nawnim Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) Hi, I wonder if some of the knowledgeable dolers who contribute to this forum could help me. I have been reading a lot of dog books lately, (Suzanne Clothier, Brenda Aloff, Patricia McConnell, and currently Leslie McDevitt) and they all tell me that a dog who yawns and licks its lips is stressed. I have a 5yo mixed breed (she weighs 10 kilos and looks like Hairy MacLary so it is difficult to read her body language) who often yawns and licks her lips when she is sitting on my knee. I do not hug her around the neck, stroke the top of her head, and rarely pat her on her back when she is on my knee. I usually stroke under her neck or her tummy. When she yawns and licks her lips I stop touching her altogether. Am I making her stressed? I am often an uptight person and she is an anxious dog. A vet in Canberra who specialises in dog's behaviour issues told me she has a working dog temperament. She seems to like sitting on my knee and often she initiates the contact and sometimes I pat my knee and she leaps up obligingly. Sometimes she just yawns before she lies down, but on my knee she is both yawning and licking her lips. Sometimes she licks me as well. Some would say she is kissing me but I don't encourage this. Sometimes on my knee she will lie back against me, put her head against my chest, and go to sleep which I love. Usually she gets down of her own accord or I put her down because I have to do something else. Is my dog stressed and if so am I causing it? Edited June 27, 2013 by nawnim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal1 Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 If your dog is stressed I would think that along with the Yawning/Licking you would be able to feel a tensing of her body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nawnim Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Thanks for this suggestion. I am not aware of any tensing but I will look out for it. ETA when I think about it she is always physically tense watching out and listening for any intruders that might dare to come on to her property. When she lies back against me I am aware of the lovely relaxed body. So yes I would say she is tense but that is normal for her. Edited June 28, 2013 by nawnim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 To be honest we don't know for sure. They are often described as calming signals but I'm not entirely comfortable with that description. Sometimes it seems to be a release of anxiety in - you will see a dog yawn and shake and then appear to relax. Context is really important with these behaviours too. What I see in shelters and training classes and dog competitions may well be different to dogs in other scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nawnim Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 Turid Rugaas describes both yawning and licking the nose as calming signals and I think the yawn by itself before she settles down is a calming signal, but the yawn and nose lick together puzzle me and she does not settle afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) . Edited June 28, 2013 by megan_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I think it would be more accurate to call them signs of conflict. Conflict could be as simple as she needs to bring her arousal down to lay still and enjoy the cuddles. If you're ever in doubt just stop and see if she tries to reinitiate contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nawnim Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Thankyou Corvus. This may be true. She is a very alert high energy dog. I will have to observe her more closely. I can't see her eyes because of her hair Edited June 28, 2013 by nawnim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 The old pug we have sits there and licks a bit, she's staring off into dream land and plonks straight down asleep :laugh: seems to be an old habit. Frankly I wouldn't be worrying too much, if the dog is comfortable and not stiff as a board, just give her gentle pats and enjoy her. Look too deep into things you just worry yourself more over really nothing. Dogs are not cut and dry, if they all fit into the same mold we wouldn't have so many theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Thankyou Corvus. This may be true. She is a very alert high energy dog. I will have to observe her more closely. I can't see her eyes because of her hair I have attached a photo. Do her a favour and trim the hair around her eyes regularly. If you can't see her eyes, it must be hard for her to see through her hair too. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I think there is a variation of yawning and licking that means "relaxed dog". It would depend a bit on what she's doing with her gaze and how relaxed her mouth and eyes are. Or she's doing all that because she wants you to relax. Ie it's something a dog will do to try and calm down their owner or another dog. I am often an uptight person and she is an anxious dog. You could be in a feedback loop - your dog notices your anxiety so she does calming signals to try to calm you down, and you get more uptight because you think that means she's anxious, so your dog tries harder to calm you down. Maybe you could try some relaxation exercises and slow breathing and not staring at your dog quite so studiously and see what happens (out of the corner of your eye). You can try mimicking some of the yawning and licking (and looking away and sniffing the ground) too and see what happens (that can have quite amusing results). I play a game with my dog where I face her and square up and stare at her and take a few stalking steps at her, and then I turn side on to her and crouch a bit, and pretend like I'm about to bolt. Sometimes I do a bit of licky yawny when I turn side on too. Usually sucks her right in up to me and often gets a play invite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I have a dog not dissimilar. She is always jumping up on your lap and standing on top of you - all the while licking her lips. I think our dogs are often (as Corvus said) in a state of conflict. They want to interact with us for 'cuddle time' because they have found in rewarding, but they also want to reassure us that they mean no harm while they're being 'on top of us'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nawnim Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Thankyou Corvus. This may be true. She is a very alert high energy dog. I will have to observe her more closely. I can't see her eyes because of her hair I have attached a photo. Do her a favour and trim the hair around her eyes regularly. If you can't see her eyes, it must be hard for her to see through her hair too. :) Sorry but I do trim around her eyes. One of the problems is that her eyes are the same colour as her hair. In that photo I can see her eyes quite clearly and I am aware of changes in their colour and sparkle. Possibly not a good photo so I will remove it. ETA In the above post I meant I can't see her eyes from the side because of the hair. She has very dark eyes almost black. Edited June 28, 2013 by nawnim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nawnim Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 I have been observing my dog overnight and I would say she yawns her pleasure about what is happening to her. She licks her lips and yawns when she is excited and pleased about the world around her. She is showing no other signs of stress and I think the experts are wrong. A dog yawning and licking its lips does not always mean the dog is stressed. Maybe Corvus is right and there is some conflict. She finds it difficult to relax and be happy. Mrs RB I am not looking into her eyes. She is sitting on my knee and I am watching the television and I would like to think I am relaxed. I can only see her head from the side, Because of the hair I cannot see her lips. Her ears are expressive though. When she settles I can tell from her ears if she has closed her eyes or if she is still alert. When I woke up this morning I turned the radio on and she jumped up on the bed to be with me. She then yawned about four or five times, licking her lips in between. Maybe she was in conflict because I don't usually allow her on my bed. So Leema I agree with your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 The old pug we have sits there and licks a bit, she's staring off into dream land and plonks straight down asleep That's probably a transition behaviour. :) Some (maybe many??) displacement behaviours double as transition behaviours - which is a behaviour that comes out when an animal is shifting from one kind of activity to another. It kind of hints at the broader meaning of these little behaviours like lip licking. Lip licking is probably quite predictive in that sense. My brain seems to think it's predictive after spending many many hours watching dogs in minute detail and recording everything they do. I'm not really comfortable with the term "calming signal", either. Sometimes it looks like the dogs are deliberately using these signals, but I personally think it's rare. Which is not to say they don't serve that purpose in some contexts, but maybe more passively than actively. For example if the dog is experiencing some sense of conflict in that they don't quite know what they are going to need to do in response to another dog approaching them, that may come out in their behaviour and be interpreted by the other dog as tension and possible volatility and if that dog wants none of that, they may respond conservatively with more submission or signals of no threat. The first dog wasn't sending a specific signal to the second dog to please be calm, but instead basically wearing their internal state for interpretation by the second dog. Here's an old video of my Erik being massaged when he was young. He is almost constantly licking his lips at first, and he tries to leave, I held him in place, but then the moment passed and a short while later he lay down and yawned. When I filmed it he wasn't in the mood for being massaged, so he had a lot of calming down to do, and it shows in the frequency and intensity of his 'calming signals'. I doubt he's deliberately signalling to anyone. More likely, the lip licking and so on is an outward sign of his internal state shifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nawnim Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) Thankyou Corvus for that video. My dog is not doing as much of the lip licking but more yawning but her behaviour is similar to your Erik's. The yawn in the middle was very similar to what she is doing. I am quite comfortable with what she is doing now. I was concerned that I was stressing her in the way that I was patting and stroking her. When she yawned or licked her lips I stopped petting her but now I will just continue. I believe that part of her behaviour is because of her temperament. She is usually very happy when she is doing something/working, and she probably finds it hard to switch off and relax. Edited June 29, 2013 by nawnim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nawnim Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) . Edited July 1, 2013 by nawnim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 She does look like a Hairy MacLary !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nawnim Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) Thanks Powerlegs, I think she does. I want to practise uploading photos so here is another photo of her with her pack taken by koalathebear. The dogs are waiting for the ball to be thrown. She is first in line. Edited July 1, 2013 by nawnim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 :) I love the way she looks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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