Vickie Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I'm so tired of people asking me why they can't just train their dog in agility and reward them with pats. I'm tired of people telling me their dog is not food or toy motivated. I'm tired of people telling me that their dog is high drive & doesn't need motivators. I'm tired of people with tiny stingy bits of crap food that they shove so hard at their dog that it has to step back to take it. Rant over! Thanks for listening :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 yes - and then the feed their dog a big bowl of food every night for doing nothing and wonder why their dogs "isn't food motivated". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I'm so tired of people asking me why they can't just train their dog in agility and reward them with pats. I'm tired of people telling me their dog is not food or toy motivated. I'm tired of people telling me that their dog is high drive & doesn't need motivators. I'm tired of people with tiny stingy bits of crap food that they shove so hard at their dog that it has to step back to take it. Rant over! Thanks for listening :) I hear ya sister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I wouldn't work for no pay, so why would my dog :) I certainly would expect more than a pat on the head...I think I would definitely work harder for a nice bit of chocolate than a smell of the empty box with a few crumbs :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 yes - and then the feed their dog a big bowl of food every night for doing nothing and wonder why their dogs "isn't food motivated". Yep! That's another one! And my other personal favourite...Shove that single piece of stingy crap food at your dog, turn away & ignore your dog & then complain that the dog wanders off distracted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Welllllll I do own a dog whose highest drive is pack drive :) Therefore pats and being told she is clever is worth more to her then food or toys. She likes food as a training reward but I can do without it. I wouldn't say she is particularly high drive for a BC but as she is a BC she is higher drive then a lot of dogs. I normally get told off because my food is too big though! The little poppet was doing beautiful off lead heeling at the beach today of her own accord just so I could tell her how lovely she is. :) That was when she wasn't running up to various people so they could pat her. She is really quite a strange dog! She is loving rally because I can tell her how marvelous she is. Amber is actually my first BC that will not just work because she loves me :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbly Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I reward waaaay too much. :laugh: On the up side of that, my dog adores being trained. I ask her if she's ready to work and she gets very excited about the impending cornucopia of reinforcement she knows she's about to get. XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 ABSOLUTELY!!!!!! Not enough people get it - reward and placement of reward. What it's all about. I think the best explanation I ever got was from (love him or hate him) Greg Derrett. If you reward your dog every second it only takes two seconds to deliver a penalty (no reward) if you reward every 30 seconds it takes a minute......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbly Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I think one thing people don't realise i s that if you keep rewarding a behaviour, eventually the behaviour becomes so inextricably associated with a reward the behaviour itself becomes rewarding too. So while I want ot stop rewarding a sit all the time, she loves sitting because to her it means treats. Crate is an awesome place to be because it's a well known spot for excess treat delivery. Someone very proudly told me they didn't use rewards for training. I felt so bad for the dogs, because I know those dogs are very heavily corrected on correction collars in the normal scheme of things, so training for them is going to be all about a choice between complying or being hurt. IDK, in that particular case the people really do love their dogs, and care for them. Just somewhere along the line they really bought into the whole "dominate your dog lest he dominate you" ethos, rather than realising that a human and a dog are a team, and both can and should love training. Just for those whose dogs adore tearing stuff to pieces for a reward and live near Tuggerah, the Salvos shop there has soft toys for sale, $1 for 10 of them! I got 20 of them, my dog is in heaven! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) JulesP - I can see where you're coming from (and I know your dogs!) but it's very hard to train distance, speed, obstacle independence, weaves and contacts for competition agility with praise alone. The only drive my Dally had for a good 18 months was micturition drive :D Finally I had him working for food as well as the opportunity to pee and his improvement was phenomenal. Along the way he developed a liking for praise. But he wouldn't tug. Hated it. Detested it. I didn't think it would make much difference but I persisted in teaching him just for the challenge of it. After a lot of work I had him working for tug, food and the opportunity to pee and his performance went through the roof. Now I can play full on feral tug with him whilst having a handful of food and he loves it. He will take food in the presence of tug. He loves a "good boy!" and a scratch under the chin. He will voluntarily give up pissing on trees and harass me until I train him. He will leave Em in full season and happily come training...a little bit more airhead than usual but keen as mustard. It's so cool to have multiple reward options depending on the situation. Same with Em - she has to fetch dummies and take food in the presence of game - something that rules her world like nothing else. She is not fussed on tug but I insist upon a short session before she gets to play agility with food as tug is not rewarding enough....yet :) Wobbly - can I suggest that you keep your reward rate high but push your criteria higher still! Edited June 24, 2013 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbly Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Ooh yes TSD - that's another one of my issues, incessantly rewarding sub par performances. I am hoping the chicken camp in a few weeks will give me a clearer concept of effective criteria raising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 micturition drive :D<br style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: verdana, tahoma, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(238, 242, 247);">LOVE it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) :laugh: Wobbly, at least you are aware! Glad you enjoyed that Pers - it's funny 'cause it's TRUE!!! Edited June 24, 2013 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbly Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Thats hilarious you can use opportunity to pee as a reward, is that a boy dog thing? That'd never cut it with Jarrah as a reward. On the other hand for mine, jumping in the car serves as pretty great reward, weird dog is weird, I guess she just sees it as a forerunner to a walk, rather than the peakhour traffic trap I regard it as. One of the biggest rewards I have at my disposal in the house is permission to sit on "The Forbidden Chair". She's not allowed in it under most circumstances, and it's piled with stuff so she can't get on it, but every so often when she's really outdone herself I've used it as an ultimate inhouse jackpot treat. Most delighted dog you could ever imagine once she's on the forbidden chair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Oh yeh - definitely a boy dog thing *rolls eyes* After an agility run, he gets any combination of heeling/spins/nose touches/tug/food/ and it always finishes with a good pi$$ing session. One of my favourite moments was finishing a run in Canberra (was staying with his breeders) and as I ran out of the ring with Zig on leash I realised I was needed in the next ring with Em. Handed Zig straight to his breeder who had a VERY SEXY Dalmatian girl on leash and Zig thought it was bloody Christmas.....needless to say we couldn't stay with them on the way back from the Agility Nationals because he brought their entire girls into season within a few days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) I get frustrated seeing people disengage from their dog when they are rewarding them, half heartedly rewarding the dog, then wondering why the dog doesn't engage enough with them or isn't putting in as much effort as the dog is capable of giving. IMHO we should share in the reward experience with our dogs so it becomes something we share together and enjoy together. Edited June 24, 2013 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Well I'll give anything a go. Micturition drive.....do I walk around with a tree and plonk it down when he's been good????????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I get frustrated seeing people disengage from their dog when they are rewarding them, half heartedly rewarding the dog, then wondering why the dog doesn't engage enough with them or isn't putting in as much effort as the dog is capable of giving. IMHO we should share in the reward experience with our dogs so it becomes something we share together and enjoy together. Yay for this and for Vickie's rant . And TSD .. Premack with micturition drive ... you should patent that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clover Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 That would really shit me at flyball comps, people would run their dogs and just grab them when they got back no praise, treat or reward of any sort :/. Is it really that hard to interact for just a moment. I am a bit "generous" with rewards and praise :laugh:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Rumour~ Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 That would really shit me at flyball comps, people would run their dogs and just grab them when they got back no praise, treat or reward of any sort :/. Is it really that hard to interact for just a moment. Agree with this, I find it always leads to problems in time. I know one person who is really proud that they don't 'have' to reward their dog at flyball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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