Big Dog Control

[persephone]

I just wanted to add that I think you are doing the right thing not allowing any other dogs around her just yet. IMHO there is plenty of time for that. Much more important to get her responding/bonding with you & learning some basic obedience first.

She's lovely & good on you for trying to help her :)

yes- and lots of new things/training will probably do their work in helping keep her settled.

What do you know about her? Why has she been so long at the shelter?

[Loreley]

All I know is that she was picked up wandering in Shellharbour and was transferred to the Sydney shelter because they thought she would have a better chance of being placed. The only thing that I can see that has stopped her being placed is her size.

[dandybrush]

i'd say catahoula x personally good luck with her training sounds like you are very invested

[*kirty*]

She looks like a pigging mix or roo mix - I'm sure I can see Greyhound in there. She is very cute. :)

[Loreley]

I just wanted to add that I think you are doing the right thing not allowing any other dogs around her just yet. IMHO there is plenty of time for that. Much more important to get her responding/bonding with you & learning some basic obedience first.

She's lovely & good on you for trying to help her :)

yes- and lots of new things/training will probably do their work in helping keep her settled.

What do you know about her? Why has she been so long at the shelter?

The shelter really has no idea, she is sweet and gentle and trains easily the only thing I can see is maybe her size but at 25kgs she's really not that big, about the size of a rough collie.

[Loreley]

Might need a bigger bed though

[Staffyluv]

If you want to try a sporn type halter/harness on her, I have one you can borrow - happy to post it up.

I bought one for Zig (actually we have 2 different types of this harness and neither worked on my puller) and we don't use it at all.

Zig is 27kg staffy mix, so a decent sized boy and very strong - since changing him to a martingale collar, we have made loads of progress.

She is very pretty - such amazing colouring.

[persephone]

She is so beautiful!! :) :)

[Loreley]

She's actually not too bad on the pulling now that she's had time to settle, I will be picking up a smaller martingale hopefully tomorrow, the one I have is too big for her.

There is no way she is 2 years old though. Still doing the puppy thing chewing stuff and digging holes and still sucks on your fingers. I recon she would have been lucky to be 6 months when they picked her up to be honest which would make her 12 months now.

[persephone]

Awwwww.... :)

I think it is a very good thing I am having a companion dog hiatus just now .... otherwise I would be drooling :p

[Loreley]

Awwwww.... :)

I think it is a very good thing I am having a companion dog hiatus just now .... otherwise I would be drooling :p

[Santo66]

IMHO there are three ways to train a dog to walk nicely on leash, one is with rewards the other aversion or a combination of both. Collar wise, reward based training can be achieved on an ordinary flat collar, a martingale for added mild aversion or a prong collar for aversion based training.......the rest, halties, harnesses and other like gizmo's are a load of crap unless you want to merely manage an unruly dog and not train it :D

[corvus]

IMHO there is one way to grossly simplify training a deceptively complex behaviour subject to vast individual and environmental variation.... ;)

[Nekhbet]

My clients have had great results using it for social walking their pups or adults

It stops about 75% of pulling, without hurting the dog at all

Of course it causes discomfort otherwise how does it stop pulling? Armpits are sensitive parts of the body, the sheepskin is there so the ropes dont rip the skin to shreds from the sawing action of the harness.

collar wise, reward based training can be achieved on an ordinary flat collar, a martingale for added mild aversion or a prong collar for aversion based training

The level of aversion is solely dependent on the dog, not the equipment. Some dogs find a flat collar highly aversive and some dogs find prong collars mildly aversive at best, some not at all. This is why people need to read their dogs and not just have preconceived notions about equipment. Some dogs will bash and scrape their faces bloody with a 'gentle' head halter because they find them so aversive.

Prong collars can also be used solely in reinforcement based training.

Learn to read your dog, it will get your further in training and you'll spend less money on marketing and gimicks.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Nekhbet

[Santo66]

The level of aversion is solely dependent on the dog, not the equipment. Some dogs find a flat collar highly aversive and some dogs find prong collars mildly aversive at best, some not at all. This is why people need to read their dogs and not just have preconceived notions about equipment. Some dogs will bash and scrape their faces bloody with a 'gentle' head halter because they find them so aversive.

Prong collars can also be used solely in reinforcement based training.

Learn to read your dog, it will get your further in training and you'll spend less money on marketing and gimicks.

You are totally correct Nekhbet I agree, but you are quoting extreme ends of the spectrum. I can recall ONE dog in thousands where a flat collar caused a serious aversive, unlikely in most cases. I have been bitten by ONE dog from a prong collar correction who came back at me from the aversion, another extreme unlikely in the majority. It's highly unlikely anyone would switch to a prong collar to train a dog finding a flat collar highly aversive, in reality it's the opposite of that, dog doesn't respond to flat collar correction so a more aversive collar is implemented for that dog's threshold. Quoting extreme case possibilities I don't think is really helpful for people making an informed decision on equipment IMHO?

[Nekhbet]

You are totally correct Nekhbet I agree, but you are quoting extreme ends of the spectrum. I can recall ONE dog in thousands where a flat collar caused a serious aversive, unlikely in most cases. I have been bitten by ONE dog from a prong collar correction who came back at me from the aversion, another extreme unlikely in the majority. It's highly unlikely anyone would switch to a prong collar to train a dog finding a flat collar highly aversive, in reality it's the opposite of that, dog doesn't respond to flat collar correction so a more aversive collar is implemented for that dog's threshold. Quoting extreme case possibilities I don't think is really helpful for people making an informed decision on equipment IMHO?

But it's not extreme - I've seen plenty of dogs that go into shutdown or complete panic when a flat collar is put on. As for being nailed by correcting a dog with a prong, that means it wasn't a correction it was too low to stop the behavior and it redirected. That can happen on a lot of equipment and I've seen it again happen to a few people because the correction is under threshold and the dog is already wound up.

As for your scenario, if the dog found it more acceptable in a prong collar and learned better then the flat collar why not? I am training a rottweiler at the moment that goes into shutdown mode in a flat collar so easily, yet on a correction chain is happy and wagging it's tail and we don't get that shutdown. On a sporn harness it acts absolutely ridiculously and it's direction cannot be controlled, all it does it pull against it and it's owners. Horses for courses, you say I can't make assumptions and use outliers but you're horribly averaging equipment beyond belief.

Saying the equipments aversiveness is up to the dog is not the extreme end of the spectrum it's reality. For every dog. You can't rate equipment over the entire canine species because the dog decides what it likes and doesn't like. I have a dog that originally panicked and ran/pissed in terror if you made a happy voice to praise her, whereas the deeper the male voice the more she was relaxed and happy to be around them.

Through training we can sometimes change the level of aversion the dog finds the equipment be that one way or another. A dog can hate a prong and learn to love it, or enjoy a flat collar and learn to spite it.

[Santo66]

You are totally correct Nekhbet I agree, but you are quoting extreme ends of the spectrum. I can recall ONE dog in thousands where a flat collar caused a serious aversive, unlikely in most cases. I have been bitten by ONE dog from a prong collar correction who came back at me from the aversion, another extreme unlikely in the majority. It's highly unlikely anyone would switch to a prong collar to train a dog finding a flat collar highly aversive, in reality it's the opposite of that, dog doesn't respond to flat collar correction so a more aversive collar is implemented for that dog's threshold. Quoting extreme case possibilities I don't think is really helpful for people making an informed decision on equipment IMHO?

But it's not extreme - I've seen plenty of dogs that go into shutdown or complete panic when a flat collar is put on. As for being nailed by correcting a dog with a prong, that means it wasn't a correction it was too low to stop the behavior and it redirected. That can happen on a lot of equipment and I've seen it again happen to a few people because the correction is under threshold and the dog is already wound up.

As for your scenario, if the dog found it more acceptable in a prong collar and learned better then the flat collar why not? I am training a rottweiler at the moment that goes into shutdown mode in a flat collar so easily, yet on a correction chain is happy and wagging it's tail and we don't get that shutdown. On a sporn harness it acts absolutely ridiculously and it's direction cannot be controlled, all it does it pull against it and it's owners. Horses for courses, you say I can't make assumptions and use outliers but you're horribly averaging equipment beyond belief.

Saying the equipments aversiveness is up to the dog is not the extreme end of the spectrum it's reality. For every dog. You can't rate equipment over the entire canine species because the dog decides what it likes and doesn't like. I have a dog that originally panicked and ran/pissed in terror if you made a happy voice to praise her, whereas the deeper the male voice the more she was relaxed and happy to be around them.

Through training we can sometimes change the level of aversion the dog finds the equipment be that one way or another. A dog can hate a prong and learn to love it, or enjoy a flat collar and learn to spite it.

Reality is: If you want to walk your dog in a public place you need some form of equipment and you obviously have to select something and begin somewhere in order to see where the dog is at to begin with. If you can tell what equipment to use for a particular dog before taking the dog for a spin, you are better than me Nekhbet. Having said that, I have reached the letterbox from the front door on a flat collar and swapped it for a prong after a big boisterous confident bundle has tried to modify my shoulder socket :laugh:

The point I am making is you have to begin somewhere with something before you can make an informed decision on what equipment may be best suited to the particular dog. The dog most certainly determines equipment selection which you don't know until you try something first and see what happens.