs seem to have a liking for the drain

Would wider baby gates help?

The problem with saying something after he's toileted is that he's already done it - the horse has bolted.

This is what I mean by "if you can't watch him, crate him". It wont be forever but every time it happens, it reinforces the behaviour. So you have to make so that he can never make a mistake. If you are absolutely vigilent about this for just a couple of weeks, the worst will be over.

I think the idea of setting up a pen around the door door is a good one. Access to the wider house will be a privilege he will have to earn I"m afraid.

THanks Haredown - yes, wider baby gates would help - Shapeshifter has suggested the fencing panels from Bunnings which I think might be the perfect solution - for now!

I do appreciate everyone's suggestions and input - I feel like I have some options that I had not thought of :)

[shapeshifter]

Yvonne yes the compost fencing is what I am talking about the good thing about it is that you can start small and increase the size as he gets better at knowing outside is the place to now pee. It's also big enough that he doesn't have to have access to the rest of the house and still feel like he's part of the family, as Haredown said he'll now have to earn the rest of the house, most dogs aren't stupid, he'll get it :)

[YvonneM]

Yvonne yes the compost fencing is what I am talking about the good thing about it is that you can start small and increase the size as he gets better at knowing outside is the place to now pee. It's also big enough that he doesn't have to have access to the rest of the house and still feel like he's part of the family, as Haredown said he'll now have to earn the rest of the house, most dogs aren't stupid, he'll get it :)

I think what I will do (initially) is use the panels to block access into the bathroom area - because that seems to be the place he wants to go if he doesn't go outside ... see, the funny thing is he WILL go outside on his own because I have seen him do it - and are are always taking him outside as well because we wanted to establish that from the day dot. If that doesn't work, them I will look at making his access to the "wider house" more limited - his crate is in our bedroom and he goes there to sleep during the day, so I really didn't want to restrict his access there.

Anyway - thanks again .... will come back with a progress report in due course :)

[aliwake]

Just thought I'd add that Nixon loves the bathroom drain too - he's always trying to dig through the bathmat to get to it! Must be something really good down there... He's not into the one in the shower so much, but he likes just sitting in there to hang out :) They're so funny!

Good luck with the compost panels - hopefully he won't just take that as encouragement to start toileting somewhere else inside.

If you can't get the panels, I bought a playpen from deals direct (or somewhere similar), for about $60 - the panels were 90cm high, and it was brilliant! of course, he did try to tear it down because he was confined inside it, but it was sturdy enough with some extra zip ties to nearby cupboards etc. I had some pretty ingenious rigging going on!

[YvonneM]

Just thought I'd add that Nixon loves the bathroom drain too - he's always trying to dig through the bathmat to get to it! Must be something really good down there... He's not into the one in the shower so much, but he likes just sitting in there to hang out :) They're so funny!

Good luck with the compost panels - hopefully he won't just take that as encouragement to start toileting somewhere else inside.

If you can't get the panels, I bought a playpen from deals direct (or somewhere similar), for about $60 - the panels were 90cm high, and it was brilliant! of course, he did try to tear it down because he was confined inside it, but it was sturdy enough with some extra zip ties to nearby cupboards etc. I had some pretty ingenious rigging going on!

Banjo too!! It's hilarious watching him digging up the mat just to sniff the drain :laugh: He has a thing for the fabric tags on the bath mats and towels as well - he's not satisfied until they have been torn off ..... tags on anything really - including his toys!

[Rebanne]

see, the funny thing is he WILL go outside on his own because I have seen him do it - and are are always taking him outside as well because we wanted to establish that from the day dot. If that doesn't work, them I will look at making his access to the "wider house" more limited - his crate is in our bedroom and he goes there to sleep during the day, so I really didn't want to restrict his access there.

Anyway - thanks again .... will come back with a progress report in due course :)

doesn't mean he fully understands that that is the only place to go though. Move the crate, no way I'd allow a pup full range of the house at this age.

[Steph M]

THere is no bathroom door to close! He is using the vanity area of the bathroom which is directly off the hallway - all open plan with large door openings so no option to close it off, otherwise I would, believe me !

If I see him coming out of the bathroom and he has toileted in there I say a firm and loud NO! and then proceed to clean up without any further fuss. If I see him heading to the bathroom I redirect him outside .... however, having said that he has an obsession with the floor waste drain and will often just sniff around the drain and wander away - he does that in our ensuite bathroom too ... and I have spoken to some other friends whose dogs seem to have a liking for the drain

Ours won't walk past stormwater drain covers without a good sniff. Haha.