Am I Expecting Too Much?

[YvonneM]

I feel like I am at my wits end, but please tell me if I am expecting too much from my pup - Banjo is almost 18 weeks old - we have had him from 8 weeks. For those who may not know, Banjo is a Maltese and he is just the most adorable little fellow, but I am having some problems with our toilet training.

He has slept right through the night since day 3 of him coming home to us - he is crated in a soft sided crate in our bedroom at night. We get up early (4am!) and I have been taking him outside as soon as we get up for a wee. Most times he will go, but he is easily distracted - wanting to play with leaves/sticks. Breeder had him using pee pads, so we continued using them for about a month after he came home, but removed them - toileting went backwards so we put them back and have just taken them away again last weekend. The weekend was good with no accidents in the house and he was alone several times over the weekend. We have always taken him outside to toilet after sleeps, meals and play times with pretty good success and he has also taken himself outside to toilet as well. Trouble is, he is still toileting inside - he is choosing our main bathroom - one that is never used and is easily cleaned up thankfully and following advice from knowledgable DOL'ers, I use vinegar to clean up with, but it seems not to deter him from going there.

He is home during the day from about 8am until 3.30pm alone and has adjusted quite well to this and we have no separation issues - just toileting. We monitor his behaviour and direct him outside when he looks like he is showing signs that he needs to pee or poo, but sometimes we miss those signs.

So, am I expecting too much from my 18 week old pup? I am finding it quite frustrating that I have to watch him almost every minute of the day when I am home. How are other puppy parents going with toilet training? Are your babies trained?

[Salukifan]

So, am I expecting too much from my 18 week old pup? I am finding it quite frustrating that I have to watch him almost every minute of the day when I am home. How are other puppy parents going with toilet training? Are your babies trained?

He is home during the day from about 8am until 3.30pm alone and has adjusted quite well to this and we have no separation issues - just toileting. We monitor his behaviour and direct him outside when he looks like he is showing

signs that he needs to pee or poo, but sometimes we miss those signs.

Does he have access outside during the day?

[Dame Aussie]

Where is he during the day when you aren't there? Does he have access to outside if you aren't around?

I do think you're expecting too much at this stage.

At 18 weeks he is still a baby and so can't hold on for long.

Also, as he is a baby, he is distracted by anything so when you take him out you need to stay there with him until he goes, just keep redirecting his attention and wait till he goes.

You just need to keep being consistent but I wouldn't expect an 18 week old to be reliably toilet trained. Sure, some are, but every dog is different, some take longer than others.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Aussie3

[minimax]

He won't be toilet trained at 18 weeks, so yes you're expecting too much ;)

When you used pee pads, were they in the place he's currently toileting inside?

At 18 weeks he won't be able to hold on all day, he will need to pee or poo, so unless you're coming home to let him outside, or he has access to outside, he needs somewhere to go.

My guys are 15 months and 19 months, and they have pee pads when I'm not home as they don't have access to outside. Is there a reason he can't use pee pads when you're not home?

Also, taking the pee pads away suddenly won't make any sense to him, if he's had them all his (short) life. You have to wean him off them. Some do this by moving the pee pad slowly closer to the door, even taking them out onto the grass so he can use them on the grass until he learns outside is the toileting place. But this is done over weeks, not in one day.

[YvonneM]

Okay, so I see I missed some important info :laugh:

When we are not at home he has a doggy door so he has access inside/outside 24/7.

Minimax - no, the pee pads are not in the place that he is currently toileting inside, they were in the family room so we could see if he headed there to pee, which he did often, and we would then redirect him outside - now he goes in the bathroom - where there have never been pee pads. Now every time we see that he heads there we redirect him.

I guess our downfall is that we are not home during the day, so he can go wherever he likes.

You have all confirmed it for me then, that I AM expecting too much - I just thought that by now we would at least have a 50% success rate!! Perhaps I need to put back the pee pads (again!), but I guess I worry that he will come to depend on them forever. Having never had a puppy this is all new and a steep learning curve for me.

At what age would you consider a puppy no longer a "baby"? He sure doesn't PLAY like a baby - those teeth :laugh:

[persephone]

Dogs who are allowed to toilet inside are confused .. and don't see a need to take themselves OUtside ;)

It is an owner's responsiblity to decide which one is to be the toilet spot ..and then spend quite a lot of time/effort in showing the puppy :)

is there no way he can be left outside during the day ?

[Salukifan]

Every time you change the goal posts, you derail what you're trying to teach.

What ARE you trying to teach - outside only?

How confident is he with the dog door?

[YvonneM]

Every time you change the goal posts, you derail what you're trying to teach.

What ARE you trying to teach - outside only?

How confident is he with the dog door?

Outside only is the goal.

He is fabulous with the doggy door - has had it down pat with absolute confidence since day 1 - teaching use of the doggy door was an absolute priority when he first came home and he had no problems whatsoever with it and happily uses it as he pleases.

What do you mean by changing the goalposts?

[Salukifan]

.

What do you mean by changing the goalposts?

You've gone from using pee pads inside, to no pee pads.

So one lesson was that "it's OK to pee inside".. and now you want outside only. So you've changed what he's supposed to do. Every time he pees inside now, reinforces that its OK to do it.

Can you restrict his access to the house when you aren't home? I'm thinking only the room the dog door is in???

[minimax]

Does he use the dog door when you're home, or walk out the main door with you to go bathroom?

If you take him outside using the main door to toilet, he might not have the association to go out the dog door to toilet when he's alone.

[persephone]

Think of him as a baby human ..and how tricky it is to get them to understand using a pot rather than a nappy !! Dogs don't think things thru like a human child .. so it needs to be done simply and specifically :)

[W Sibs]

Yeah, you are. Most dogs don't have full control of their bladder till they are 6 months old, so till then, you do have to watch them like a hawk.

Toilet training is all about consistency... when you aren't home, can you put him in a room where he has access to his doggie dog so he can go out if he wants/need too?

[YvonneM]

Our house is quite open plan so no option to lock him in only the room that has access to the doggy door, although I have closed off some rooms and there are baby gates on all bedrooms except for our bedroom because his crate is in there and he goes there to sleep during the day. Baby gates are mostly for his own safety so he can't get near power cords etc.

He has access to doggy door at all times - I guess I too am confused because I have seen him take himself outside to toilet - so I know he "gets it".

Haredown - the reason we used pee pads to begin with was because our breeder had used them - we felt that we didn't want to change everything in one hit when he left the security of living/sleeping with his mum and litter mates so having none of that familiarity so thought maintaining something he was used to was important for him. Perhaps we should have never used them in the first place - hindsight though!!

[Dame Aussie]

I think as long as you make it clear to him what you want, and be patient, you'll be fine :)

[ann21]

I live in an apartment and I did both inside and outside when my pup first came, and then transitioned to outside only at 6 months. I found having a playpen was very helpful when I was not home. Never had to worry about him going anywhere random to pee and he nearly always went to go on the newspaper when I was not home.

Edited for grammar.

Edited July 9, 2013 by ann21

[Leema]

Open the crate, and put the entrance over the dog door. This means Banjo now has an inside place to sleep (the crate), but no options but outside to pee (unless he wants to pee in his crate).

Every time Banjo makes a mistake, he learns that that is okay. Dogs are creatures of habit, so he is forming habits of peeing inside right now. You need to break those habits.

[aliwake]

I'd read that puppy pads were a bad idea, because then they learn to expect that sort of surface when they're toileting. So, we bought an inside toilet with a turf top for when we had Nixon in a playpen during the day, so it still felt like grass. He pooed there without fail from day one, but wees have still been hit and miss until just recently. He'd do most either outside or on his toilet, but every now and again we'd find one on the floor somewhere... He's 20 weeks.

The last week or so he's finally outside during the day when we're out, and his toileting has improved a lot.

Basically, we made it harder on ourselves by initially allowing inside toileting, and now phasing it out.

Maybe you could put a turf toilet in your bathroom, so at least he's going somewhere contained, and he's getting the right feeling for where to go?

We bought this one which was fairly well made, and a lot cheaper than some I've seen!

http://www.topbuy.com.au/tbcart/pc/Extra-Large-Pet-Indoor-Dog-Potty-Training-Toilet-Loo-Pad-3-Tier-76x51cm-p187234.htm

Good luck - I feel your pain!! :)

[Sandra777]

Open the crate, and put the entrance over the dog door. This means Banjo now has an inside place to sleep (the crate), but no options but outside to pee (unless he wants to pee in his crate).

Every time Banjo makes a mistake, he learns that that is okay. Dogs are creatures of habit, so he is forming habits of peeing inside right now. You need to break those habits.

x2

Or use a play pen if you want him to have more space. Peeing is self-rewarding so every time he makes "mistake" it reinforces the behaviour.

So he either toilets in the main bathroom or outside, no where else inside? Obvious but - shut the bathroom door?

I would expect one of mine ot be virtually perfect at 18 weeks but different breeds house train at different rates.

Time for a bit of tough love IMO - what do you do when he toilets inside?

[Salukifan]

I would expect one of mine ot be virtually perfect at 18 weeks but different breeds house train at different rates.

Time for a bit of tough love IMO - what do you do when he toilets inside?

The difficulty you have is that you don't have forever to sort this out. As Sandra has said, its time to make positive steps to remove any capacity for mistakes.

By around five months, you really need to have it sorted. That doesn't leave long.

Time to eliminate ANY chance for him to do it where you don't want it. If that means crating him when he cannot be carefully supervised, then that's what you need to do until mistakes are no longer an issue.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[aliwake]

Time for a bit of tough love IMO - what do you do when he toilets inside?

I've been wondering what would be the right way to dole out some tough love in this situation? How to you do it Sandra?

I was on the verge of looking into it when Nixon started improving.

It's all well and good to only reward good behaviour, but how do you let them know that it's undesirable for them to pee inside, particularly if you don't catch them in the act?