Jumping Into Raw - Advice Needed!

[Lexi-Taj]

We have a 5year old Lab kelpie cross, whom we feed a mostly Raw diet to. I say mostly Raw as we still give him his dry food 1-2 times a week. We now have a 12 week old puppy and we are hoping to do the same.

The reason I still feed some dry food is that Taj (5) WON'T eat his organs or any vegetable matter (not much given) at all, we don't want him to be missing anything vital so figured the dry could possibly help give him what he's missing.

With new pup I would like to mix raw and dry, again only because during this developmental stage I don't want to miss anything she may need.

Is this alright? From the experienced people in the know am I able to do a mix of the two (raw one or two days, then dry, then raw) or is this just not going to work?

So far Taj (5) gets chicken necks, frames, turkey necks, ox tail, beef tail, sardines, lamb heart, beef mince, red meaty bones, raw eggs, Greek yogurt, and his dry food. We are hoping to feed Indie similar but in a smaller ammount and I'd I can convince her liver/kidney if she'll eat it (Taj will not). Any suggestions?

Any pointers, should I just stick to one or another or can the mix be ok so my babies don't become deficient in something vital?

[twodoggies2001]

We have a 5year old Lab kelpie cross, whom we feed a mostly Raw diet to. I say mostly Raw as we still give him his dry food 1-2 times a week. We now have a 12 week old puppy and we are hoping to do the same.

The reason I still feed some dry food is that Taj (5) WON'T eat his organs or any vegetable matter (not much given) at all, we don't want him to be missing anything vital so figured the dry could possibly help give him what he's missing.

With new pup I would like to mix raw and dry, again only because during this developmental stage I don't want to miss anything she may need.

Is this alright? From the experienced people in the know am I able to do a mix of the two (raw one or two days, then dry, then raw) or is this just not going to work?

So far Taj (5) gets chicken necks, frames, turkey necks, ox tail, beef tail, sardines, lamb heart, beef mince, red meaty bones, raw eggs, Greek yogurt, and his dry food. We are hoping to feed Indie similar but in a smaller ammount and I'd I can convince her liver/kidney if she'll eat it (Taj will not). Any suggestions?

Any pointers, should I just stick to one or another or can the mix be ok so my babies don't become deficient in something vital?

As I pointed out in another thread today, I just transitioned my baby puppy onto raw within a couple of days excluding the dry food. I would go slowly with the variety of cuts you are giving, but I would add a very small amount of offal so the pup gets a taste for it. Good luck

[Lexi-Taj]

We have a 5year old Lab kelpie cross, whom we feed a mostly Raw diet to. I say mostly Raw as we still give him his dry food 1-2 times a week. We now have a 12 week old puppy and we are hoping to do the same.

The reason I still feed some dry food is that Taj (5) WON'T eat his organs or any vegetable matter (not much given) at all, we don't want him to be missing anything vital so figured the dry could possibly help give him what he's missing.

With new pup I would like to mix raw and dry, again only because during this developmental stage I don't want to miss anything she may need.

Is this alright? From the experienced people in the know am I able to do a mix of the two (raw one or two days, then dry, then raw) or is this just not going to work?

So far Taj (5) gets chicken necks, frames, turkey necks, ox tail, beef tail, sardines, lamb heart, beef mince, red meaty bones, raw eggs, Greek yogurt, and his dry food. We are hoping to feed Indie similar but in a smaller ammount and I'd I can convince her liver/kidney if she'll eat it (Taj will not). Any suggestions?

Any pointers, should I just stick to one or another or can the mix be ok so my babies don't become deficient in something vital?

As I pointed out in another thread today, I just transitioned my baby puppy onto raw within a couple of days excluding the dry food. I would go slowly with the variety of cuts you are giving, but I would add a very small amount of offal so the pup gets a taste for it. Good luck

Thank you :) hopefully she will take to the offal unlike her big brother :) if she doesn't is there any harm is feeding a kettle dry to make sure she doesn't miss out on anything vital?

[twodoggies2001]

We have a 5year old Lab kelpie cross, whom we feed a mostly Raw diet to. I say mostly Raw as we still give him his dry food 1-2 times a week. We now have a 12 week old puppy and we are hoping to do the same.

The reason I still feed some dry food is that Taj (5) WON'T eat his organs or any vegetable matter (not much given) at all, we don't want him to be missing anything vital so figured the dry could possibly help give him what he's missing.

With new pup I would like to mix raw and dry, again only because during this developmental stage I don't want to miss anything she may need.

Is this alright? From the experienced people in the know am I able to do a mix of the two (raw one or two days, then dry, then raw) or is this just not going to work?

So far Taj (5) gets chicken necks, frames, turkey necks, ox tail, beef tail, sardines, lamb heart, beef mince, red meaty bones, raw eggs, Greek yogurt, and his dry food. We are hoping to feed Indie similar but in a smaller ammount and I'd I can convince her liver/kidney if she'll eat it (Taj will not). Any suggestions?

Any pointers, should I just stick to one or another or can the mix be ok so my babies don't become deficient in something vital?

As I pointed out in another thread today, I just transitioned my baby puppy onto raw within a couple of days excluding the dry food. I would go slowly with the variety of cuts you are giving, but I would add a very small amount of offal so the pup gets a taste for it. Good luck

Thank you :) hopefully she will take to the offal unlike her big brother :) if she doesn't is there any harm is feeding a kettle dry to make sure she doesn't miss out on anything vital?

Pardon my ignorence, but what is kettle dry?

[minimax]

We have a 5year old Lab kelpie cross, whom we feed a mostly Raw diet to. I say mostly Raw as we still give him his dry food 1-2 times a week. We now have a 12 week old puppy and we are hoping to do the same.

The reason I still feed some dry food is that Taj (5) WON'T eat his organs or any vegetable matter (not much given) at all, we don't want him to be missing anything vital so figured the dry could possibly help give him what he's missing.

With new pup I would like to mix raw and dry, again only because during this developmental stage I don't want to miss anything she may need.

Is this alright? From the experienced people in the know am I able to do a mix of the two (raw one or two days, then dry, then raw) or is this just not going to work?

So far Taj (5) gets chicken necks, frames, turkey necks, ox tail, beef tail, sardines, lamb heart, beef mince, red meaty bones, raw eggs, Greek yogurt, and his dry food. We are hoping to feed Indie similar but in a smaller ammount and I'd I can convince her liver/kidney if she'll eat it (Taj will not). Any suggestions?

Any pointers, should I just stick to one or another or can the mix be ok so my babies don't become deficient in something vital?

As I pointed out in another thread today, I just transitioned my baby puppy onto raw within a couple of days excluding the dry food. I would go slowly with the variety of cuts you are giving, but I would add a very small amount of offal so the pup gets a taste for it. Good luck

Thank you :) hopefully she will take to the offal unlike her big brother :) if she doesn't is there any harm is feeding a kettle dry to make sure she doesn't miss out on anything vital?

Pardon my ignorence, but what is kettle dry?

auto-correct for "little" ;)

[twodoggies2001]

We have a 5year old Lab kelpie cross, whom we feed a mostly Raw diet to. I say mostly Raw as we still give him his dry food 1-2 times a week. We now have a 12 week old puppy and we are hoping to do the same.

The reason I still feed some dry food is that Taj (5) WON'T eat his organs or any vegetable matter (not much given) at all, we don't want him to be missing anything vital so figured the dry could possibly help give him what he's missing.

With new pup I would like to mix raw and dry, again only because during this developmental stage I don't want to miss anything she may need.

Is this alright? From the experienced people in the know am I able to do a mix of the two (raw one or two days, then dry, then raw) or is this just not going to work?

So far Taj (5) gets chicken necks, frames, turkey necks, ox tail, beef tail, sardines, lamb heart, beef mince, red meaty bones, raw eggs, Greek yogurt, and his dry food. We are hoping to feed Indie similar but in a smaller ammount and I'd I can convince her liver/kidney if she'll eat it (Taj will not). Any suggestions?

Any pointers, should I just stick to one or another or can the mix be ok so my babies don't become deficient in something vital?

As I pointed out in another thread today, I just transitioned my baby puppy onto raw within a couple of days excluding the dry food. I would go slowly with the variety of cuts you are giving, but I would add a very small amount of offal so the pup gets a taste for it. Good luck

Thank you :) hopefully she will take to the offal unlike her big brother :) if she doesn't is there any harm is feeding a kettle dry to make sure she doesn't miss out on anything vital?

Pardon my ignorence, but what is kettle dry?

auto-correct for "little" ;)

If you have any puppy dry in the house, I would use it up, just adding a little. Your raw diet for your older dog looks good to me.

[Dory the Doted One]

I've got two exclusively fed raw feeders here. One puppy, adult. Dory (adult) will also not touch offal with a barge pole, no matter how you disguise it. She gets eggs, sardines (tinned...she hated the dried fish and not keen on raw) and the occasional supplement.

Willow got offal early, at first she wasn't too sure but now she's more than happy.

I actually find it challenging to do both, as the dogs get too fat and then the raw food ends up being so small in portion that it's a pain to manage. I'm also not too fond of 'dog food poo', I still get some formed and some not. On raw, even the odd soft poo is loads easier to pick up.

[Yonjuro]

It kind of depends whether you go PREY model or BARF with your raw feeding. I am an advocate of Prey model, but you will have problems if you can't feed offal. Raw mixed with dry is considered a no-no as the foods will digest a different rates. It is okay to feed brekkie in kibble and dinner in raw or vice versa but this is straying from a raw diet.

You could try whole fish (non-gutted) and see how you go, something like a herring or whiting to start. But you really need to give a variety of foods to get a balanced diet.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Yonjuro

[minyvlz]

The sardines you feed are the raw kind or the tinned ones? If they're raw, at least you're getting some organs. If they're tinned, eat them yourself. DTDO - If your dogs eat tinned fish, they are not exclusively raw fed.

As for organ, have you tried mixing it in mince, searing the outside, sticking it down his throat, doling it out as a treat/reward, freezing them, hiding it in half a chicken, trying different protein sources, accidentally dropping them, practising tough love (i.e. no other food unless he eats his organs)?

Personally I would not feed my lot any of the stuff you feed your older dog (save the eggs and lamb heart), so I'm not of any help there, sorry. From what you detailed though, it seems like WAY too much calcium, what more with kibble. I would not raise any pup on kibble ever again, much less kibble with so much added bone.

I would say feed the pup separately and not let the older dog's distaste of organs influence him. Introduce a variety of meats, cuts and protein sources as early as you can (depending on tolerance). Plus try whole prey for both dogs like rabbit, fish or quail.

Raw meat (not bones) mixed with kibble is fine, but that defeats the reason of feeding either - I assume dry for convenience and raw for optimal health and knowing what exactly you're feeding. Even cooking/dehydrating/baking the organs is better than feeding kibble, not that it's recommended!

[minimax]

If you have to stick food down your dogs throat perhaps It's not the most appropriate food for the dog.

Not every dog likes every food, feed What it does best on, not What some "method" tells you that you have to feed.

[minyvlz]

If it comes to that or feeding kibble, I would definitely ensure my dog gets what's required and not get a deficiency in minerals and nutrients. If that means I have to stick food down my dog's throat, just like I do pills, that's what I'll do. Perhaps pills are not appropriate for dogs too and we should never give any dog medication?

Many people feed what they think their dog does best on and jeopardise his health later down the path. Any dog can survive on Pedigree or even mince and rice and appear healthy. If OP wants to feed a proper raw diet, there are some components that cannot be negotiated upon.

ETA: Maybe I can also say then: If you have to cook your dog's food out of unfit-for-human-consumption products and later add 'nutrients' and preservatives into it to last your dog months/if your dog's food has to be scientifically formulated by humans (a species that is battling our own diet-related diseases such as T2 diabetes and obesity) in a lab..... then perhaps it's not the most appropriate food for the dog.

If your dog turns his nose up at organs but loves & thrives on maccas or kitty poop or krapple, I guess that is the best food for your dog . Good luck!

Edited July 4, 2013 by minyvlz

[Dory the Doted One]

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Edited July 4, 2013 by Dory the Doted One

[RiverStar-Aura]

If it comes to that or feeding kibble, I would definitely ensure my dog gets what's required and not get a deficiency in minerals and nutrients. If that means I have to stick food down my dog's throat, just like I do pills, that's what I'll do. Perhaps pills are not appropriate for dogs too and we should never give any dog medication?

Many people feed what they think their dog does best on and jeopardise his health later down the path. Any dog can survive on Pedigree or even mince and rice and appear healthy. If OP wants to feed a proper raw diet, there are some components that cannot be negotiated upon.

ETA: Maybe I can also say then: If you have to cook your dog's food out of unfit-for-human-consumption products and later add 'nutrients' and preservatives into it to last your dog months/if your dog's food has to be scientifically formulated by humans (a species that is battling our own diet-related diseases such as T2 diabetes and obesity) in a lab..... then perhaps it's not the most appropriate food for the dog.

If your dog turns his nose up at organs but loves & thrives on maccas or kitty poop or krapple, I guess that is the best food for your dog . Good luck!

And this is why I stay out of all discussions regarding diet. *eye roll*

[minimax]

If it comes to that or feeding kibble, I would definitely ensure my dog gets what's required and not get a deficiency in minerals and nutrients. If that means I have to stick food down my dog's throat, just like I do pills, that's what I'll do. Perhaps pills are not appropriate for dogs too and we should never give any dog medication?

Many people feed what they think their dog does best on and jeopardise his health later down the path. Any dog can survive on Pedigree or even mince and rice and appear healthy. If OP wants to feed a proper raw diet, there are some components that cannot be negotiated upon.

ETA: Maybe I can also say then: If you have to cook your dog's food out of unfit-for-human-consumption products and later add 'nutrients' and preservatives into it to last your dog months/if your dog's food has to be scientifically formulated by humans (a species that is battling our own diet-related diseases such as T2 diabetes and obesity) in a lab..... then perhaps it's not the most appropriate food for the dog.

If your dog turns his nose up at organs but loves & thrives on maccas or kitty poop or krapple, I guess that is the best food for your dog . Good luck!

And this is why I stay out of all discussions regarding diet. *eye roll*

+1

I'm all for a serious discussion, but once it gets down to your method is wrong/mine is right it just gets boring.

And do you really think you're convincing anyone that your method is excellent, with your attitude?

I'm a raw feeder and you're not even convincing me.

Edited July 4, 2013 by minimax

[teekay]

The sardines you feed are the raw kind or the tinned ones? If they're raw, at least you're getting some organs. If they're tinned, eat them yourself. DTDO - If your dogs eat tinned fish, they are not exclusively raw fed.

As for organ, have you tried mixing it in mince, searing the outside, sticking it down his throat, doling it out as a treat/reward, freezing them, hiding it in half a chicken, trying different protein sources, accidentally dropping them, practising tough love (i.e. no other food unless he eats his organs)?

Personally I would not feed my lot any of the stuff you feed your older dog (save the eggs and lamb heart), so I'm not of any help there, sorry. From what you detailed though, it seems like WAY too much calcium, what more with kibble. I would not raise any pup on kibble ever again, much less kibble with so much added bone.

I would say feed the pup separately and not let the older dog's distaste of organs influence him. Introduce a variety of meats, cuts and protein sources as early as you can (depending on tolerance). Plus try whole prey for both dogs like rabbit, fish or quail.

Raw meat (not bones) mixed with kibble is fine, but that defeats the reason of feeding either - I assume dry for convenience and raw for optimal health and knowing what exactly you're feeding. Even cooking/dehydrating/baking the organs is better than feeding kibble, not that it's recommended!

Could you please explain what is wrong with the stuff the OP feeds her adult dog? If you do not feed your dog any of the listed things. What do they eat? Ithought it was a pretty comprehensive list.

[Lexi-Taj]

Thanks for all the info guys! I appreciate it. I hope I didn't start a forum fight that was not my intention on posting this question. Sorry guys.

Is there anything I should add to my list of foods?

I have tried, freezing, lightly searing, chopping into tiny bits and mixing with mince, even blending and mixing it into his egg mixture.... But Taj wont touch organ.. I won't 'stuff it down his throat' as I want him to eat it not be traumatized by it :)

Indie (puppy) did eat a little chicken kidney, Taj once again left his.. So it looks like Indy will maybe eat the organ hurrah.

Interesting point about dry food and raw food digesting at different rates. I didn't know this. I assume it's a bad idea then to do it?

[minimax]

Thanks for all the info guys! I appreciate it. I hope I didn't start a forum fight that was not my intention on posting this question. Sorry guys.

Is there anything I should add to my list of foods?

I have tried, freezing, lightly searing, chopping into tiny bits and mixing with mince, even blending and mixing it into his egg mixture.... But Taj wont touch organ.. I won't 'stuff it down his throat' as I want him to eat it not be traumatized by it :)

Indie (puppy) did eat a little chicken kidney, Taj once again left his.. So it looks like Indy will maybe eat the organ hurrah.

Interesting point about dry food and raw food digesting at different rates. I didn't know this. I assume it's a bad idea then to do it?

When you eat do you separate your food groups by digestion rates?

[Podengo]

When you eat do you separate your food groups by digestion rates?

That's my thoughts on the digestion rate thing. Do you also split meat and bone apart and feed at different times? What about different types of meat? For raw feeders that feed veggies, do you split those by digestion rate too? What happens if they eat their raw and then go outside and eat poop? Is that going to digest too fast and hurt them? :laugh:

[Yonjuro]

Thanks for all the info guys! I appreciate it. I hope I didn't start a forum fight that was not my intention on posting this question. Sorry guys.

Is there anything I should add to my list of foods?

I have tried, freezing, lightly searing, chopping into tiny bits and mixing with mince, even blending and mixing it into his egg mixture.... But Taj wont touch organ.. I won't 'stuff it down his throat' as I want him to eat it not be traumatized by it :)

Indie (puppy) did eat a little chicken kidney, Taj once again left his.. So it looks like Indy will maybe eat the organ hurrah.

Interesting point about dry food and raw food digesting at different rates. I didn't know this. I assume it's a bad idea then to do it?

When you eat do you separate your food groups by digestion rates?

No, because I am a true omnivore.

The enzymes and acid in my stomach have evolved to process meat and vegies at similar times. Apart from corn that is :laugh:

The theory is that raw food digests very fast, but kibble is very slow, there is one school of thought that says the raw will stay too long in the system when combined with the kibble so this can cause the meat to begin fermentation. There are many that follow this rationale. There are also those that don't believe it makes any difference. Regarding the bones think of them as a slow release vitamin, the calcium and other minerals are released over a period of time.

If you are feeding vegies they should be steamed and or pureed as dogs don't have the same enzymes we omnivores have, dogs highly acidic guts wont process them like we do. Without this the vegies act more as a filler and roughage. Vegies are part of the BARF model but I am more PREY model so don't take my word for it.

I personally don't believe that mixed is going to be better, if you are really worried about making sure you are not depriving the dog of some essential elements, buy a supplement to go with the raw food you can get your dog to eat. Most raw advocates will say that taking the supplements is more for the owners peace of mind rather than a requirement for the dog (assuming you can roughly follow the organ ratios)

[twodoggies2001]

Thanks for all the info guys! I appreciate it. I hope I didn't start a forum fight that was not my intention on posting this question. Sorry guys.

Is there anything I should add to my list of foods?

I have tried, freezing, lightly searing, chopping into tiny bits and mixing with mince, even blending and mixing it into his egg mixture.... But Taj wont touch organ.. I won't 'stuff it down his throat' as I want him to eat it not be traumatized by it :)

Indie (puppy) did eat a little chicken kidney, Taj once again left his.. So it looks like Indy will maybe eat the organ hurrah.

Interesting point about dry food and raw food digesting at different rates. I didn't know this. I assume it's a bad idea then to do it?

When you eat do you separate your food groups by digestion rates?

No, because I am a true omnivore.

The enzymes and acid in my stomach have evolved to process meat and vegies at similar times. Apart from corn that is :laugh:

The theory is that raw food digests very fast, but kibble is very slow, there is one school of thought that says the raw will stay too long in the system when combined with the kibble so this can cause the meat to begin fermentation. There are many that follow this rationale. There are also those that don't believe it makes any difference. Regarding the bones think of them as a slow release vitamin, the calcium and other minerals are released over a period of time.

If you are feeding vegies they should be steamed and or pureed as dogs don't have the same enzymes we omnivores have, dogs highly acidic guts wont process them like we do. Without this the vegies act more as a filler and roughage. Vegies are part of the BARF model but I am more PREY model so don't take my word for it.

I personally don't believe that mixed is going to be better, if you are really worried about making sure you are not depriving the dog of some essential elements, buy a supplement to go with the raw food you can get your dog to eat. Most raw advocates will say that taking the supplements is more for the owners peace of mind rather than a requirement for the dog (assuming you can roughly follow the organ ratios)

For the veggies, I neither steam or puree. All that needs to be done when fed raw is grated to break them up for the dogs to get the benefit rather than the veggies acting as a filler. I have also heard that raw meat and kibble digest at different rates. Some will advocate that this is untrue, and frankly, I wouldn't know because I have chosen not to feed kibble.