Pulling On The Lead

[Rusky]

Now I must say first, this suggestion is what I began to use in desperation, so I think that it is a last resort, however I prefer it over different harnesses etc, I carry a dressage cane, (Long whip, although some people I know use a lengh of polypipe) now do not hit the dog! as you walk swing the cane back and forth in front of you, as the dog goes to go past you, let it tap the dog on the nose, keep swinging the cane, each time they try to go past they will get a tap, if they stay back it won't affect them at all, use the lead to keep the dog in range of the cane.

Also you can teach the dog to like the cane, by stroking the dog with it and rewarding it with it, I repeat you do not need to "hit" your dog, just let your dog run into the swinging cane,(Polypipe is good in as far as it make a noise) this worked really well with my dog, and has the added benifit that if another dog attacks mine whilst I am walking I have a simple defence.

for goodness sake I have no idea where you got this info from but have a rethink, sounds like a trot back to the dark ages. maybe read the stuff that has been posted on this thread and change tact. I think your dog would like it better, in fact I know your dog would like it better.

[Guest Tess32]

I was under the impression that you don't use a check chain to pull the dog back to you.

What i was taught is that you use a check chain to give a quick 'check' which catches the dog's attention to make it wonder what is going on. Thereby giving the handler its attention so that it can be given a command on what to do next. Of course, praise should be aplied liberally when it is doing what is' meant to.

Situation - you are walking your dog, it starts to lose interest and wander off to the side, before it gets too far, you give a quick 'check' and it looks at you as if to say 'what's happening!' and you show it that you actually want to walk straight, giving praise and cuddles when it comes to your side.

But as i said, that was just the impression i got - any experienced handlers that can please let me know the right way?

I've never heard of that as the reason *for* correction chains.

I thought the whole point of a check chain was to *correct* the dog, not to get the dog's attention.

You cannot or should not correct a dog that hasn't yet been taught what to do and yanking the chain to get the dog's attention is not a correction. You'd be basically replacing vital commands like "attention" or "watch" or even the dog's name with a check chain.

Nat

[pgm]

If you are thinking of using a check chain, can I suggest you get a copy of the Koehler Method of Dog Training. It has a step by step method that will work on just about any dog, regardless of breed or age. If the method is followed correctly you will have your dog walking on a loose lead within the first or second session.

There is no yanking or pulling on the check chain with this method. Try it, you'll be surprised at its effectiveness.

[Kavik]

Here is a link to a book review on Koehler - I'll leave it up to you to make up your own mind about the method.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0...7779300-3974212

I use check chains when required, but I do not use the Koehler method, I use food and tug rewards mostly, the check chain to get the dog's attention if it wanders. I am thinking of even changing to a martingale instead of a check chain on my dogs. If you have a sensitive dog, I would not recommend Koehler.

One club I instructed at (that trains security dogs) uses a similar method to Koehler. While it works fine for security type dogs, I found it way to harsh for my Kelpie cross. I also saw more dogs come 'up lead' to try to bite their handlers when corrected than I had seen in my life.

[Kavik]

From an online lecture on the Koehler method:

*****************************************

The Foundation (chapter 3) for The Koehler Method of Dog Training is a process using the dog’s own “right of choice.” Allow me to outline the foundation work for those not familiar with it (it’s a real attention getter). As early as day number three, the dog is brought onto the training field from a place of solitary confinement where he has been for about two hours. He has not eaten in 4 hours, nor has he consumed any water for one hour. He is wearing a properly fitted choke collar and a fifteen foot longe line. You arrive at a predetermined position on the field, which you have selected as a starting point.

While at the starting point you place the thumb of your right hand into the loop of the longe line and close your fist around the handle. Place your left hand directly under your right and close a fist around the line and let the balance of the line drop to the ground. Now, silently move toward a fixed object of reference 50 feet ahead. Oh but wait, you exclaim, does this author not understand that if I drop the fifteen feet of slack to the dog he will move directly toward anything that might distract him? Yes, and so did Mr. Koehler. We fully recognize, as should you, that the dog who goes toward the distraction does so as a matter of choice.

You too are granted the right of choice, and in this case, your choice will be to turn away from the dog’s line of travel and move, with equal determination, in a direction opposite his. Before long, the slack is consumed, and the dog is made very uncomfortable. His good senses will tell him that the resulting discomfort was something other than what he expected when he chose to go in the direction of the distraction. His instincts will be to somehow lessen the discomfort around his neck, and when he finally moves toward you, also an act of his choosing, the line will indeed slacken and the dog will have made a more correct choice; one which results in comfort.

************************************************************

http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/

[Rusky]

Thank you Kavik

[pgm]

One club I instructed at (that trains security dogs) uses a similar method to Koehler. While it works fine for security type dogs, I found it way to harsh for my Kelpie cross. I also saw more dogs come 'up lead' to try to bite their handlers when corrected than I had seen in my life.

A similar method to Koehler? They are either following the method or they are not. Many trainers will tell you that they use Koehler, when in fact they are using a bastardized version.

As for dogs coming up the leash, I know about half a dozen Koehler trainers who combined have trained or been involved in training over 100,000 dogs. You can count on a single hand how many dogs have come up the leash using these methods.

Look, I don't care whether people use check chains or not, train your dog with whatever you feel comfortable with. But if you are going to use a check chain, you should use it correctly. The Koehler method is one of the best methods ever invented for the check chain, it was written for the average person who does not have access to trainers.

Furthermore, if you use the method correctly, it does not matter whether your dog is sensitive or not - it simply works.

[Guest Tess32]

I haven't read Koehler yet, but I have to agree with pgm - if they aren't using the exact method then it's not fair to place it under his name.

Changing a part of any training program would change the nature of what was intended IMO.

Nat

[cindy's mum]

i just want to thank you all for replying,i just wanted to add that i'm using a halti because my vet recommended it,i may have to rethink this,and also to urban,i have tried your method and am getting some results so wish me luck!!!!

[Lablover]

i just want to thank you all for replying,i just wanted to add that i'm using a halti because my vet recommended it,i may have to rethink this,and also to urban,i have tried your method and am getting some results so wish me luck!!!!

I have never used a halti, as I have not the need.

That being said, by training, we are trying as mere humans to form a way of COMMUNICATING with our dogs.

Remember to start with a known command. The dog will enjoy its praise for the correct response (like sit). If the dog is confused while teaching other commands, break the stress, by using the known command again. They tend to focus better if from time to time they get something right, LOL.

[Rusky]

I have read koehler but I also agree with pgm that if you use a chain it should be used correctly, I said that about 10 posts back.

I don't like chains, I think they should all be melted down into ornamental gates or something. Except very few which would be used by extremely experienced dog handler/trainers.

There are trainers who use chains for 'last resort' dogs.

I do not think this lady is using the halti correctly.

[Kavik]

Well, it certainly was a traditional type method, use check chains, verbal and physical praise and no food or toys. I don't know many clubs or trainers who stick exclusively to the exact style of one trainer. They certainly did use the part of the method I highlighted in my last post. And I did see LOTS of dogs come up lead. Mostly redirected aggression, either they were dog aggressive and came up when corrected for going another dog, or when doing protection and they had to leave the decoy or were practicing false attacks.

There are many ways to use a check chain, most clubs that use them now use them for attention. It is actually becoming more and more difficult to find a club that will let you use them.

[Rusky]

You are right Kavik a few people on here have used check chains which can't be used to choke but can give a noise warning. Someone posted a pic of one a while ago.

I also agree that a wide variety of methods are used and combined. I don't think there is one that can be completely correct for every situation and dog. It interests me too that people who first describe certain methods always want to discredit another method.

Koehler was THE one and only for years and the guard dog training I believe but someone can correct me is still the preferred method.

I do not like chains, have never liked them have always thought that praise and reward is far better. This does not mean that I do not have huge respect for Koehler, I do.

I do however realise that there are many with specialised skills who will use methods necessary for the dog at certain times. I know trainers who use chains and I have enormous respect for them I do not think they should be used as part of basic socialising obedience.

I do not think that Joe Soap should be able to just go and buy them at the local discount store.